AP 2019 is on FIRE

[chad362wiley]

38mm chrono is going to a homerun. It will wear just like a daytona.

What do you think about the 15500?

Have they done anything with 41mm chronos?

[Roger Lococco]

I hope it wears a bit larger than 38mm. But it does look incredible.

[SigloII]

Looks like they are all live on the webpage:

https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/wa...-by=collection

38mm chronos are a killer, too bad they didn't update the movement.
There is a new white gold/pink dial extra-thin 15202. That is pretty cool.
3 new camo Offshores. Not a fan of the 44mm's TBH they wear huge on the wrist.

[myporsche]

Originally Posted by SigloII

Looks like they are all live on the webpage:

https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/wa...-by=collection

38mm chronos are a killer, too bad they didn't update the movement.
There is a new white gold/pink dial extra-thin 15202. That is pretty cool.
3 new camo Offshores. Not a fan of the 44mm's TBH they wear huge on the wrist.

I think they are releasing the last batch of f.piguet chronos in the 38mm cases, it's only a matter of time now there will be a completely new ROC following on the inspiration of the 15500 and with a new chrono movement form CODE watches.

[bruinmd]

Originally Posted by myporsche

I think they are releasing the last batch of f.piguet chronos in the 38mm cases, it's only a matter of time now there will be a completely new ROC following on the inspiration of the 15500 and with a new chrono movement form CODE watches.

I think you're right.

Will these 38mm have closed case backs?

[Ar_Mi]

Originally Posted by myporsche

I think they are releasing the last batch of f.piguet chronos in the 38mm cases, it's only a matter of time now there will be a completely new ROC following on the inspiration of the 15500 and with a new chrono movement form CODE watches.

On the contrary I feel that perhaps the ROC is going to keep its 1185 based calibre for now, why would they introduce the 38mm only to have to redesign the case again next year to fit the thicker in-house chrono.
And who knows how many years their supply contract is with frederic piguet.. maybe it will not end anytime soon, and maybe it will.
Maybe we might see the ROC finally get its upgrade in 2021 when it hits the 5 year anniversary mark...

Then again anything is possible.

[myporsche]

Originally Posted by Ar_Mi

why would they introduce the 38mm only to have to redesign the case again next year to fit the thicker in-house chrono

Like I wrote to fulfill and use up the last batch of f.piguet chronos

Originally Posted by Ar_Mi

On the contrary I feel that perhaps the ROC is going to keep its 1185 based calibre for now

Yep until they use the rest of the existing chrono modules

Originally Posted by Ar_Mi

Maybe we might see the ROC finally get its upgrade in 2021 when it hits the 5 year anniversary mark...

Then again anything is possible.

I think sooner, hopefully they do it in 2019 since the chrono movement is already released on CODE.

AGREED - anything is possible!

[Ar_Mi]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Like I wrote to fulfill and use up the last batch of f.piguet chronos



Yep until they use the rest of the existing chrono modules



I think sooner, hopefully they do it in 2019 since the chrono movement is already released on CODE.

AGREED - anything is possible!

I would be excited to see the new chrono calibre in the ROC as well.. but deff not coming in 2019. Lets see, I'm also excited to see when AP will choose to do their new watch reveals since they announced they will no longer participate in SIHH come 2020.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Yep until they use the rest of the existing chrono modules

I think sooner, hopefully they do it in 2019 since the chrono movement is already released on CODE.

You’re confusing the ROC with the ROOC – the former is an integrated chronograph by FP, the latter uses the DD module on their 3120 base.

Highly likely that FP usage will continue for a while for a few reasons:
Existing contract, although AP could terminate whenever they see fit, albeit with a finacial penalty
Production capability — it will take AP a while to ramp up the numbers
Give the new CODE models a chamce to establish themselves
Use the limited numbers of the new CODE line to real world test the movement for issues before letting them loose in the ROCs (and ROOCs)

[edo]

Why 10 threads guys... we have the official AP SIHH 2019 thread... it is better to keep all in one place for the quality of discussion...

