Why are those bezels called “engine-turned”?

[miamiclay]

I’ve always wondered, maybe someone here knows the answer. Why are some Rolex bezels referred to as “engine turned” or “machine turned”?

I’m referring to those bezels, I believe most commonly found on older Datejusts, with an interrupted radial pattern of raised panels, like the first photo below.

When I hear the term “engine-turned,” what it brings to my mind is a repeated concentric pattern, often found on sheet-metal dashboards, like the second group of photos. I believe that Rolex itself uses (or used) the terms “engine turned” or “machine turned,” but I can’t see how the bezels are related to the more common usage of those terms. (I mean, both are round, but then so is most every bezel on a round watch.)

Anyone know the origin of or reason for Rolex’s terminology? Maybe it’s just part of horological vernacular in general - every field has its own specialized language - and predates Rolex?

If I were obliged to choose the word for those bezels ... idk, maybe ... “crenellated”?
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[Tools]

Engine turned means a repetitive pattern machined or engraved into metal.

In the case of the dashboards, it is classically "engine turned" - a repetitive machined design.

In the case of the repetitive, machined pattern, on the steel bezels edge, it too is engine (machine) turned decoration.

[BlueNote]

Originally Posted by Tools

Engine turned means a repetitive pattern machined or engraved into metal.

In the case of the dashboards, it is classically "engine turned" - a repetitive machined design.

In the case of the repetitive, machined pattern, on the steel bezels edge, it too is engine (machine) turned decoration.

Exactly. The metal is moved mechanically against a fixed engine turning die tool to cut a decorative, light reflecting or tactile interesting surface.

[Polarexplorerii]

Originally Posted by Tools

Engine turned means a repetitive pattern machined or engraved into metal.

In the case of the dashboards, it is classically "engine turned" - a repetitive machined design.

In the case of the repetitive, machined pattern, on the steel bezels edge, it too is engine (machine) turned decoration.

i never knew that

[KBM]

Originally Posted by Tools

Engine turned means a repetitive pattern machined or engraved into metal.

In the case of the dashboards, it is classically "engine turned" - a repetitive machined design.

In the case of the repetitive, machined pattern, on the steel bezels edge, it too is engine (machine) turned decoration.

Thanks for that, Larry!

[miamiclay]

I just stumbled across this Wikipedia article, about the pattern of overlapping engine-turned circles on a surface (the ones in this thread’s first post, as often seen on vintage aluminum dashboard panels, watch movements, etc., which I had thought was what the term “engine turned” itself meant), and remembered this thread.

As always, I appreciated you good folks setting me straight where I’d gotten it wrong, and thought y’all might like to know that (naturellement!) there is a specific term for that particular overlapping-circles/Venn-diagram pattern of engine turning a surface - It’s called “perlée” or “perlage,” French for “pearl pattern.”

[rajcuatrista]

I love the look of "engine turned bezel", Rolex should bring back that option!
I also like the pyramid dials, very cool.

[Yachtbuoy]

Originally Posted by rajcuatrista

I love the look of "engine turned bezel", Rolex should bring back that option!
I also like the pyramid dials, very cool.

No way, I think the classic engine-turned look is "of it's time". If you want one, pick up a vintage one!

It looks absolutely dope though, I am very much in love with my 1603.

[77T]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

Anyone know the origin of or reason for Rolex’s terminology? Maybe it’s just part of horological vernacular in general - every field has its own specialized language - and predates Rolex?

Rolex didn’t use the word engine-turned. That is, in the jewelry/watchmaking vernacular. I believe they would’ve used Guilloché.

That is the effect in use since the 1770’s to the technique Larry described.

Why Guilloché?

Because a French engineer named Guillot invented a tool or turning machine. At least that’s one etymological root for Guilloché.

The process can be linear, radial, orbital, or even overlapped as you portrayed in the photos.

I wouldn’t use crenellated as it more aptly describes a linear building technology with notches and merlons.



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[springbar]

Originally Posted by 77T

Rolex didn’t use the word engine-turned.

Yes they did. These bezels were described for decades as "engine-turned" in official Rolex catalogs and price lists.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by 77T

Rolex didn’t use the word engine-turned. That is, in the jewelry/watchmaking vernacular. I believe they would’ve used Guilloché.

That is the effect in use since the 1770’s to the technique Larry described.

Why Guilloché?

Because a French engineer named Guillot invented a tool or turning machine. At least that’s one etymological root for Guilloché.

The process can be linear, radial, orbital, or even overlapped as you portrayed in the photos.

