Dial Imperfections on Rolex Sunburst

[peterpl]

Hi All,

So I have been into Rolex for a long long time now and I've spent a crap load on their watches. I have pretty much owned every single model of Rolex there is except the Cellini range but what I wanted to vent about or I guess complain and see what others peoples opinions are is related to Rolex sunburst dials and the inherent problem they have with consistency and defects.

Take a look at these dials. Some of these pictures are of my watches and some are from various sources. I apologise if you are the owner of some of these watches I'm not trying to take away from your satisfaction but I want to highlight a certain defect that by the way Rolex has acknowledged to me and fixed numerous of my watches because of this.

I'm sure some of you guys have noticed scratches or inconsistent/scratched dials especially on sunburst ones.

I've circled in RED what I am talking about. Now I'm not sure about you guys but after paying 10s of thousands for watches I would expect a perfect dial especially on the sunburst which is not that hard to do. Especially if a $200 watch can get their sunburst right why cant Rolex?

I've seen many threads on this issue and RSC in 2 countries have confirmed to me its a flaw and they have replaced dials for me because of below issues.

This is why now every time I buy sunburst dials I always always triple check the sunburst patterns. You may think its small issue but I'm telling you if you photograph your watches a lot especially with a DLSR and at some angles these inconsistencies look real bad and look like scratches. As a owner as well once you see an imperfection you cant really "unsee" it. It just takes away from the pleasure of owning it.

What has annoyed me even more is that people who aren't even WIS and saw some pictures said to me "there is a scratch on the dial of that watch" which to me reinforces that fact that even non WIS can point out the flaws quite easily which is unacceptable quality control or manufacturing for a brand like Rolex.

Whats your opinion? I have heaps more pictures showing these imperfections but you get the idea.

[Drive]

I’m not going to look at any of mine now. :)

[J_1964]

Originally Posted by drive

i’m not going to look at any of mine now. :)

lol!

[214270Explorer]

Odd. That is a LOT of scratched dials.

[joli160]

If you want perfection you need a Grand Seiko
With Rolex it's not about the details more about the complete package.

[oldman2005]

Originally Posted by joli160

If you want perfection you need a Grand Seiko
With Rolex it's not about the details more about the complete package.

Rolex is not on the level as GS when it comes to dial or polish but Seiko marketing is not a same level as Rolex marketing.

[J!m]

Originally Posted by oldman2005

Rolex is not on the level as GS when it comes to dial or polish but Seiko marketing is not a same level as Rolex marketing.

Nail On Head

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by oldman2005

Rolex is not on the level as GS when it comes to dial or polish but Seiko marketing is not a same level as Rolex marketing.

Definitely true. Rolex marketing has always made it sound like they have the best CS. But in actuality they were selling an idea, that most people took hook line and sinker.

[Rocket launcher]

I would not worry once your over 50 you can't focus on small lines so won't see them anyway..your lucky to see the pointers on a silver handed rhodium sunburst dialed watch..

However if I owned the first watch the platinum light blue dialed daytona.I may have took that back ..it costs as much as a small house so would want perfection

[Tobias]

Hi peterpl, thanks for posting, I've never thought to look closely at these sunburst dials. Some of the hairline imperfections in the above photos are worse than others, and once you see them, you cannot unsee them! The DateJusts to me look particularly affected. Clearly Rolex is having a hard time getting these dials finished to perfection, but given the attention to detail, finish and quality control that I equate with Rolex - it does surprise me a little bit.

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by 214270Explorer

Odd. That is a LOT of scratched dials.

Thats not half the images I have. I've got plenty more showing these scratches. Even if you look at Instagram and online media heaps of guys posting images with clearly scratched dials.

Originally Posted by joli160

If you want perfection you need a Grand Seiko
With Rolex it's not about the details more about the complete package.

Yeah everyone says that - to be honest I just think its a cop out excuse. I even said this to one of the RSC's as one of the watchmakers were saying it was within tolerances. I said that is just a cop out for shoddy work and he got an opinion from another watchmaker who agreed with me that there was a mark on the dial. They replaced the dial under warranty.