[watchfan0529]

The new 38mm is very similar to what already existed in the past, the 25860st 39mm with exactly the same movement and currently probably cheaper than this new one. I think it's cool they are putting the chrono movement on this case size again.

I do think AP is on fire, but in a different sense because of that new "code"...literally catching fire...

[benlee]

I don't think one should get anymore ROC until the new inhouse movement comes in. There are some significant improvements over the current F.Piguet movement Of course, long term accuracy and reliability yet to be tested.

I am ambivalent about the 15500. Not very sure about the black ring around the bezel. Will hold final judgement until I see it. But most likely, I am not going to upgrade as the new offerings have no silver dial.

[bruinmd]

Originally Posted by benlee

I don't think one should get anymore ROC until the new inhouse movement comes in. There are some significant improvements over the current F.Piguet movement Of course, long term accuracy and reliability yet to be tested.

I am ambivalent about the 15500. Not very sure about the black ring around the bezel. Will hold final judgement until I see it. But most likely, I am not going to upgrade as the new offerings have no silver dial.

This is what I'm struggling with.....................whether to buy a ROC now or wait......

Pros of getting one now: the F. piguet movement is tried, true, and tested and one of the best outsourced chrono movements out there (if not the best?). Price point will remain close to what it is now, while any new ROC in the near future with an in house movement will raise the price of a ROC by a fair amount, I'm guessing.

Cons: Is the ROC with this movement a good value proposition to begin with, relative to a Daytona, where you're talking about a non in house movement with only 40 hour power reserve in the ROC for twice the price of a Daytona at retail?
Also, when the new movement does come out in the new models, it will likely devalue any ROC that is purchased this year.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by bruinmd

This is what I'm struggling with.....................whether to buy a ROC now or wait......

Pros of getting one now: the F. piguet movement is tried, true, and tested and one of the best outsourced chrono movements out there (if not the best?). Price point will remain close to what it is now, while any new ROC in the near future with an in house movement will raise the price of a ROC by a fair amount, I'm guessing.

Cons: Is the ROC with this movement a good value proposition to begin with, relative to a Daytona, where you're talking about a non in house movement with only 40 hour power reserve in the ROC for twice the price of a Daytona at retail?
Also, when the new movement does come out in the new models, it will likely devalue any ROC that is purchased this year.

The resale value of the discontinued 39mm ROC is a disaster and I don't see why this one would be any better.

[socalwatchcollector]

Originally Posted by bruinmd

This is what I'm struggling with.....................whether to buy a ROC now or wait......

Pros of getting one now: the F. piguet movement is tried, true, and tested and one of the best outsourced chrono movements out there (if not the best?). Price point will remain close to what it is now, while any new ROC in the near future with an in house movement will raise the price of a ROC by a fair amount, I'm guessing.

Cons: Is the ROC with this movement a good value proposition to begin with, relative to a Daytona, where you're talking about a non in house movement with only 40 hour power reserve in the ROC for twice the price of a Daytona at retail?
Also, when the new movement does come out in the new models, it will likely devalue any ROC that is purchased this year.

Wait it out unless you have urges to spend money for no reason. I had the ROC in my collection briefly and it is very comfortable if not one of the most comfortable watches out there but not having an in house movement and exhibition case was a deal breaker for me for the price they are charging. I traded it in after only a few days and took a light hit but honestly I don't miss it one bit. Better value out there in my opinion and as they say patience is a virtue!

[bruinmd]

Originally Posted by socalwatchcollector

Wait it out unless you have urges to spend money for no reason. I had the ROC in my collection briefly and it is very comfortable if not one of the most comfortable watches out there but not having an in house movement and exhibition case was a deal breaker for me for the price they are charging. I traded it in after only a few days and took a light hit but honestly I don't miss it one bit. Better value out there in my opinion and as they say patience is a virtue!

I'm with you on the ROC. It's out.
But what about this 42mm ROOC (blue dial/grey sub dials). It's the same closed case back as the ROC b/c it houses the F.Piguet movement, but has a titanium case.
I found out it will NOT be a limited edition piece, so despite having some unique attributes c/w other ROOC's (ie the F.P movement instead of the 3126, along with no Arabic numerals and a dial layout more like a ROC) , it will probably take a hit on the second hand market.

