The Crossroads of a Brand

[904VT]

So, I found myself walking into a somewhat local AD this weekend in the US. I have to say it was quite disappointing to only see DJ41s in the case. Not even PM Professional series models. No Exp2s, not so much an Exp1 nor AirKing. OP well only grape dial, no white or black. Not one Sub to be seen regardless of metal.

I always thought half the fun of collecting Rolex was that it wasn't Patek Philipe. When I walk into an AD and see nothing interesting and the employees have no educated guess as to when you may be able to attain a Professional series watch, I begin to ask myself why do I still collect Rolex?

I have some reasons to continue collecting (brand history, simple robustness), but I have to say they are getting fewer and farer between.

As a WIS I wonder is Rolex heading down the wrong path....I have to say yes, but what do you all think?

[glamorama]

Yeah it’s horrible when the economy is running this fast, may there be a global recession soon...

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by glamorama

Yeah it’s horrible when the economy is running this fast, may there be a global recession soon...

This might be my favorite post ever.

[Snow-Dweller]

Here’s what I think...

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Snow-Dweller

Here’s what I think...

Beautiful Tudor Clive. I have to say I've been appreciating their newer offerings more and more

[Snow-Dweller]

Originally Posted by 904VT

Beautiful Tudor Clive. I have to say I've been appreciating their newer offerings more and more

I’m genuinely surprised by how much I’m enjoying this watch. I’ve been wearing my BLRO this weekend....but I look forward to putting the Tudor back on...

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Snow-Dweller

I’m genuinely surprised by how much I’m enjoying this watch. I’ve been wearing my BLRO this weekend....but I look forward to putting the Tudor back on...

That's my ideal GMT pair

Seems like a perfect weekday/tool and weekend/luxury pairing. And the WG BLRO has such a perfect, warm color in hand that has to be seen to truly appreciate.

[037]

It's frustrating to not get what we want right away or have to wait. But, the flip side is that the watch(es) that people currently own are holding value like never before.

My solution was to buy an older GMT to hold me over. Ironically it's been getting 100% wrist time and curbed my desire for the new one. If it shows up soon, great. If not, no big deal.

The grass isn't greener -- it's simply a different color.

[glamorama]

Tried that Tudor on yesterday, was very disappointed with the chunkiness. Hoping it comes in size of BB58 that might perhaps do it for me. But don’t think there is a substitute for the real thing. AD said they get 2 Rolex GMT Pepsi per month and 50 ppl on list so would be expecting 2yrs wait.

[T.Mas]

Originally Posted by glamorama

Tried that Tudor on yesterday, was very disappointed with the chunkiness. Hoping it comes in size of BB58 that might perhaps do it for me. But don’t think there is a substitute for the real thing. AD said they get 2 Rolex GMT Pepsi per month and 50 ppl on list so would be expecting 2yrs wait.

Yeah, the Tudor is a beast. I gotta say that somehow it works, though. Such a nice watch.

[jlovda]

Originally Posted by 904VT

So, I found myself walking into a somewhat local AD this weekend in the US. I have to say it was quite disappointing to only see DJ41s in the case. Not even PM Professional series models. No Exp2s, not so much an Exp1 nor AirKing. OP well only grape dial, no white or black. Not one Sub to be seen regardless of metal.

I always thought half the fun of collecting Rolex was that it wasn't Patek Philipe. When I walk into an AD and see nothing interesting and the employees have no educated guess as to when you may be able to attain a Professional series watch, I begin to ask myself why do I still collect Rolex?

I have some reasons to continue collecting (brand history, simple robustness), but I have to say they are getting fewer and farer between.

As a WIS I wonder is Rolex heading down the wrong path....I have to say yes, but what do you all think?

Before I comment I should state that I own a 5513 and 1675 purchased new so long ago I cannot rationalize their current value. It is a strange situation where someone like me, essentially a first time buyer willing to spend a fortune on a one in a lifetime purchase is up against people much wealthier than me upset that they can't find the exact 4th Rolex they are looking for to fill a collection. And, having the AD I went to telling me the Sub and GMT waiting list was basically only for their "regular" customers. I'm a steerage class passenger on the Titanic. I bought a black Exp II since it was the only one available and am loving more every day I wear it.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by jlovda

Before I comment I should state that I own a 5513 and 1675 purchased new so long ago I cannot rationalize their current value. It is a strange situation where someone like me, essentially a first time buyer willing to spend a fortune on a one in a lifetime purchase is up against people much wealthier than me upset that they can't find the exact 4th Rolex they are looking for to fill a collection. And, having the AD I went to telling me the Sub and GMT waiting list was basically only for their "regular" customers. I'm a steerage class passenger on the Titanic. I bought a black Exp II since it was the only one available and am loving more every day I wear it.