Honestly at this price point you would expect sunburst lines to be done properly. I've owned IWC/Breitling/Panerai etc....NONE of the other brands have this issue in fact I have never seen any other brand have these inconsistencies since I started playing close attention to this fault and I look at and take high res pictures of all watches not only Rolex.

I've had it happen to me 3 times now on my sunburst dials.

Originally Posted by Tobias

Hi peterpl, thanks for posting, I've never thought to look closely at these sunburst dials. Some of the hairline imperfections in the above photos are worse than others, and once you see them, you cannot unsee them! The DateJusts to me look particularly affected. Clearly Rolex is having a hard time getting these dials finished to perfection, but given the attention to detail, finish and quality control that I equate with Rolex - it does surprise me a little bit.

Well that's the thing. I NEVER used check when I first started buying Rolex. I always took for granted that Rolex QC was the best especially the dial itself.

I actually accidentally stumbled upon this because it wasn't until I began taking photos of watches and posting them. It was then I noticed the marks, then I started checking other watches and HEAPS of them had them and the final straw was when a random commented on a photo and advised me the watch was scratched which then I realised I was not insane if a non WIS can notice it immediately.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by peterpl

Honestly at this price point you would expect sunburst lines to be done properly. I've owned IWC/Breitling/Panerai etc....NONE of the other brands have this issue in fact I have never seen any other brand have these inconsistencies since I started playing close attention to this fault and I look at and take high res pictures of all watches not only Rolex.

I disagree with this statement or even that your observations are comparable. None of those brands sells anything close to what Rolex sells, none of those brands has anything close to the number of sunburst dials that Rolex offers and none of those brands has a more vocal detail obsessed die hard following than Rolex.

I could walk into my local gym in Richardson Texas and ask twenty people what is an IWC watch and less than half would know the brand while all twenty would know what a Rolex is.

Just the other day someone posted a thread about the print variation on a Deepsea dial, because the new one is thicker in a way I wouldn't even notice unless I used obvious magnification. Look at the size of the Omega forums compared to Rolex forums or how much literature is available on just the Submariner and Sea-Dweller red dials.

I don't make excuses for the faults listed in your op... I would be livid if my Platona had a mark on the dial. However, let's not say no other manufacturer has these issues.
No other manufacturer equals Rolex in just about any metric.
Even Thierry Stern said he wishes he could understand and see the inside of Rolex manufacturing to understand how they put out such a quality product in such high numbers.
Well, this is how unfortunately, allowable tolerances.

Lastly, I would not accept these images as sound unrefuttable proof. Macro images captured at certain angles under certain varying degrees of light are and can be very decieving.

Just look at the pictures of the BLRO, purple pink, blue red...
I've given myself a heart attack with photos that showed a scratched bezel, cracked pearl or chipped crystal only to see it was just the angle and reflection.

In a court of law, I would firsts require to see those dials with the naked eye in natural light. If it can be seen under natural varying degrees of light by the naked corrected vision eye then I can attest their is a problem.

For the record, I'm not saying there isn't an issue, but what I am saying is that I don't believe Rolex has a QC issue. And this thread doesn't bring to light a huge passive Rolex conspiracy.
On those pm watches if true, I would expect more....otherwise, I am not staring at the watch through a loop or magnification. Nor is it exquisite art to stare at and scrutinize, it is just a watch.
For detailed scrutiny I'd venture off into fine boutique brands with production numbers less than a few thousand a year not close to a million.

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

I disagree with this statement or even that your observations are comparable. None of those brands sells anything close to what Rolex sells, none of those brands has anything close to the number of sunburst dials that Rolex offers and none of those brands has a more vocal detail obsessed die hard following than Rolex.

I could walk into my local gym in Richardson Texas and ask twenty people what is an IWC watch and less than half would know the brand while all twenty would know what a Rolex is.

