The case for buying above MSRP

[askdanny]

Obviously, the ideal Rolex steel-sports purchase is at a duty-free Rolex AD -- at the airport for example. But legally you should be declaring the purchase as you go through customs in your country anyway. (And the odds that the watch is available as you make your way through the airport are slim.)

So realistically, you buy at a local AD where you'll pay full price plus sales tax. In many big cities like Chicago, New York, or Los Angeles, you'll pay close to 10% in sales tax. In many countries in Europe, we're talking 20%. On a Hulk, Daytona, or Pepsi this is big money.

There is no telling when the watch will be available at your AD, and what the sales tax or MSRP will be at when the watch is available, as waiting lists are not made public. The only thing you know is that there will be no discount. With time, MSRP and sales tax are likely to go up, not down. Sales taxes are less unpopular than property taxes because it is a consumer tax. Americans are often cash-poor but land-rich. So sales taxes are more likely to be approved or voted on to bolster state coffers. Rolex MSRP can only go up, as I believe Rolex steel-sports models are currently underpriced; I believe the new movements will be the justification for the price increase.

Online grey dealers are not currently under the obligation to charge sales tax. This might soon change as Internet sales taxes are falling under more scrutiny because brick-and-mortars complain they can't compete. I predict online sellers in all industries will be made responsible for charging sales tax at checkout. Currently online grey dealers will offer no sales tax and free overnight shipping. (I'm not a grey dealer, just a Rolex lover.)

If Rolex shortage is mostly due to increased demand, and more people than ever in the history of the world have the financial wherewithal to buy into such an aspirational brand -- whose reputation constantly ranks first -- the shortage might get worse, not better. I heard Rolex is increasing output, but I don't think we've seen the peak demand yet -- and demand will continue to outpace supply.

Do you want to wait one or two more years for that hard-to-get Rolex and roll the dice to save $500, $1000 or even $2000 depending on the model? MSRP and sales tax are both such unknown variables that paying "grey prices" now can make sense. Plus, in two years, who knows what the market value will be. The Daytona didn't jump straight from $12,000 to $22,000. But it has relentlessly gone up and is standing at $22,000 now.

So go buy that Hulk or BLNR and enjoy them now!

[mistercoach32]

I got lucky with a same day call to an AD on my BLNR, but I wasn't so lucky with my LVc. Love them both equally.

[peterpl]

Your comparing the wrong watches.

If you were around long enough you would know Daytona's have been selling premium for decades already. Long long long long before any of this crazy hype.

Daytona premium has been the norm for decades. But when every SS watch selling above MSRP? Yeah naaaahhhh that is bubble territory

[GradyPhilpott]

I say buy what's available at MSRP and be happy with it.

Aside from some complications that people might need for business or whatever, every Rolex is essentially the same, except for the way it's cased up. They're all solid, durable, and precise machines with timeless designs.

I know that this opinion is outright heresy, but I think that the smart money goes to what's on the AD's shelves at any given moment or to whatever the AD can deliver within a reasonable time-frame.

If it's prestige beyond the Rolex brand or investments that one is interested in, there are better ways to meet those desires.

[praveen]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I know that this opinion is outright heresy, but I think that the smart money goes to what's on the AD's shelves at any given moment or to whatever the AD can deliver within a reasonable time-frame

FWIW, the 6 digit Explorer II fits this profile. At ADs as well as the greys there's not much wait or grey premium for this model.

[frankfrazetta]

Originally Posted by praveen

FWIW, the 6 digit Explorer II fits this profile. At ADs as well as the greys there's not much wait or grey premium for this model.

Yep. Bought a snickered up exp II from a grey below MSRP in the last six months. Polar.

[praveen]

Originally Posted by frankfrazetta

Yep. Bought a snickered up exp II from a grey below MSRP in the last six months. Polar.

The Polar is awesome . Very versatile!

[ROLMARINER]

Originally Posted by askdanny

Rolex MSRP can only go up, as I believe Rolex steel-sports models are currently underpriced; I believe the new movements will be the justification for the price increase.

Online grey dealers are not currently under the obligation to charge sales tax. This might soon change as Internet sales taxes are falling under more scrutiny because brick-and-mortars complain they can't compete.

I heard Rolex is increasing output, but I don't think we've seen the peak demand yet -- and demand will continue to outpace supply.