The Exp2 is a very underrated Rolex imho-congrats! Do you think Rolex is trying to position the Sub and GMT now like the Daytona? i.e. reward watches

[jlovda]

Originally Posted by 904VT

The Exp2 is a very underrated Rolex imho-congrats! Do you think Rolex is trying to position the Sub and GMT now like the Daytona? i.e. reward watches

There was another thread here querying Rolex owners about the subtle things they like about their models. There were some regarding the 216570 that I never saw or paid attention to. Made me appreciate the fanaticism of perfection Rolex puts into each piece regardless of price or model.

[lenfried29]

Originally Posted by 904VT

So, I found myself walking into a somewhat local AD this weekend in the US. I have to say it was quite disappointing to only see DJ41s in the case. Not even PM Professional series models. No Exp2s, not so much an Exp1 nor AirKing. OP well only grape dial, no white or black. Not one Sub to be seen regardless of metal.

I always thought half the fun of collecting Rolex was that it wasn't Patek Philipe. When I walk into an AD and see nothing interesting and the employees have no educated guess as to when you may be able to attain a Professional series watch, I begin to ask myself why do I still collect Rolex?

I have some reasons to continue collecting (brand history, simple robustness), but I have to say they are getting fewer and farer between.

As a WIS I wonder is Rolex heading down the wrong path....I have to say yes, but what do you all think?

IMO: Brand is gaining a lot more popularity. This is exactly why there is a shortage of the Rolex watches. And hard to get Rolex watch driving even more desire for people who was looking for the watch other than Rolex but because of desirability and skyrocketing prices going with the Rolex brand.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by lenfried29

IMO: Brand is gaining a lot more popularity. This is exactly why there is a shortage of the Rolex watches. And hard to get Rolex watch driving even more desire for people who was looking for the watch other than Rolex but because of desirability and skyrocketing prices going with the Rolex brand.

Disagree. The reason there is a shortage is Rolex wants it that way. Don’t think for a second that a company as experienced and successful as Rolex couldn’t be cranking out more pieces. It’s all part of the marketing strategy. They spend millions in advertising dollars to keep creating the allure, then they make sure the product stays in high demand by keeping cases empty.
It’s all by design.

[jlovda]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

Disagree. The reason there is a shortage is Rolex wants it that way. Don’t think for a second that a company as experienced and successful as Rolex couldn’t be cranking out more pieces. It’s all part of the marketing strategy. They spend millions in advertising dollars to keep creating the allure, then they make sure the product stays in high demand by keeping cases empty.
It’s all by design.

If these movements and watches are truly made largely by hand it would be very difficult to enlarge the workforce of highly trained individuals in a short period of time. They would have to steal employees from other high end watchmakers in the French part of Switzerland. From what I have heard, Rolex makes (a SWAG) about a million watches a year. If there is enough demand, you can raise prices or hold back availability while production increments upward in small steps.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by jlovda

If these movements and watches are truly made largely by hand it would be very difficult to enlarge the workforce of highly trained individuals in a short period of time. They would have to steal employees from other high end watchmakers in the French part of Switzerland. From what I have heard, Rolex makes (a SWAG) about a million watches a year. If there is enough demand, you can raise prices or hold back availability while production increments upward in small steps.

What makes you think they would have to enlarge the workforce? You are making an assumption that they are operating at maximum capacity. I don’t think so....it’s manufactured scarcity, and it’s working.

[lenfried29]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

What makes you think they would have to enlarge the workforce? You are making an assumption that they are operating at maximum capacity. I don’t think so....it’s manufactured scarcity, and it’s working.

It seems like you know exactly what Rolex strategy is. In fact you're assuming as anybody else on this forum.

[exador]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

The reason there is a shortage is Rolex wants it that way. Don’t think for a second that a company as experienced and successful as Rolex couldn’t be cranking out more pieces. It’s all part of the marketing strategy. They spend millions in advertising dollars to keep creating the allure, then they make sure the product stays in high demand by keeping cases empty.

