Chance To Purchase an "M" Serial Coke

[krattzz]

Hi all and Happy New Year!!! I would like your comments on a potential purchase of a GMT Coke "M" serial NIB with card already filled in and what you think this is worth? Please IM me and I can tell you what the offer price is but I would like some feedback on your thoughts on pricing and being the last of a series. (See pic). Best, Mark

[padi56]

Lets get thing straight first the M is just a date letter, just for the year the case was stamped nothing more nothing less.And if its NIB if you pay less than list price you have a good deal.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by padi56

Lets get thing straight first the M is just a date letter, just for the year the case was stamped nothing more nothing less.And if its NIB if you pay less than list price you have a good deal.

Agree....if it's under $6k, then it's a good deal IMO considering it would likely have the 3186 new movement which has been commanding a premium.

I just traded for a mint Z series and couldn't justify spending more $$$ for the M/3186.

Good luck!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Agree....if it's under $6k, then it's a good deal IMO considering it would likely have the new 3186 movement which has been commanding a premium.

I just traded for a mint Z series and couldn't justify spending more $$$ for the M/3186.

Good luck!

Would hardly call the 3186 a new movement,its just a slightly modified 3185. And has not proved to be any more accurate,just so it seems slightly better time zone adjustment

[krattzz]

I can't tell by the pic but this seems to have the original dial and not the error one correct? There seems to be a lot of hype about this error dial which is not an error but dealers are trying to cash in on them as I saw one on ebay for like 10k.

[padi56]

Its not a error just a different font style nothing more nothing less.

[rolexgiants]

so i guess if i can buy a gmt red/black..... brand new Z serial for 5000.00.... thats a great deal????

[rolexgiants]

so i guess if i can buy a gmt red/black..... brand new Z serial for 5000.00.... thats a great deal????

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by rolexgiants

so i guess if i can buy a gmt red/black..... brand new Z serial for 5000.00.... thats a great deal????

With the Z-series you may get the 3185 movement, but with the M-series you will get the 3186 movement with the Blue Parachrom spring.

I hope I'm right on the above!!

[krattzz]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

With the Z-series you may get the 3185 movement, but with the M-series you will get the 3186 movement with the Blue Parachrom spring.

I hope I'm right on the above!!

Yes, and its in the 6's which means it is nearer to the end of the serial numbers for the M, then they stopped making them. I would assume it has the 3186 so I need to ask.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by krattzz

Yes, and its in the 6's which means it is nearer to the end of the serial numbers for the M, then they stopped making them. I would assume it has the 3186 so I need to ask.

Well, if you can somehow be 100% sure that it's fitted with the 3186 calibre, then buy it!!

Good luck - JJ

[krattzz]

I would say if it were NIB that it would be a good deal and you can IM me who is selling this:)

[2careless]

If it is a "M" serial, most likely it has the 3186 movement. If you can physically handle the piece, check if it passes the "wiggle" test. This has been discussed ad infinitum here over the past year that you can search, also, Sheldon's website has in depth information on this topic http://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.htm

Concur with others - $6k for a M serial GMT2 is a good price nowadays.

[karmatp]

I would never pay $6000 for a M serial GMT II, why would anybody. I have two Z serial GMT's and I paid $4200 for one and $4300 for the other, do the math. By no means should a M serial be selling for $1800 more, it is seriously ridiculous. 40 years down the road they will be all worth the same, just because one has a blue hairspring will not make it worth more. Think about it, $1800 for a blue hairspring that is no more accurate than the time proven 3185 movement. This is all false hype, there is no such thing as a error dial either, Rolex has used 3 different fonts with the II, and the ll or stick has been around for years. I find it so irritating when people are trying to cash in and say they have a error dial, seriously WTF, do people really think Rolex will produce a dial that has a error on it for years. I totally think people are getting scammed by paying more for a new hairspring, it's the same movement with a very minor change, why would a serious collector even care. The 3186 started with the late Z serials, I have one, it came with the new books highlighting the 3186 but mine has the 3185. I knew this when I bought it, and I would have not paid a cent more if it had the 3186. I could easily go buy a Explorer II which has the 3186 and put in in my late Z, nobody would know, would that make my late Z worth more, heck no. Why haven't the Explorer II's with the 3186 commanded a premium? All those M's have it, like I said it all BS hype. I am going on a rant I know, sorry for that, I can just see another guy getting screwed by a seller saying his watch is RARE and Collectible, BS, it's a classic GMT II. They will all get lots of attention 50 years from now from collectors, and a very minor tweak in a movement will make no difference so save some cash now and buy a one a couple of years older and save a few grand.