Have you owned other brands? IWC do have many sunburst dials. I used to own a few actually as I loved Pilot watches. IWC 3777 Petite Prince, Ju Air and even 3878 standard dial all came with very deep sunburst dials and I personally never saw these inconsistencies on them. I'm also part of 3 different watch groups who have frequent gathering and one of them is a vivid and obsessed IWC fan. I get to handle many many of them with sunburst dials so my statements come from personal experience. That is all. Also what does people knowing the brand have anything to do with sunburst dial inconsistencies?

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

No other manufacturer equals Rolex in just about any metric.

I think you have rose colored glasses. Rolex is a very very good brand but please dont kid yourself saying no brand has anything on Rolex. Thats just a complete joke.

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

Lastly, I would not accept these images as sound unrefuttable proof. Macro images captured at certain angles under certain varying degrees of light are and can be very decieving.

These are not macro images. Yes they are zoomed but far from macros. Like I said in the posts before you can see these with the naked eye and I'm not the only one that can. There are numerous members participating in this thread that have had the same problems and have complained to RSC and once again RSC have come to the agreement that there is a problem and swapped out the dial. What is hard to understand about that? If the Manufacturer themselves are admitting to the fault why are you saying there is no fault?

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

For the record, I'm not saying there isn't an issue, but what I am saying is that I don't believe Rolex has a QC issue. And this thread doesn't bring to light a huge passive Rolex conspiracy.
On those pm watches if true, I would expect more....otherwise, I am not staring at the watch through a loop or magnification. Nor is it exquisite art to stare at and scrutinize, it is just a watch.

Confused here. Of course its true like I said 2 of those PM watches are mine and the rest are members participating in this thread or others on here. What do you mean IF TRUE? We didn't Photoshop the pictures. LOL

Secondly no loupe or magnification needed to see these scratches. You can see them all with the naked eye and the guys on here who have experienced this will attest to that fact.

Anyway the point of this thread really is to see how many other people have experienced this and due to the msgs and replies it seems there are a huge number of ppl who have experienced this not including the people I know that are not on TRF who also have experienced these issues. (i.e) members of the watch clubs I am part of.

Rolex themselves promote perfection on their dials. This is highlighting the fact that its far from the truth.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by peterpl

Rolex themselves promote perfection on their dials. This is highlighting the fact that its far from the truth.

Have you not seen the latest website updates Peter?

Clearly not Sunburst, but the same applies

[MUSTAQT]

Luckily I have a Smurf dial... Whew...

[Devildog]

There’s a massive one on that Milgauss between the 1 and 2 o’clock batons too.

I get that these images are blown up to significantly larger sizes and so appear worse than they would in reality but some are really bad. In my view if they can be seen with either perfect vision or corrected vision under any lighting then the dials are not acceptable. And many can.

However, Rolex advertises “perfection” in their dials. And therefore they should be perfect. There can be no argument over “acceptable tolerance”.

I’ve never owned a Rolex with a sunburst dial. Not sure I’d want to given the QC issues apparent with them.

[R G]

Wow, just came across this thread just now and saw the dials pictures you've posted.

I had a problem with my DJ41 dial which I had posted a thread about. You have actually included a photo of it on your original post.

I ended up getting a replacement from the AD, which was fine. After a few weeks of having it (and purposefully not staring at the dial too much) I eventually started seeing in in direct sunlight and I have to say, even the replacement has a 'line' on it's dial which is more prominent than the others, although nowhere near as significant as my previous watch and only if you catch it in the right light and angle. The other week I ended up taking it to Rolex in Kent to see what they'd say. They were really nice and welcoming, looked at it then and there and their technicians shined a load of different lights on it at different angles but it was well within the acceptable parameters. I was fine with their response and felt better for running it past them anyway.

It's clearly a common 'thing' that can be seen on a lot of the dials...

Now I'm not sure haha, should I go back and insist they change the dial even though it's minute? Is it worth having a brand new watch opened for this?

