Is anybody actually paying $9000+ for SS SubC's

[TheDon2000]

Hello TRF

Hopefully this doesn't infuriate a bunch of you but I'm trying to seriously gauge the market here. I know that SS Rolex's have been and are an inelastic market...meaning they're very resilient to outside change and are very solid in value. But the last 1-2 years has seen an increasing cost to levels that I think are starting to push the envelope. I get it, lots of people, myself included, will pay more for having it right now. For some people, that may stop at $10. Others may pay $10,000 over to have it right now. I'm currently in the market for a Rolex to add to my collection...If you look at any of the "bigger" dealers that sell used or like new pieces like DavidSW, OC Watch Guy, Bob's Watches, etc. they're listing some of these SubC's for $8500 (For Submariners) and $9000+ (For Submariner Dates). I mean, I think any AD could get you an SS Sub within 2 months for retail pricing and most will negotiate off tax at that...I just want to know are there actually enough people paying the markup on the pre-owned market to support it long term?

Last year, a buddy of mine bought a 114060 for ~$6000 from a member on TRF. This year, you'll be lucky to grab a used one for full retail on a good "deal" and most of the market hovers at $8000-$8500 for new in box or big dealer price. Sub Dates at Bob's are going for just shy of $10,000.

For current owners, I may come off like I'm trying to ruin the value of theirs or for people that did pay the above prices, I may come off like I'm trying to say they got ripped off - I mean nothing of the kind. To reiterate, I'm just trying to gauge the market. Obviously some people must be paying the prices or they'd not be still at current levels.

A few other questions...Do we think it will "pop" and return to what it was? Will 2013+ SS Subs always be $8000+ from now on?

What effect will a potential updated Basel 2019 model do? Make the current Sub's "more desirable" and therefore go up? Nobody has a time machine but we can all speculate with a little spare time :D.


Cheers Gents. Have a good day.

[JR16]

I’d venture to say nearly everyone these days is paying MSRP for subs. That includes paying the tax as well, if applicable. There are plenty of threads and posts on TRF demonstrating the variable availability of Subs at ADs including many waiting more than a few months depending on location and relationship/history. So for those who don’t want to wait or play the AD game, paying $9000 for a SubC date is basically paying MSRP+ tax and it’s available , with warranty, immediately.


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[s.m.b.]

Originally Posted by TheDon2000

Obviously some people must be paying the prices or they'd not be still at current levels.

[Uga2007]

With the way things are these days no AD would discount even the tax on a SS Sub because they don’t have to. There are 50 people behind you who would gladly pay full boat + tax. If you bought a PM along with it they might play ball but even then might still be a stretch.

[imgook]

You sound very salty. Pay the premiums, don't pay premiums and wait. It's all in your hands, and no body really knows what the future may hold. Could all go belly up tomorrow.

[TheDon2000]

Originally Posted by Uga2007

With the way things are these days no AD would discount even the tax on a SS Sub because they don’t have to. There are 50 people behind you who would gladly pay full boat + tax. If you bought a PM along with it they might play ball but even then might still be a stretch.

Good point. I know some AD's that have room but you're right. My buddy owns several Rolex dealers but even he said that there's no point in negotiations when anybody will walk into the shop and buy it full retail + tax within a day or two.

Originally Posted by imgook

You sound very salty. Pay the premiums, don't pay premiums and wait. It's all in your hands.

I'm not salty in the least. I don't know how much more I could have bubble wrapped my post than I already did without it being a mess to read...

[SconnieBT]

Originally Posted by imgook

Could all go belly up tomorrow.

I'd take that bet.

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[Wizardly]

I paid my AD full retail plus tax last week for my Submariner. I value service and didn't even consider asking for a deal. Why? They searched out one that was perfect for me... one that was aligned the way I wanted it. (Rehaute.) I passed on 3 (two dates and one other sub) and they were totally cool with it. They even rejected some without calling me, then called when they found 'the' one.

Start a relationship with an AD. You don't have to spend money to start that relationship. Go in, talk, shake a hand. Show them you are a solid sale. I don't know where you are, but Wempe in NYC is the real deal. Old fashioned service.

[Nurseford25]

Originally Posted by Wizardly

Start a relationship with an AD. You don't have to spend money to start that relationship. Go in, talk, shake a hand. Show them you are a solid sale. I don't know where you are, but Wempe in NYC is the real deal. Old fashioned service.

This is exactly what I did. I waited a total of four days for my sub. As soon as the shipment came in they called and said if you get here when we open it’s yours. I went new simply because it’s the cheapest way to get one now days. I did buy my wife a necklace though so I’m sure that helped a little.