[krattzz]

Originally Posted by karmatp

I would never pay $6000 for a M serial GMT II, why would anybody. I have two Z serial GMT's and I paid $4200 for one and $4300 for the other, do the math. By no means should a M serial be selling for $1800 more, it is seriously ridiculous. 40 years down the road they will be all worth the same, just because one has a blue hairspring will not make it worth more. Think about it, $1800 for a blue hairspring that is no more accurate than the time proven 3185 movement. This is all false hype, there is no such thing as a error dial either, Rolex has used 3 different fonts with the II, and the ll or stick has been around for years. I find it so irritating when people are trying to cash in and say they have a error dial, seriously WTF, do people really think Rolex will produce a dial that has a error on it for years. I totally think people are getting scammed by paying more for a new hairspring, it's the same movement with a very minor change, why would a serious collector even care. The 3186 started with the late Z serials, I have one, it came with the new books highlighting the 3186 but mine has the 3185. I knew this when I bought it, and I would have not paid a cent more if it had the 3186. I could easily go buy a Explorer II which has the 3186 and put in in my late Z, nobody would know, would that make my late Z worth more, heck no. Why haven't the Explorer II's with the 3186 commanded a premium? All those M's have it, like I said it all BS hype. I am going on a rant I know, sorry for that, I can just see another guy getting screwed by a seller saying his watch is RARE and Collectible, BS, it's a classic GMT II. They will all get lots of attention 50 years from now from collectors, and a very minor tweak in a movement will make no difference so save some cash now and buy a one a couple of years older and save a few grand.

This seller is in no way telling me it’s an error dial. He's a trusted seller and the price he wants is $5700 and it's in the 6's for the M serial number. I do agree that I can save $1,200 by getting a Z and may just do that as I don't really care about the movement but considering the card is filled in, its not really NIB so its LNIB as my offer will be more around $5,400 then $5,700. If it had a clear card then ok but the card means a lot.

Also that puts me in the dilemma of purchasing new. I have a dealer who will give me 15% off and ship out of state to save sales tax so that's an option that is viable. It's just he does not have the coke or Pepsi GMT so I have to get the one I had, which was the GMT II C or the one I really want which is the GMT C TT.

[HDHNTER]

Originally Posted by karmatp

I would never pay $6000 for a M serial GMT II, why would anybody. I have two Z serial GMT's and I paid $4200 for one and $4300 for the other, do the math. By no means should a M serial be selling for $1800 more, it is seriously ridiculous. 40 years down the road they will be all worth the same, just because one has a blue hairspring will not make it worth more. Think about it, $1800 for a blue hairspring that is no more accurate than the time proven 3185 movement. This is all false hype, there is no such thing as a error dial either, Rolex has used 3 different fonts with the II, and the ll or stick has been around for years. I find it so irritating when people are trying to cash in and say they have a error dial, seriously WTF, do people really think Rolex will produce a dial that has a error on it for years. I totally think people are getting scammed by paying more for a new hairspring, it's the same movement with a very minor change, why would a serious collector even care. The 3186 started with the late Z serials, I have one, it came with the new books highlighting the 3186 but mine has the 3185. I knew this when I bought it, and I would have not paid a cent more if it had the 3186. I could easily go buy a Explorer II which has the 3186 and put in in my late Z, nobody would know, would that make my late Z worth more, heck no. Why haven't the Explorer II's with the 3186 commanded a premium? All those M's have it, like I said it all BS hype. I am going on a rant I know, sorry for that, I can just see another guy getting screwed by a seller saying his watch is RARE and Collectible, BS, it's a classic GMT II. They will all get lots of attention 50 years from now from collectors, and a very minor tweak in a movement will make no difference so save some cash now and buy a one a couple of years older and save a few grand.

+1 and props on the nice rant, lol
I'd take a NIB Z for $4200 ANY day over a 6K M

[krattzz]

So who has the NIB Z for $4,200? lol

[HDHNTER]

Originally Posted by krattzz

So who has the NIB Z for $4,200? lol

Apparently karmatp knows where to find them, I paid list -5% for my M from the AD.

[B Square]

An AD offered me an M series Coke, BNIB, back in Oct for $5K. At the time I was a uneducated WUS, not a WIS. Needless to say I turned it down

[WatchTimes]

If you want to know price why wouldnt you just look in the for sale forum
first and search on Fleabay to see what they have actually sold for.

Oh wait.... That would have taken a little effort on your part...

[moby33]

Originally Posted by JYogi

If you want to know price why wouldnt you just look in the for sale forum
first and search on Fleabay to see what they have actually sold for.

Oh wait.... That would have taken a little effort on your part...

Ouch...

[krattzz]

For one thing J Yogie I know more about Rolex watches then you think, have more connections, and also put lots of research into any purchases I make. My questions here were just what folks thought as this scenario is not cut and dry. If you would have started at the top of the post and took the time to read down you would have seen the progression of the conversation and me asking who has the Z for $4,200 was a bit of a joke. So before you come here and insult someone make sure you know what your talking about as this conversation included things like what’s NIB mean, what's the GMT dial error about, what's different and so special about a Z with a 3185 vs. an M with a 3186. I know where to go, what to do, and will eventually make my decision but I am not ignorant on where to look for pricing, who is trusted here, and what today's Rolex buying environment is. Thank you.