I wouldn’t use crenellated as it more aptly describes a linear building technology with notches and merlons.



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This term is used quite commonly used to describe dial patterns as well

[77T]

Originally Posted by brandrea

This term is used quite commonly used to describe dial patterns as well

Yes, guilloche is the right term - Rolex knows it...even today...

https://www.rolex.com/watches/cellini/m50519-0011.html


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[Robf52]

Originally Posted by 77T

Rolex didn’t use the word engine-turned. That is, in the jewelry/watchmaking vernacular. I believe they would’ve used Guilloché.

That is the effect in use since the 1770’s to the technique Larry described.

Why Guilloché?

Because a French engineer named Guillot invented a tool or turning machine. At least that’s one etymological root for Guilloché.

The process can be linear, radial, orbital, or even overlapped as you portrayed in the photos.

I wouldn’t use crenellated as it more aptly describes a linear building technology with notches and merlons.



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Excellent. Thanks.

[GGGMT]

Thanks for giving us some cool knowledge!


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[Dougiebaby]

I owned one for 24 years...





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[TonyD]

Perhaps some reference to the machine itself? Turned means a lathe. There are several kinds and some of the bigger ones are referred to as "engine lathes". I wonder if that has to do with it?

While a smaller lathe may be used to cut metal, some features such as a knurl are actually formed by pushing a tool into the metal. Its takes a LOT of force to do this, thus the big engine lathe.

Just a theory......

[Tools]

Originally Posted by TonyD

Perhaps some reference to the machine itself? Turned means a lathe. There are several kinds and some of the bigger ones are referred to as "engine lathes". I wonder if that has to do with it?

. . . .....

The bezel would be chucked up in a turning machine (lathe) and indexed for each of the decorations to be cut. The actual cuts would be made by a separate machine process that moves in and out as the bezel rotates in front of it and stops at each indexed spot.

The Explorer II bezels are done similarly. They are chucked up in the lathe and slowly turned in front of a grinding wheel that cuts the radial mark design we see along the edge. So, the Explorer II also has a "machine edge", we just don't call it that.

[miamiclay]

Originally Posted by Tools

The bezel would be chucked up in a turning machine (lathe) and indexed for each of the decorations to be cut. The actual cuts would be made by a separate machine process that moves in and out as the bezel rotates in front of it and stops at each indexed spot.

Somehow this description was able to enter my thick skull and make sense - Thanks 1M!

[Finslayer83]

Originally Posted by Tools

The bezel would be chucked up in a turning machine (lathe) and indexed for each of the decorations to be cut. The actual cuts would be made by a separate machine process that moves in and out as the bezel rotates in front of it and stops at each indexed spot.

The Explorer II bezels are done similarly. They are chucked up in the lathe and slowly turned in front of a grinding wheel that cuts the radial mark design we see along the edge. So, the Explorer II also has a "machine edge", we just don't call it that.

some explorer bezels too

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by Finslayer83

some explorer bezels too

Very nice!

[jimcameron]

I have a ss dj 36 jubilee with the Engine Turned bezel. It was given to me by a lifetime friend owned it for about 30 years before passing it on to me. I never new the meaning of engine turned, you guys are the best. Thanks

[samson66]

Great question, I aways wondered that myself

[2001jesper]

Are all engine-turned bezels steel or have they alternated between metals?

[springbar]

Originally Posted by 2001jesper

Are all engine-turned bezels steel or have they alternated between metals?

They were also available in gold.

[2001jesper]

Originally Posted by springbar

They were also available in gold.

Thanks

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by springbar

They were also available in gold.

Those ones are my favourite!! Thanks for sharing.

On steel, I love the early ones, from the '60s.
Universal Geneve used them as well, also on gold.

[bigfatpauli]

They say "engine turned" because it pre-dates Rolex-isms so they just pulled a name out of hat.

Today it would be called a "Rolemill" or "Rolengine" bezel.

[Yaz]

Hey guys !

I do not want to open an other thread if the information is already available, I am looking for DateJust references and timeline history in order to get more information like:
What is the period of production of Datejusts with engine turned bezel and which references are with this configuration (1603 and 1622x only ?).
Thanks for your help.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Yaz

Hey guys !

I do not want to open an other thread if the information is already available, I am looking for DateJust references and timeline history in order to get more information like:
What is the period of production of Datejusts with engine turned bezel and which references are with this configuration (1603 and 1622x only ?).
Thanks for your help.

I suggest you start a new thread in the vintage section.

[Yaz]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I suggest you start a new thread in the vintage section.

Thanks.
Ok for me.