Do you want to wait one or two more years for that hard-to-get Rolex and roll the dice to save $500, $1000 or even $2000 depending on the model? MSRP and sales tax are both such unknown variables that paying "grey prices" now can make sense. Plus, in two years, who knows what the market value will be. The Daytona didn't jump straight from $12,000 to $22,000. But it has relentlessly gone up and is standing at $22,000 now.

Great points and exactly why I went grey 3x in the last 18 months and I couldn't be happier with my decisions. No one wants to pay more than they need to, but right now it's the only way for someone who spends like a whale but is perceived to be a guppy by an AD.

[pinkelle21]

If you buy above msrp you have more money than smarts

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[ROLMARINER]

Originally Posted by pinkelle21

If you buy above msrp you have more money than smarts

That’s funny, I find that people with money have it because they are very smart. And people with money tend have a discretionary reserve of no less than around $50K just for things like vacations, theater tickets, sporting events, jewelry, dining, clothing, and other recreations where ROI isn’t a consideration or a concern.

The difference between MSRP + tax and current grey pricing on a BLRO or a 500C is about $8K, and on a SS sport model like a Submariner we are talking $3K. That’s what all the angst is about here. And if that’s a hardship for anyone I’d argue that they shouldn’t even be considering a luxury watch purchase until they have the financial stability to do so. It’s the people stretching every last dollar to get into a brand they can’t actually afford that are lacking smarts, not the ones with enough wealth to be indifferent about spending a premium.

[Wahlberg]

Looking at your post history, all you do is discuss the price you paid for your GMT and hoping people will agree with you. Why do you need this kind of validation? I've stumbled upon more people doing this. They got the money to buy whatever they want but are still concerned about the price or pricing strategy.

And there are plenty of dumb people with money.

[ROLMARINER]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Looking at your post history, all you do is discuss the price you paid for your GMT and hoping people will agree with you. Why do you need this kind of validation? I've stumbled upon more people doing this. They got the money to buy whatever they want but are still concerned about the price or pricing strategy.

Like many others I post on this topic because I find it very interesting. So many threads and people with different points of view, it’s fascinating.

We are not seeking any validation either. I’m extremely comfortable with the decisions I made. What I am doing is pointing out the other side of the argument; that we’re really not talking about a lot of “extra“ money here. For the privilege of being treated well by a dealer and not waiting a year or more for a desirable Rolex, $2K on most references and $8K on the absolute hottest references is all we’re talking about here.

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

And there are plenty of dumb people with money.

And this is another reason why those of us who shop grey respond in threads like this. It’s not nice to be called stupid.

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Looking at your post history, all you do is discuss the price you paid for your GMT and hoping people will agree with you. Why do you need this kind of validation? I've stumbled upon more people doing this. They got the money to buy whatever they want but are still concerned about the price or pricing strategy.

And there are plenty of dumb people with money.

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

Like many others I post on this topic because I find it very interesting. So many threads and people with different points of view, it’s fascinating.

We are not seeking any validation either. I’m extremely comfortable with the decisions I made. What I am doing is pointing out the other side of the argument; that we’re really not talking about a lot of “extra“ money here. For the privilege of being treated well by a dealer and not waiting a year or more for a desirable Rolex, $2K on most references and $8K on the absolute hottest references is all we’re talking about here.



And this is another reason why those of us who shop grey respond in threads like this. It’s not nice to be called stupid.

Totally seeking validation. You should have seen when he bought a new red, sliver, and blue bracelet to wear with his ceramic BLRO and others scoffed at it on another forum. One of the funniest things I’ve seen. Definition of attention seeker.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

That’s funny, I find that people with money have it because they are very smart. And people with money tend have a discretionary reserve of no less than around $50K just for things like vacations, theater tickets, sporting events, jewelry, dining, clothing, and other recreations where ROI isn’t a consideration or a concern.

The difference between MSRP + tax and current grey pricing on a BLRO or a 500C is about $8K, and on a SS sport model like a Submariner we are talking $3K. That’s what all the angst is about here. And if that’s a hardship for anyone I’d argue that they shouldn’t even be considering a luxury watch purchase until they have the financial stability to do so. It’s the people stretching every last dollar to get into a brand they can’t actually afford that are lacking smarts, not the ones with enough wealth to be indifferent about spending a premium.