[enjoythemusic]

Simply send to RSC for warranty dial replacement.

[mistercoach32]

That would be insanely frustrating. I just checked my LVc and no scratches, thank goodness.

[Onikage]

I have no idea how many are yours but some might just be the owner's hair. In all seriousness every sunburst dial must be unique in how the reflective material is applied. I wouldn't be happy if it looks like a scratch however. Particularly on a Platona, which you would think had undergone more stringent QC given it's the price of a small island.

[Raku]

To be honest when I opened this thread I was expecting another OCD nonsence of some imperfection photographed through a microscope, like most of the posts around here.
But then I realized the OP's concern is quite legitimate, the consistancy of those flaws is scary.
I can admit that these watches are mass produced and have no Voutilainen level of finish, but how this those lines get past quality control?

[R G]

Originally Posted by Raku

To be honest when I opened this thread I was expecting another OCD nonsence of some imperfection photographed through a microscope, like most of the posts around here.
But then I realized the OP's concern is quite legitimate, the consistancy of those flaws is scary.
I can admit that these watches are mass produced and have no Voutilainen level of finish, but how this those lines get past quality control?

As someone that it’s happened to (mine was the DJ41 with silver dial) it has totally taken away the enjoyment of acquiring a new watch.

I’m a Rolex fan, but I don’t think their QC is any better than any other watch brands. You pay for the general quality and build, and whilst the finish is great overall, it’s not perfection, like they market the dials to be on their website.

[blue lion]

Originally Posted by Raku

To be honest when I opened this thread I was expecting another OCD nonsence of some imperfection photographed through a microscope, like most of the posts around here.
But then I realized the OP's concern is quite legitimate, the consistancy of those flaws is scary.
I can admit that these watches are mass produced and have no Voutilainen level of finish, but how this those lines get past quality control?

[Brew]

The champagne dial I'm wearing is fine, but I'm afraid to go check the two rhodium dials upstairs. They were fine before I opened this thread . . . .

[R G]

Originally Posted by Brew

The champagne dial I'm wearing is fine, but I'm afraid to go check the two rhodium dials upstairs. They were fine before I opened this thread . . . .

Mmmm I reckon if you put it under the right light at the right angle, you’d find a flaw on the sunburst on your champagne dial haha

[Brew]

Originally Posted by R G

Mmmm I reckon if you put it under the right light at the right angle, you’d find a flaw on the sunburst on your champagne dial haha

You wouldn't happen to have a loupe I might borrow?

[R G]

Originally Posted by Brew

You wouldn't happen to have a loupe I might borrow?

Hahaha

[phez]

Here is an interesting point. If you check out the Rolex wibsite and look at the 40mm YM with the dark rhodium dial, there appears to be the same fault between the 8 and 9

[TimingIsEverything]

I have seen this before many times. Completely unacceptable for the price a Rolex watch is. I keep hearing Grand Seiko is the best in the details department. However, I have seen the tolerances on GS's bracelets and clasps, as well as the finishing and I don't think GS even comes close to Rolex. Just my opinion. However, Rolex QC needs to step up their game.

[Fraz]

Originally Posted by TimingIsEverything

I have seen this before many times. Completely unacceptable for the price a Rolex watch is. I keep hearing Grand Seiko is the best in the details department. However, I have seen the tolerances on GS's bracelets and clasps, as well as the finishing and I don't think GS even comes close to Rolex. Just my opinion. However, Rolex QC needs to step up their game.

I've heard many times before that the "looseness" of GS bracelets is a design choice, the bracelets are meant to be slightly flexible rather than rigid, for improved confort. The same way an aluminium bezel is chosen over sapphire because it won't crack. But some may consider these excuses.

I own both GS and Rolex and tbh the only things I think Rolex has over GS is design and value retention. When you take only execution into consideration, GS is unbeatable imo. I can appreciate both, but as watches alone, considering only the product, my entry level GS is a better watch than any Rolex I've ever held (again imo, don't yell at me haha)