SubMariner Service Question

[Parksie]

Hi all,

This is my first post.

I have my 2003 Submariner booked in for service in Sydney and have the option of replacing the bezel insert.

However the service centre told me today that I would not be receiving the old bezel insert back when I pick up the watch.

I am interested to know if replacing the bezel insert has any affect on long term value way down the track?

I have attached a photo which shows that there are a few small scratches on the insert after 15 years if daily use.

Thanks.

[Dirt]

Welcome to the forum.

Leave it as it is unlees the small marks annoy you, but they're hardly noticeable as they are.
You may change it at this service and within a few weeks after getting it back, you may dent or mark the new one much worse.
Actually the watch is in very good condition and i wouldn't take the option of having the watch polished either.
Perhaps review it again for when the next service comes up.

[Parksie]

Thanks for this advice. Much appreciated.

Out of interest why wouldn't you have the watch polished?

Does the polishing also reduce the appeal or value of the watch?

I am really not sure how important keeping the watches originality is?

For example as this watch is a 2003 year and is already 15 years old, if I was to keep it in its original condition going forward does the original 2003 condition make it more appealing to collectors as the years progress?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Parksie

Thanks for this advice. Much appreciated.

Out of interest why wouldn't you have the watch polished?

Does the polishing also reduce the appeal or value of the watch?

I am really not sure how important keeping the watches originality is?

For example as this watch is a 2003 year and is already 15 years old, if I was to keep it in its original condition going forward does the original 2003 condition make it more appealing to collectors as the years progress?

A bezel change and a polish will have no effect on the value of your watch.Watches like the 16610 been in production since 1988 with only a few minor cosmetic changes.So over those years there must be several million of them in this world today.

[Dirt]

It may contribute to the future value, but probably not really given the model.
That is, unless you are famous like Steve Mcqueen.

Unless you are thinking of selling it in the future i probably wouldn't bother with polishing to keep it looking in original condition overall.
From the pic, it looks to be still in good nick overall.
Then on reflection it will come back looking nice and fresh if you do go for the polish job.
It's your first Rolex service and it's nice when they come back from the full spa treatment.
In that case i may be inclined to change the Bezel insert as well to keep the watch looking fresh and consistant overall.

One of my reasons for saying to leave it as is, is because it has a "flat 4" Bezel insert.
The watch is not a Kermit, but as it currently stands with people becoming much more aware of the flat 4 phenomenon it may affect the future value a little if kept as is.
In case you're not aware, "Flat 4" bezel inserts were only made for a short period of time in respect to this modern era of the 5 digit Subs. But i think you may be aware because your questions are centered around the issue.

How is the current condition of the bracelet?
Post a pic of it so we can better asses the condition.
But at the end of the day i would be inclined to leave the whole watch as it is.

[Parksie]

Nope not even related to McQueen!

I have no intention of selling the watch as its ear marked to be handed on to my son.

However what is of most interest to me and thanks for providing your insight is the fact that the watch has the Flat 4 bezel insert.

I had no idea about this at all until you mentioned this today.

If the Flat 4 insert in black is a rarity then I certainly would like to keep it so that this watch remains as it was when I purchased it back in 2003. The serial model is Y and therefore I can confirm year of manufacture according to Bobs Watches was actually 2002.

I also did some checking on google looking for Flat 4 bezels in black but couldn't find much.

There is a lot of info on Google about the Kermit Flat 4 bezel which is the LV series however very little about the 16610 series in Black with the Flat 4 bezel insert.

So the bottom line is I feel that i should keep the bezel in the event that it does in fact have some rarity due to the black colour.

Thanks very much for bring this to my attention otherwise I could have easily have let the Rolex service centre juste place it.

[s.m.b.]

I would leave it unpolished and keep the original bezel. Let your son decide if he wants to service the "history" out of the watch. If my father were to give me a watch, I'd want the years he wore it to be visible, making the watch unique.

[Sweetswisssteel]

Originally Posted by s.m.b.

I would leave it unpolished and keep the original bezel. Let your son decide if he wants to service the "history" out of the watch. If my father were to give me a watch, I'd want the years he wore it to be visible, making the watch unique.