While not my approach, some good points here

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

That’s funny, I find that people with money have it because they are very smart. And people with money tend have a discretionary reserve of no less than around $50K just for things like vacations, theater tickets, sporting events, jewelry, dining, clothing, and other recreations where ROI isn’t a consideration or a concern.

The difference between MSRP + tax and current grey pricing on a BLRO or a 500C is about $8K, and on a SS sport model like a Submariner we are talking $3K. That’s what all the angst is about here. And if that’s a hardship for anyone I’d argue that they shouldn’t even be considering a luxury watch purchase until they have the financial stability to do so. It’s the people stretching every last dollar to get into a brand they can’t actually afford that are lacking smarts, not the ones with enough wealth to be indifferent about spending a premium.

Ha!
Always different perspectives.
I know a lot of people with a lot of money.
They didn’t acquire it by being frivolous and overpaying and then justifying why they overpaid.
This for me is like justifying why ghonerrhea is good for you.

[mistercoach32]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Ha!
This for me is like justifying why ghonerrhea is good for you.

Ahhhhhhhh. Ok.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by mistercoach32

Ahhhhhhhh. Ok.

It’s called sarcasm.
Don’t take it literally.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

That’s funny, I find that people with money have it because they are very smart. And people with money tend have a discretionary reserve of no less than around $50K just for things like vacations, theater tickets, sporting events, jewelry, dining, clothing, and other recreations where ROI isn’t a consideration or a concern.

The difference between MSRP + tax and current grey pricing on a BLRO or a 500C is about $8K, and on a SS sport model like a Submariner we are talking $3K. That’s what all the angst is about here. And if that’s a hardship for anyone I’d argue that they shouldn’t even be considering a luxury watch purchase until they have the financial stability to do so. It’s the people stretching every last dollar to get into a brand they can’t actually afford that are lacking smarts, not the ones with enough wealth to be indifferent about spending a premium.

Exactly. This is like worrying about mpg on a new Bentley purchase. I come from the conservative value system that if you can’t comfortably afford two, you don’t buy one. That way you don’t stress and worry about actually using that item. My most valuable and irreplaceable assets is my time. Money comes and goes but my time is not infinite. This is why I like the purity of buying from our trusted sellers. Proffessional and no games. That alone may be worth a premium to me.

[ROLMARINER]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Exactly. This is like worrying about mpg on a new Bentley purchase. I come from the conservative value system that if you can’t comfortably afford two, you don’t buy one. That way you don’t stress and worry about actually using that item. My most valuable and irreplaceable assets is my time. Money comes and goes but my time is not infinite. This is why I like the purity of buying from our trusted sellers. Proffessional and no games. That alone may be worth a premium to me.

Precisely. Not sure why it's a bad thing to speak highly of a purchase channel that treats people fairly, with respect, lives up to commitments, is in stock, and ships overnight.

Isn't that exactly what everyone wants from their AD?

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

Precisely. Not sure why it's a bad thing to speak highly of a purchase channel that treats people fairly, with respect, lives up to commitments, is in stock, and ships overnight.

Isn't that exactly what everyone wants from their AD?

All for just $8K more, for what is just an object that not only you can live without, and there is an infinite world of other comparable choices.

This thread and the other similar ones to it remind me of an old joke, that I believe everything I read. I write it down, I read it, and I believe it.

In the end, it truly is all about what makes you happy and all do with their hard earned money as they wish. That said, hard to argue that this is not another “I wrote it, I read it, I believe it” attempt.

[MTBer]

Problems with paying above MSRP-

-insuring an item for declared value is more difficult and costly- anybody insure their $9k BLRO for $18k?

-perpetuates inflated pricing, limited availability, and obnoxious retailer behavior (e.g., bundling) by incentivizing opportunistic flipping.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by MTBer

Problems with paying above MSRP-

-insuring an item for declared value is more difficult and costly- anybody insure their $9k BLRO for $18k?

Yes.
Paid MSRP and it is insured for $18,500.
Cost me $50 for the appraisal to do so.

While I don’t support paying over MSRP, I am pragmatic and realize should something happen to my BLRO, won’t be seeing another one at MSRP any time soon. Grey will be my likely route, but thanks to insurance and not my pocket.

[boogiebot]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Exactly. This is like worrying about mpg on a new Bentley purchase. I come from the conservative value system that if you can’t comfortably afford two, you don’t buy one. That way you don’t stress and worry about actually using that item. My most valuable and irreplaceable assets is my time. Money comes and goes but my time is not infinite. This is why I like the purity of buying from our trusted sellers. Proffessional and no games. That alone may be worth a premium to me.