Nope. This from a member who actually contacted Rolex Corporate in Geneva:

Originally Posted by Pol1

At the end of July I got in contact with (Rolex) by email. My intention, as a great admirer of the brand, was to let them know my frustration, regarding the scarcity of some professional steel models at the AD while at the grey marked there are lots of them but at unrealistic prices.
They asked me to ring them up or give them my personal number to call me back. And so they did almost immediately. We had a quite long conversation about the problem... The man on the phone told me they are very conscious of the phenomenon and that they are trying to do everything possible to stop that unbalanced situation. That they are continuously trying to find measures to strengthen the sales procedures to follow by the AD's.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by exador

Nope. This from a member who actually contacted Rolex Corporate in Geneva:

Come on man! You believe that? You think they would actually admit and say “well, the reality is that dealer cases being empty is good for us. We could make more, but this strategy seems to be working.”
Geez....this is a privately held company, they don’t have to admit or disclose anything.

[Kippers]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

Disagree. The reason there is a shortage is Rolex wants it that way. Don’t think for a second that a company as experienced and successful as Rolex couldn’t be cranking out more pieces. It’s all part of the marketing strategy. They spend millions in advertising dollars to keep creating the allure, then they make sure the product stays in high demand by keeping cases empty.
It’s all by design.

I totally agree. I have bought some desirable Rolexs over the past couple of years. It's a ploy. It's about who you know. ADs are not placing the ss sports watches (or other desirable pieces) in the shop window display. They seem to be selling covertly to a selective audience, in my view to further increase demand. It could be misconstrued that Rolex are concerned that watches do not get in to the hands of resellers. Last purchase I had my warranty card withheld, stickers removed, refusal to supply me the plastic coffin contrary to last experiences of not having any of the above, oh and two be offered the new Pepsi once the dust had settled......

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[Texasjim]

Originally Posted by lenfried29

IMO: Brand is gaining a lot more popularity. This is exactly why there is a shortage of the Rolex watches. And hard to get Rolex watch driving even more desire for people who was looking for the watch other than Rolex but because of desirability and skyrocketing prices going with the Rolex brand.

In my opinion, I don’t think it’s a popularity thing. If production stayed the same, then AD’s would get the normal inventory as they have historically seen, but sell out sooner. This is not the case. My AD hasn’t been getting near the inventory in sports watches that they are used to seeing. I would interested in seeing if more Rolex Authorized Dealers have been established compared to AD’s who dropped the brand. If we see there is no marked gain in dealers, then I believe the drought is due to Rolex is holding back.

[lenfried29]

Originally Posted by Texasjim

In my opinion, I don’t think it’s a popularity thing. If production stayed the same, then AD’s would get the normal inventory as they have historically seen, but sell out sooner. This is not the case. My AD hasn’t been getting near the inventory in sports watches that they are used to seeing. I would interested in seeing if more Rolex Authorized Dealers have been established compared to AD’s who dropped the brand. If we see there is no marked gain in dealers, then I believe the drought is due to Rolex is holding back.

The demand of Rolex watches are skyrocketing around the world, not only locally by you. Published statistics shows that demand increased around the world especially in Chiana and S.Korea by over 30%. It's supply and demand.

[DoctorA]

Originally Posted by 904VT

So, I found myself walking into a somewhat local AD this weekend in the US. I have to say it was quite disappointing to only see DJ41s in the case. Not even PM Professional series models. No Exp2s, not so much an Exp1 nor AirKing. OP well only grape dial, no white or black. Not one Sub to be seen regardless of metal.

I always thought half the fun of collecting Rolex was that it wasn't Patek Philipe. When I walk into an AD and see nothing interesting and the employees have no educated guess as to when you may be able to attain a Professional series watch, I begin to ask myself why do I still collect Rolex?

I have some reasons to continue collecting (brand history, simple robustness), but I have to say they are getting fewer and farer between.

As a WIS I wonder is Rolex heading down the wrong path....I have to say yes, but what do you all think?

Whatever Rolex is doing is actually yielding the very opposite of what you’re saying. With more scarce models, people jump on a watch they wouldn’t have considered if it was available in cases
How many times do we read about an “incoming” for someone who got offered a subC or a SD43 and they ended up buying because of the simple rarity of the watch while admitting they weren’t even looking to buy one

I agree with you that it’s annoying I can’t get the watch I want when I want it but from Rolex perspective they’re getting what they want!!
I believe the pendulum has to settle somewhere in the middle eventually!!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I always thought half the fun of collecting Rolex was that it wasn't Patek Philipe. When I walk into an AD and see nothing interesting and the employees have no educated guess as to when you may be able to attain a Professional series watch, I begin to ask myself why do I still collect Rolex?

sounds like when i used to collect baseball cards. There were always a few that were harder to get than others. I ended up with a mountain of cards to get the one i was after, and I'm sure the store i bought them from loved it. This is just more expensive, but i think people are actually buying more stuff.