Old crumpled up and scratched objects do less than nothing for me. Make your own history I reckon and keep it looking nice. Leave something you are proud of.

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[s.m.b.]

Originally Posted by Sweetswisssteel

Old crumpled up and scratched objects do less than nothing for me. Make your own history I reckon and keep it looking nice. Leave something you are proud of.

Sent from my HTC 2PXH3 using Tapatalk

That's cool! I honestly can't imagine being proud of a watch, but different views are what keep forum interesting.

[Sweetswisssteel]

Originally Posted by s.m.b.

That's cool! I honestly can't imagine being proud of a watch, but different views are what keep forum interesting.

Yeah, being on a Rolex forum, talking about our watches, looking for praise when we get a new one, etc etc yeah, sure, ... no one here is proud of their watches...

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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by s.m.b.

I would leave it unpolished and keep the original bezel. Let your son decide if he wants to service the "history" out of the watch. If my father were to give me a watch, I'd want the years he wore it to be visible, making the watch unique.

Agreed 100%
But that's just my sentimental self speaking.

I still have my Dad's old manual wind watch that he had for as far back as i can possibly remember(2.5 years old).
Dad gently passed away in paliative care as i was holding his hand back in 2003. God bless him.

I can't name the brand of the watch but it's utterly irreplaceable to me.
I can still remember how he used to look at the time on his watch when wearing long sleeves. It was a common technique dating from his prime back in the war that one occasionally sees in movies and tv shows based on that era.

I've toyed with the prospect of having it serviced to preserve the internal workings but haven't been able to work myself up to it yet. And these days good watchmakers are becoming thinner on the ground
Anyway, i don't wind it in case it does irreperable damage to be on the safe side.

To me his watch is priceless just as it is in its original condition.

[ashbaug2]

Originally Posted by s.m.b.

I would leave it unpolished and keep the original bezel. Let your son decide if he wants to service the "history" out of the watch. If my father were to give me a watch, I'd want the years he wore it to be visible, making the watch unique.

I agree with this.

I received my dad's Seiko diver from the 1970s when he passed last year, and I wish I had left it how I found it. I didn't polish it, but I had it relumed and swapped the crystal out with an aftermarket one. I didn't polish it because I wanted it to reflect a life lived.

If you don't have someone to pass it down to and plan on selling it one day, then I would keep it pristine and swap those parts. Ultimately, when you do go to sell it, the market won't care much if they're original parts.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by ashbaug2

I agree with this.

I received my dad's Seiko diver from the 1970s when he passed last year, and I wish I had left it how I found it. I didn't polish it, but I had it relumed and swapped the crystal out with an aftermarket one. I didn't polish it because I wanted it to reflect a life lived.

If you don't have someone to pass it down to and plan on selling it one day, then I would keep it pristine and swap those parts. Ultimately, when you do go to sell it, the market won't care much if they're original parts.

Don't forget.
"The market" is made up of individuals with different priorities. All of which contribute to the price paid, including the sellers skill and acumen.

As the OP is not currently interested in selling in the forseeable future. It's basically irrelevant.

Also it's not just about a life lived.
It's about how the life was shared as well.

[Tomas Eriksson]

Originally Posted by s.m.b.

I would leave it unpolished and keep the original bezel. Let your son decide if he wants to service the "history" out of the watch. If my father were to give me a watch, I'd want the years he wore it to be visible, making the watch unique.

Same here

[1William]

I would only have the movement serviced. The watch looks great and it will only be a matter of time before you add the scratches back. If you want a new aluminum insert look at TRF or other sources. It can be changed out and you can have the new and the old.

[Sweetswisssteel]

Nah, won't affect it. Keep it looking nice and new, don't worry about collectors, just make yourself happy.
Collectors get all worked up about that sort of rubbish, no idea why lol.
Just keep getting it serviced at RSC so you get the job done right.

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[Baco Noir]

Personally, I’d have it fully serviced, polished and bezel swapped too. Why? It’s not a rare collectible and it will feel like new when it comes back. When you had it down to your son, it will still be his dad’s watch that he gets with the family history and well taken care of.