[csaltphoto]

Just depends what you want. Some people want the NIB/AD experience and are willing to either wait for it and or pay for it. Some people want a watch to wear. That is just the way the market is at the moment. Right after Christmas there were a few deals to be had. Then came Valentines... Not sure what upcoming Basel does to the market.

The inelasticity is unlikely to change in any sort of timeframe that is practical. And realistically if you can afford a Rolex 10% either way is not really an issue. It's not about what they are worth, it's what they cost. It's market driven.

[tourspecgolfer]

Im one who paid OVER msrp and ordered it from the comfort of my couch and it arrived the next day! Same with my daytona C.

I dont see the use in building a relationship with an AD if they never have what I want when I want and they act as if they are doing me a favor.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by tourspecgolfer

im one who paid over msrp and ordered it from the comfort of my couch and it arrived the next day! Same with my daytona c.

I dont see the use in building a relationship with an ad if they never have what i want when i want and they act as if they are doing me a favor.

+1

[daytonastl]

Originally Posted by BillA

+1

I’ll second or third that.

[johnny.tran1]

i paid exactly 9k for my 2018 ss sub c with date and have no regrets

[lightingball2]

Originally Posted by TheDon2000

Hello TRF



Hopefully this doesn't infuriate a bunch of you but I'm trying to seriously gauge the market here. I know that SS Rolex's have been and are an inelastic market...meaning they're very resilient to outside change and are very solid in value. But the last 1-2 years has seen an increasing cost to levels that I think are starting to push the envelope. I get it, lots of people, myself included, will pay more for having it right now. For some people, that may stop at $10. Others may pay $10,000 over to have it right now. I'm currently in the market for a Rolex to add to my collection...If you look at any of the "bigger" dealers that sell used or like new pieces like DavidSW, OC Watch Guy, Bob's Watches, etc. they're listing some of these SubC's for $8500 (For Submariners) and $9000+ (For Submariner Dates). I mean, I think any AD could get you an SS Sub within 2 months for retail pricing and most will negotiate off tax at that...I just want to know are there actually enough people paying the markup on the pre-owned market to support it long term?



Last year, a buddy of mine bought a 114060 for ~$6000 from a member on TRF. This year, you'll be lucky to grab a used one for full retail on a good "deal" and most of the market hovers at $8000-$8500 for new in box or big dealer price. Sub Dates at Bob's are going for just shy of $10,000.



For current owners, I may come off like I'm trying to ruin the value of theirs or for people that did pay the above prices, I may come off like I'm trying to say they got ripped off - I mean nothing of the kind. To reiterate, I'm just trying to gauge the market. Obviously some people must be paying the prices or they'd not be still at current levels.



A few other questions...Do we think it will "pop" and return to what it was? Will 2013+ SS Subs always be $8000+ from now on?



What effect will a potential updated Basel 2019 model do? Make the current Sub's "more desirable" and therefore go up? Nobody has a time machine but we can all speculate with a little spare time :D.





Cheers Gents. Have a good day.

I was at the Rolex boutique in SF over the weekend and they are telling people the wait list for a sub is about a year. One guy came in when I was there and this was the second time he checked in with them since December. He was still told a year......


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[Wizardly]

I'm beginning to think that the 'lesser' ADs don't get as much product and then play the snooty 'get on the list game.' By lesser I mean that they don't sell as much, and hence the hotter watches aren't as plentiful for them. I mean I personally saw 4 Subs within two weeks at my AD. I think the 'list' can be avoided.

I went to one AD on Long Island and the guy practically snooted me out of the store. Horrible attitude. However before he did I chuckled and said "I'm not surprised that Rolex isn't sending you inventory."

[TheDon2000]

Originally Posted by tourspecgolfer

Im one who paid OVER msrp and ordered it from the comfort of my couch and it arrived the next day! Same with my daytona C.

I dont see the use in building a relationship with an AD if they never have what I want when I want and they act as if they are doing me a favor.

Thanks for your side of the story! I completely see where you're coming from and more than likely will go that route depending on the story I get from the local ADs.

Originally Posted by lightingball2

I was at the Rolex boutique in SF over the weekend and they are telling people the wait list for a sub is about a year. One guy came in when I was there and this was the second time he checked in with them since December. He was still told a year......


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That's brutal. I wonder why. I saw a ND sitting in an AD's box a few months ago and a few other "hot" pieces. I guess it depends on the area, the AD (how much they sell), and pure chance. Some people have found 126600s, 114060s, or even steel Sky-Dwellers just sitting in cases (Granted, usually they find out the watch has been in stock for mere hours...but I've read the stories on here)...