Originally Posted by JYogi

If you want to know price why wouldnt you just look in the for sale forum
first and search on Fleabay to see what they have actually sold for.

Oh wait.... That would have taken a little effort on your part...

[moby33]

Can't we all just get along...

[WatchTimes]

Well if you know so much you would know not every M has the 3186 and that there is no error in the dial (after all, you say you know so much but this has been gone over and over for months in here)

Regardless you are talking about a watch that is readily available and listed here and on Fleabay (Yes, M series and those people know enough to know if the one they are selling or looking at are a 3186 or not, not that that really matters nor does the fact its an M)

And all of your other questions about the 3186 have been covered and beaten to death in here...

As I said, try doing some research first before asking your ?'s Seriously, people here LOVE to help others out and answer their ?'s but when its been covered over and over and can easily be found doing a search or going through a few pages thats a little lazy....

Also, not posting the price and asking people to IM you for the price is quite childish... What, let me guess you were told you are getting an amazing deal and not to tell anyone about it....

I am done with this thread

NEXT!

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by JYogi

:

I am done with this thread

NEXT!

I guess you had one more in you. I am laughing with you Jeremy, not at you, very funny.

That's twice today you made me laugh.

[gmt master x]

Do it.

[karmatp]

I would watch the sales corner here. My wife just bought me a like new Z from HKperf, a trusted seller here, for the price I mentioned. I bought my other "coke" that is a late Z with open warranty card from another watch forum. Both my GMT's are damn near perfect if not perfect, at least in my eyes. Deals are out there, all I'm trying to do is make people informed that many sellers will prey on the less informed, with all this rare stick dial BS and it has a blue hairspring, now give me a extra $1500-$2000 for it. All these models were mass produced, doesn't matter what font it has on the dial or what color the hairspring is, they are all the same. You can find GMT II's that are pretty much new for around $4000-$4500, keep your eyes open and good luck.

Here are some pics., just because this thread needs some!

[2careless]

Originally Posted by karmatp

I would watch the sales corner here. My wife just bought me a like new Z from HKperf, a trusted seller here, for the price I mentioned. I bought my other "coke" that is a late Z with open warranty card from another watch forum. Both my GMT's are damn near perfect if not perfect, at least in my eyes. Deals are out there, all I'm trying to do is make people informed that many sellers will prey on the less informed, with all this rare stick dial BS and it has a blue hairspring, now give me a extra $1500-$2000 for it. All these models were mass produced, doesn't matter what font it has on the dial or what color the hairspring is, they are all the same. You can find GMT II's that are pretty much new for around $4000-$4500, keep your eyes open and good luck.

Here are some pics., just because this thread needs some!

I beg to differ. To most the blue spring has no substantial difference, to some it means the LAST of the 16710 and it is a differential. How much one judges the difference really depends on his/her perceptions.

Another perspective - Tasos had a NIB M 16710 for sale at like $4.3k range several months ago because he misplaced the papers. I don't think it was snapped up right away and was sitting there for a while. At that time frame the M 16710 was going for like $5.3k so is the papers worth $1k? If it's not worth $1k then why didn't it find a new home right away?

BTW, if Rolex didn't produce the last 16710 with 3186, would you seriously think that the 16710 with 3185 Z/M serial would go at $4.3k? People would be saying it's the LAST 16710, discontinued model, blah blah blah and won't discount. The 16710 with 3185 IS now the second best/last model of GMT2, close but no cigar. That's why it's cheap.

As to the argument of what it will be viewed in 30-40 years' time so whether it's 3185 or 3186 is "stuff all", I don't think a lot of us will live long enough to cash in our watches that time so that's a moot point to me. YMMV.

It's all perception mate.

[tubojunk]

Originally Posted by 2careless

It's all perception mate.

Finally someone said it, 3186 v 3185, stick vs non-stick, it doesn't mean a thing unless the buyer places value on that. And the value is all based on the buyer's perception of these characteristics, not you or me. If they want to pay more for it, great, if not good for them.

As for explorers not receiving any hype with 3186, it's simple. Explorers with 3186 are still in production while GMTs with 3186 aluminum bezel are discontinued.

[Tools]

Buying any 16710 at a premium is hype pricing, regardless of what movement or dial it has.

If history is any indication, then a few years down the road prices will stabilize and it is very unlikely that the 3186 (which is a 3185 with a different main mounting plate and a couple of moved gears) will make any difference at all.

Right now slick sellers are making a few extra bucks....it won't last long..