[hitman23]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

sounds like when i used to collect baseball cards. There were always a few that were harder to get than others. I ended up with a mountain of cards to get the one i was after, and I'm sure the store i bought them from loved it. This is just more expensive, but i think people are actually buying more stuff.

yes, but what happened to the baseball card hobby

my mattingly rookie cards are worth 2 bucks now

[Pol1]

This is an article which appeared in the "nrc.nl" (daily newspaper in the Netherlands) of April 2015.

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2015/04/18...84777-a1010383

I believe that what we experience now adays in connection with the scarcity of some Rolex models, must be the result of such like situations.
As a Belgium, more specifically Flemisch citizen, I did my best to translate this article in my best English.

"
Jeweler Schaap and Citroen suspected of fraud

Jewelers sell exclusive watches with high discounts to dealers with criminal contacts. Through this sale via the back door, watches end up in large numbers in the underworld . According to research by the NRC (daily newspapaer in the Netherlands).
Police confirm the procedure and sees jewelers and watch dealers turn up more often in criminal investigations : "We see that jewelers and traders are drawn into the background and somehow or other will facilitate criminals much more than just criminal laundering," according to Wilbert Paulissen, head of the National Investigation. Jewelers have made themselves dependent in recent years from the merchants. They are annually obliged by well-known and popular brands like Rolex, Cartier and Audemars Piguet to buy more and other watches than they can actually sell. If they do not agree with the requirements, they can forget their dealership and lose a lot of customers.”
"Nearly half of all watches in this market is coming from Rolex," says director Mark van Nieuwkerk of the jewelry store "Schaap and Citroen". Jewelers therefore often work with regular traders who are willing to buy less popular or older models against discounts up to 30 percent. In return the traders want the scarce and highly sought models on which customers of the shop sometimes have to wait for years.
"Schaap and Citroen" in his own words works with five or six of those type of traders.
Yesterday, this newspaper announced that the jewelry store, a manager of the company and one of their major fixed operators are suspected by the public procecutor of tax evasion with exclusive watches.
"Schaap and Citroen" also wouldn’t have report large cash payments on time, which is legally obliged.
Another watch trader also came into conflict with the law.
Against the “Gooi” (Netherlands) businessman Mustafa Y., there has been a demand of seven years in a criminal case about large shipments of cocaine in Belgium. In the Netherlands, he is suspected of money laundering. Mustafa Y. is friends with the head of cash management of the "Gassan Jewelry" store.
Owner Benno Leeser of “Gassan Watches and Juwelry” says Y. annually buys for 750,000 euros of Rolex watches with him. Sources report that Y. can buy those Rolexes watches at a discont of 25 percent. He not only buys its watches at “Gassan”, but also at “Pijnenburg Jewelers” in Eindhoven. The company does not want to respond.
"

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by 904VT

As a WIS I wonder is Rolex heading down the wrong path....I have to say yes, but what do you all think?

They sell everything they make.

How can that be wrong?

[Tepeter1]

I have always wanted a Rolex Pepsi GMT. As I got older and became able and willing to buy the watch I started looking and comparing the GMT to the GMT II. While I was looking and deciding what exactly I wanted over the last three years prices have gone up almost 30% minimum. I kept trying to justify the increase and then Tudor pops out the GMT that checks all the blocks I want checked. It is a different watch, but it stirs all the emotions the Rolex has for years. I don’t really care about the price difference, what did it for me is that I absolutely refuse to pay the 30% premium imposed by the market. I wouldn’t have minded paying 100% more for the Rolex, but I am not paying 130% more.

I don’t over pay for real estate, cars, personal luxury item or other things I collect. Markets ebb and flow, there are peaks and valleys. I as a matter of course don’t buy things when I think they are over priced whether it be land, stocks or watches. Interestingly enough after having owned this Tudor GMT. I don’t think I would buy the Rolex GMT at market price three years ago if given the opportunity today unless I intended to flip it.

Just my opinion. I still love Rolex and I don’t judge. I would buy a WG BLRO if it made sense for me. It just doesn’t.


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[|404|]

Tbh, I imagine its frustrating to AD's...

Can you imagine how many times they have to say "Sorry sir, we dont have that model in stock. There is a waiting list"

Or some variation of that...

Plus customers must walk out all the time without the watches they want, and most of them are not forum obsessed watch junkies like us. They will go splurge their money somewhere else.

I dont think its great marketing for Rolex either, all the shelves looking bare etc..