Very interesting. So with this logic if one can’t comfortably afford to purchase 2 houses then he or she should not own one .


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[AK797]

Originally Posted by boogiebot

Very interesting. So with this logic if one can’t comfortably afford to purchase 2 houses then he or she should not own one .


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This applies to luxury toys, not essentials. Mortgages are standard for the vast majority, even the wealthy.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by boogiebot

Very interesting. So with this logic if one can’t comfortably afford to purchase 2 houses then he or she should not own one .


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Applies to luxury goods and not life essentials. I wouldn’t become “house poor” by buying too much house I couldn’t afford. I am not a 30yr mortgage kind of guy. I like to own everything.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

That’s funny, I find that people with money have it because they are very smart. And people with money tend have a discretionary reserve of no less than around $50K just for things like vacations, theater tickets, sporting events, jewelry, dining, clothing, and other recreations where ROI isn’t a consideration or a concern.

The difference between MSRP + tax and current grey pricing on a BLRO or a 500C is about $8K, and on a SS sport model like a Submariner we are talking $3K. That’s what all the angst is about here. And if that’s a hardship for anyone I’d argue that they shouldn’t even be considering a luxury watch purchase until they have the financial stability to do so. It’s the people stretching every last dollar to get into a brand they can’t actually afford that are lacking smarts, not the ones with enough wealth to be indifferent about spending a premium.

Well, I can tell you that I don't have anywhere near that kind of cash and I paid MSRP for my four BNIB Rolex and my three BNIB Tudor watches, except for the BB36, which I got at a going-out-of-business sale.

In those days people on this board claimed I was crazy for paying MSRP.

When I started in on Rolex and other pricey brands, I set limits on what I would be willing to spend and I've stayed within those limits and have a nice little collection

So, don't tell me I shouldn't be in this game because I'm not wealthy and don't have $50,000 discretionary reserve or because I refuse to pay ridiculous premiums.

Of course, people are free to spend as they wish. I just don't think that it's wise pay these current premiums and I stand by that.

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[Tampashooter]

Originally Posted by ROLMARINER

That’s funny, I find that people with money have it because they are very smart. And people with money tend have a discretionary reserve of no less than around $50K just for things like vacations, theater tickets, sporting events, jewelry, dining, clothing, and other recreations where ROI isn’t a consideration or a concern.

The difference between MSRP + tax and current grey pricing on a BLRO or a 500C is about $8K, and on a SS sport model like a Submariner we are talking $3K. That’s what all the angst is about here. And if that’s a hardship for anyone I’d argue that they shouldn’t even be considering a luxury watch purchase until they have the financial stability to do so. It’s the people stretching every last dollar to get into a brand they can’t actually afford that are lacking smarts, not the ones with enough wealth to be indifferent about spending a premium.

So on target.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by pinkelle21

If you buy above msrp you have more money than smarts

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Oh man, I never considered myself to have lots of money, and now I realize I’m not very smart either. Thanks for that lol.

However, I enjoyed years and years of buying watches at 15-30% off. I still do in some cases. But when it came down to buying hard to get pieces, even the premium I paid for my SS Daytona, was still less money than paying the full price difference on just one discounted watch of the dozens I’ve bought in the past.

Now, I’ve never been one to equate intelligence with the amount of money you have, but since you’ve brought it up; if listed all the watches I’ve bought and how much I’ve spent, I guarantee it’s significantly less money than the same list of watches purchased from AD only lifelong MSRP’ers.

So while you can say someone is stupid for spending more than MSRP on a watch, I think you’ll need some other reasons to justify the statement aside from spending money or having excessive amounts of it.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by pinkelle21

If you buy above msrp you have more money than smarts

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Not necessarily. For instance, if you paid 10% over MSRP for a new Daytona 116500 right now, you could sell it at a hefty profit the next day!

Things aren’t always so black and white.


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[S-F]

Originally Posted by Token74

Not necessarily. For instance, if you paid 10% over MSRP for a new Daytona 116500 right now, you could sell it at a hefty profit the next day!

Things aren’t always so black and white.


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You could, assuming the current economic climate stays exactly the same. What happens when more supply is released or the economy has a small hiccup?

Things aren't always so black and white :)