Originally Posted by Wizardly

I'm beginning to think that the 'lesser' ADs don't get as much product and then play the snooty 'get on the list game.' By lesser I mean that they don't sell as much, and hence the hotter watches aren't as plentiful for them. I mean I personally saw 4 Subs within two weeks at my AD. I think the 'list' can be avoided.

I went to one AD on Long Island and the guy practically snooted me out of the store. Horrible attitude. However before he did I chuckled and said "I'm not surprised that Rolex isn't sending you inventory."

Yep, there's a complete spectrum of AD's from rockstars to straight up terrible. I don't get why there's a point in being snooty with potential customers...I do know that ADs that are in/near malls or high traffic areas tend to be more lax as idiots walk in and out all day long ogling and yes I've been part of that crowd before but some people are straight up annoying.

[envuks]

Originally Posted by TheDon2000

My buddy owns several Rolex dealers but even he said that there's no point in negotiations when anybody will walk into the shop and buy it full retail + tax within a day or two.

Originally Posted by TheDon2000

Thanks for your side of the story! I completely see where you're coming from and more than likely will go that route depending on the story I get from the local ADs.

If your buddy actually owns several Rolex dealers, what are you doing shopping around ADs or considering buying gray market?

Doesn’t sound like much of a buddy to me....

[Paul_I]

Originally Posted by TheDon2000

I'm trying to seriously gauge the market here.

I'm currently in the market for a Rolex to add to my collection...If you look at any of the "bigger" dealers that sell used or like new pieces like DavidSW, OC Watch Guy, Bob's Watches, etc. they're listing some of these SubC's for $8500.

I just want to know are there actually enough people paying the markup on the pre-owned market to support it long term?

...

To reiterate, I'm just trying to gauge the market. Obviously some people must be paying the prices or they'd not be still at current levels.

You nailed it!

[Bebot]

I currently have 3 rolex at the moment all SS.
Sub, DJ41 and Daytona White dial.

I sold few rolex in the past also all SS.
Daytona Black dial, Sub, GMTII, YM.

None of these watch I paid MSRP. I got most of them with 10% off MSRP with no sales tax. I both one of them from here.

Right now I am in the market for 126660 JC D-Blue. I may pay MARP on this one if becomes available but not paying sales for it. If I have to wait, then I have all the time in the world. If I have to pay more than retail, then I don't want it because I don't need it.

My 2 cents.

[Viral]

the point is, Rolex has figured out a way to make people pay 10K for a stainless steel watch.........SMH

[1665fan]

Some people pay 50k old beat up SS vintage subs......think about that

[AK797]

I'm a watch guy not a money guy so I'll pay a premium to get a watch I really want. In the olden days I didn't mind waiting up to 6 months for a watch, but that was when things were more trustable, now there are too many shenanigans and I have less patience than before so I would in theory pay an even bigger premium for a watch to have it when I want. Time is more money for me now than money is.

[brandrea]

I suppose it denpends on where you are located. I still see Submariners and Sub dates from time to time, and I’d be surprised if the wait were more than a few months.

Now Daytona’s, and Pepsi’s are a different story

[amh]

MSRP + Tax from a TS seems like a fair deal. Else wait for years.

Slightly used? I'd expect to pay under MSRP.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by TheDon2000

A few other questions...Do we think it will "pop" and return to what it was? Will 2013+ SS Subs always be $8000+ from now on?

What effect will a potential updated Basel 2019 model do? Make the current Sub's "more desirable" and therefore go up? Nobody has a time machine but we can all speculate with a little spare time :D.

I would rather talk about watches, not the process of buying and selling high end luxury jewelry

[blue997]

I wandered into a random AD in a medium sized city in Connecticut and they had a 114060 sitting in the case. I bought it instantly and probably within 5 minutes another you guy came in trying to buy a SS Sub. Since then I've been to many more ADs and the only SS watches I've seen are OPs and many dealers don't even have those. I don't think Subs are as easy to get as you are saying

[Lloydas1]

I paid $10,500 for a SubC date from DSW in December. I refuse the play the AD sucking up game for the chance to spend my money. And I’d do it again if I wanted another one, the premium was worth the almost instant gratification.

[hbombkid]

Really comes down to time and how much you want to pay.

It seems most ADs you are gonna pay msrp and tax. Most trusted sellers seeing them in the 9500-10k range.

Now depending the AD if they told me it was a year wait I probably would spend the 500-1000 extra to have it in 24 hrs.

[codecow]

I am infuriated!