But in terms of dials, it's far and away my favorite dial. If the ghost had come in a blue/grey pattern, it would have been my clear #1 choice.

[socalwatchcollector]

Originally Posted by bruinmd

I'm with you on the ROC. It's out.
But what about this 42mm ROOC (blue dial/grey sub dials). It's the same closed case back as the ROC b/c it houses the F.Piguet movement, but has a titanium case.
I found out it will NOT be a limited edition piece, so despite having some unique attributes c/w other ROOC's (ie the F.P movement instead of the 3126, along with no Arabic numerals and a dial layout more like a ROC) , it will probably take a hit on the second hand market.

But in terms of dials, it's far and away my favorite dial. If the ghost had come in a blue/grey pattern, it would have been my clear #1 choice.

Blue-grey would be amazing! I believe Tyler mentioned having the ability to customize the offshore which I think would be a home run for them and certainly for all of us. The black themes was perfect in my opinion as far as color combo is concerned and I dream daily they bring it back with ceramic. I know, I know it's just a dream but it would be nice!

[karasus]

Originally Posted by socalwatchcollector

Wait it out unless you have urges to spend money for no reason. I had the ROC in my collection briefly and it is very comfortable if not one of the most comfortable watches out there but not having an in house movement and exhibition case was a deal breaker for me for the price they are charging. I traded it in after only a few days and took a light hit but honestly I don't miss it one bit. Better value out there in my opinion and as they say patience is a virtue!

I don't know if the newer movements can be considered better value. For many years all the best watches were made with ebauches, this includes Lemania's used in PP and VC, F.Piguet in VC and AP. Yes Patek 5170s and Omega Speed masters have the same base ebauches made by Lemania, simply because Lemania was the best base movement designer/maker but not necessarily the best movement integrator.

Hell Patek even used a Valjoux 23, yes that Valjoux in cheap breitlings, mido, etc. Valjoux(ETA) makes some of the most common chronograph movements. However, those Patek models the Ref.2499 is sell for the millions. Last sale of a Ref.2499 with a Valjoux movement was 3.88 Million ($3,879,843):
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/as...s-world-record

Of course the Patek Lemania's and Valjoux 23 are extensively reworked. I would expect the same in 1185s in the F.Piguet. Only time will tell if the new in house movements are more reliable and better value than the F.Piguet 1185, since value isn't always determined if the movement is in house or not rather of the quality.

Originally Posted by PJ S

Principally, yes.
The ROOC problem(s) are of AP’s own making, by my estimation. Dubois–Depraz make far too many modules (extremely well renowned for it) fitted by themselves, and others, to basic ETA/Sellita base calibers without failing as much as it appears to on the 3120.
I doubt it’s D-D’s assembly of them, so that leaves an engineering issue which AP has chosen to ignore or their assembly of them, if they’re receiving them as ebauches (kit form).

The reasoning behind FP’s in the 42 ROOC is open to conjecture, but the closed back is likely so as to hide the fact that it’s a small movement in a larger case.

The DD modules on top of 3120s are a bit more finicky than most ETA/Sellita/JLC, initially when AP used the DD they had the 4HZ JLC 980 base movement that runs at a similar frequency as most ETA/Sellita paired with the DD module.

My old 25721ST D series runs fine and quite well even after 25 years, testament to the base JLC movement and DD module. However I have seen many 3120 with DD fail if they go too long without service, but those tend to be first batch ones later ones these appear less.

Yes the FP is a small thin movement, that really fits best in a 36mm- 39mm case, any larger then the watch will just look funny especially with a display case back.

[socalwatchcollector]

Originally Posted by karasus

I don't know if the newer movements can be considered better value. For many years all the best watches were made with ebauches, this includes Lemania's used in PP and VC, F.Piguet in VC and AP. Yes Patek 5170s and Omega Speed masters have the same base ebauches made by Lemania, simply because Lemania was the best base movement designer/maker but not necessarily the best movement integrator.