[SS Oyster]

I agree with full service - nice to get back what is essentially a brand new watch.


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

I agree with full service - nice to get back what is essentially a brand new watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True enough.
But the OP had initially expressed a reasonable concern around the Bezel insert.

Blame me.
But i've already opened my big mouth about it being a "flat 4" version.
As Padi has previously mentioned on the forum.
They are common to normal Subs and Kermits of that particular era, and also to some part of the 4 digit era.
History has shown, and a precedence well established that it is a significant issue when assessing the originality of vintage pieces.
As the watch currently stands it occupies a certain place in Rolex history, and more importantly the OP's personal history.

[grymg]

You mention the words "long term value down the track" implying that you might sell it down the line - in that case then I wouldn't polish it or swap any external parts, just the internal movement parts to get the watch running up to COSC specs.

That way when you sell it, the new owner can choose whatever he wants to do with it and you get more potential buyers.

[Tools]

The recent "don't polish, keep inserts original" mania comes from the outrageous values of some extremely rare and absolutely original examples that are sold occasionally at auction.

The chances that your watch will be one of these is extremely unlikely. Keep it looking fresh if you want to - you will never live long enough for your watch to be the only one left on the planet which may increase it's value.

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by Tools

The recent "don't polish, keep inserts original" mania comes from the outrageous values of some extremely rare and absolutely original examples that are sold occasionally at auction.

The chances that your watch will be one of these is extremely unlikely. Keep it looking fresh if you want to - you will never live long enough for your watch to be the only one left on the planet which may increase it's value.

Amen to that.

People thinking that their 1990s sub that there are 1000s and 1000s floating around will all of a sudden be the next paul newman daytona if they dont polish it or replace parts on it. LOL - it wont happen.

[s.m.b.]

Originally Posted by peterpl

Amen to that.

People thinking that their 1990s sub that there are 1000s and 1000s floating around will all of a sudden be the next paul newman daytona if they dont polish it or replace parts on it. LOL - it wont happen.

Keeping a watch original and unpolished isn't solely about future monetary value. Patina, wabi-sabi, "old crumpled up and scratched," especially when it comes to family heirlooms, means something to certain people. Others could care less, and that's obviously cool.

Also, I have never purchased a used watch, but I would gladly pay a premium for an untouched sample over a Scotch-Brited, Cape-Codded, sent to Rolex every time something serious happened sample. I say let the next owner decide what to do about the signs of your experience wearing the watch in the world. A watch that has been polished once is sure to look better than one that has been repeatedly polished at home and "professionally" over the course of however many years.

[Drive]

Have them do a complete service.

[SA1]

Complete service

[Parksie]

Thanks everyone for all of your comments and input.

It does seem to be split down the middle.

Some prefer the originality and some prefer the 'spa treatment' option.

I am a little caught between both options as they both have merit.

I do like the idea of the watch coming back looking almost brand new so I may go in this direction.

The Flat 4 bezel did get me thinking that it would be nice to keep this originality however if it really will not add any significant value it may not be the way to go.

Cheers and thanks again for all of this insight and your comments.

[arinsd]

If it were me. I’d keep the original bezel and if you really want to swap it do it independently so you can keep the original.

Have it serviced and retuned with the original bezel and decide later if you want an independent shop to swap it.

[JoeyT]

As others have stated I would NOT let RSC polish or change the insert. You can always find a new 16610 insert here in the classifieds and keep the old flat four insert. Just have movement serviced and That is all. Your call though

[Tools]

In the future you could take the insert out before you send it in.

Some RSC's will let you keep the old insert if you pay a core charge. Ask the RSC, not the AD.

[subtona]

I would ask for movment service only and would not allow any cosmetic service.

I completely disagree that polishing does not harm the value of the watch.

1)The value is not always monetary
2)if the factory shape has been altered by an incompetent service person, the watch will often be passed on when put up for sale.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to keep my watch pristine with no scratches, I just insist on being responsible for any marks that are on the watch. It is unacceptable for a careless service person to damage a watch, And it happens all too often.

When sending to RSC their interest is making it shiny not necessarily maintaining the original shape

Just my