Hell Patek even used a Valjoux 23, yes that Valjoux in cheap breitlings, mido, etc. Valjoux(ETA) makes some of the most common chronograph movements. However, those Patek models the Ref.2499 is sell for the millions. Last sale of a Ref.2499 with a Valjoux movement was 3.88 Million ($3,879,843):
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/as...s-world-record

Of course the Patek Lemania's and Valjoux 23 are extensively reworked. I would expect the same in 1185s in the F.Piguet. Only time will tell if the new in house movements are more reliable and better value than the F.Piguet 1185, since value isn't always determined if the movement is in house or not rather of the quality.



The DD modules on top of 3120s are a bit more finicky than most ETA/Sellita/JLC, initially when AP used the DD they had the 4HZ JLC 980 base movement that runs at a similar frequency as most ETA/Sellita paired with the DD module.

My old 25721ST D series runs fine and quite well even after 25 years, testament to the base JLC movement and DD module. However I have seen many 3120 with DD fail if they go too long without service, but those tend to be first batch ones later ones these appear less.

Yes the FP is a small thin movement, that really fits best in a 36mm- 39mm case, any larger then the watch will just look funny especially with a display case back.

You got me there! Which leads back to it's always personal preference IMO. Personally I think the watch is fantastic looking and extremely comfortable but those two things I mentioned bugged me to death. I had the opportunity to buy another one yesterday and was going to do so as a gift for someone but it just weighed me down and so I passed and went with an AP offshore for him.

All valid points you made so

[zahain]

the 41mm chrono new changes aren't showing online yet. The new 38mm variant will not have a open caseback as seen on the website. The 41mm better have the new movement they're putting in the code sleeper (11.59). The new 15500 will look larger on the wrist than a 15400 due to the larger text and hour markets. Dont see the reason to do that when you have a watch called the offshore for the larger wrist lovers?

[bruinmd]

Originally Posted by zahain

the 41mm chrono new changes aren't showing online yet. The new 38mm variant will not have a open caseback as seen on the website. The 41mm better have the new movement they're putting in the code sleeper (11.59). The new 15500 will look larger on the wrist than a 15400 due to the larger text and hour markets. Dont see the reason to do that when you have a watch called the offshore for the larger wrist lovers?

It's been confirmed -- no open caseback on the 38mm?

[wisguy]

Originally Posted by bruinmd

It's been confirmed -- no open caseback on the 38mm?

Don't think they will have an openback, the movement is not great to look at, the rotor alone is something better kept hidden.

I used to own a 26300 so I was excited about the 38mm, but not crazy about the dials and really hoped they would use the new movement.

[Pongster]

What does Code 11:59 mean?

[ragsk]

Originally Posted by Pongster

What does Code 11:59 mean?

Total nonsense name. The watch deserved better.

[c17r15]

Originally Posted by ragsk

Total nonsense name. The watch deserved better.

Code 11.59 stands for:

Challenge -Challenge the limits of craftsmanship
Own – Our roots and legacy
Dare – To follow firm convictions
Evolve – Never stand still
11.59 – The last minute before a new day

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by c17r15

Code 11.59 stands for:



Challenge -Challenge the limits of craftsmanship

Own – Our roots and legacy

Dare – To follow firm convictions

Evolve – Never stand still

11.59 – The last minute before a new day

Wouldn’t even be a good name for a video game let a 40k watch.

[superstarmar]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Wouldn’t even be a good name for a video game let a 40k watch.

[watchfan0529]

Originally Posted by c17r15

Code 11.59 stands for:

Challenge -Challenge the limits of craftsmanship
Own – Our roots and legacy
Dare – To follow firm convictions
Evolve – Never stand still
11.59 – The last minute before a new day

smh..what is this, a high school project?

[appa666]

Originally Posted by Pongster

What does Code 11:59 mean?

Appearantly AP thought the new 11.59 line is close to perfection so when they announce the “perfect” new line they will name it 12.00

[tyler1980]

i pretty much like everything except the 15500

the hour markers are too thick and IMO it makes it less elegant and more offshore ish. I like the new position of the date window and new movement though. Also removing the word automatic makes the dial unbalanced so they should have moved the AP logo down like on the 15202