+/- 2 seconds - for how long?

[joemack83]

Ok this could be a silly question; but how long does the accuracy of a watch usually last for?

I mean as the watch ages does the accuracy deviate in any manner?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by joemack83

Ok this could be a silly question; but how long does the accuracy of a watch usually last for?

I mean as the watch ages does the accuracy deviate in any manner?

How long is a piece of string when tested on a machine in a controlled environment movement could pass the -2+2 spec at time of testing.But on the wrist thats a different matter as there are many many variables to overcome.Such as earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction,mainspring power-reserve, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, and so on.So its possible watches could deviate by a second or so almost daily, then by resting overnight in different positions could balance out. But once time keeping drifts way outside spec watch will need regulation a very simple task.Just because its been tested on a machine to -2+2 this done mean it will be exactly the same every day for life its mechanical.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by padi56

How long is a piece of string when tested on a machine in a controlled environment movement could pass the -2+2 spec at time of testing.But on the wrist thats a different matter as there are many many variables to overcome.Such as earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction,mainspring power-reserve, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, and so on.So its possible watches could deviate by a second or so almost daily, then by resting overnight in different positions could balance out. But once time keeping drifts way outside spec watch will need regulation a very simple task.Just because its been tested on a machine to -2+2 this done mean it will be exactly the same every day for life its mechanical.

No other answer is required

[AJV_36]

Originally Posted by padi56

How long is a piece of string when tested on a machine in a controlled environment movement could pass the -2+2 spec at time of testing.But on the wrist thats a different matter as there are many many variables to overcome.Such as earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction,mainspring power-reserve, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, and so on.So its possible watches could deviate by a second or so almost daily, then by resting overnight in different positions could balance out. But once time keeping drifts way outside spec watch will need regulation a very simple task.Just because its been tested on a machine to -2+2 this done mean it will be exactly the same every day for life its mechanical.

Exactly! Very well stated!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by padi56

How long is a piece of string when tested on a machine in a controlled environment movement could pass the -2+2 spec at time of testing.But on the wrist thats a different matter as there are many many variables to overcome.Such as earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction,mainspring power-reserve, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, and so on.So its possible watches could deviate by a second or so almost daily, then by resting overnight in different positions could balance out. But once time keeping drifts way outside spec watch will need regulation a very simple task.Just because its been tested on a machine to -2+2 this done mean it will be exactly the same every day for life its mechanical.

What he said, nothing else needs to be said

[Butchh]

Originally Posted by padi56

How long is a piece of string when tested on a machine in a controlled environment movement could pass the -2+2 spec at time of testing.But on the wrist thats a different matter as there are many many variables to overcome.Such as earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction,mainspring power-reserve, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, and so on.So its possible watches could deviate by a second or so almost daily, then by resting overnight in different positions could balance out. But once time keeping drifts way outside spec watch will need regulation a very simple task.Just because its been tested on a machine to -2+2 this done mean it will be exactly the same every day for life its mechanical.

Not only a great answer, Pete, but tremendous advice for all!!!

[No SUBctitute]

Originally Posted by padi56

But on the wrist thats a different matter as there are many many variables to overcome.Such as earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction,mainspring power-reserve, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, and so on.

Gravity, temperature, metal expansion, other environmental factors.......is there any evidence that these factors affect a new Rolex watch enough to prevent it from operating within the -2/+2 parameters that it is tested to? I'm genuinely interested in a scientific answer.

The Rolex tests are supposed to mimic human movement, ostensibly so that a Rolex will operate within those parameters on the wrist. Rolex obviously thinks so, given that they will accept a watch for warranty repair if it is not operating within that parameter (whether one actually wants to send in a watch for that is a different question altogether....*cough* scratched case!).

If a Rolex wearer is moving enough to keep the watch wound, then I think Rolex expects it to operate within -2/+2. I'm not sure that main spring reserve, gravity, temperature, metal expansion, or similar environmental conditions are enough to prevent -2/+2 operation. Now, of course, things like lubrication, a shock, or something else that requires service/repair can certainly affect the accuracy enough to knock it out of Rolex spec. I'd love to see some scientific tests on this. Its an interesting topic for those of us who appreciate engineering, tolerances, and mechanics.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by No SUBctitute

Gravity, temperature, metal expansion, other environmental factors.......is there any evidence that these factors affect a new Rolex watch enough to prevent it from operating within the -2/+2 parameters that it is tested to? I'm genuinely interested in a scientific answer.

The Rolex tests are supposed to mimic human movement, ostensibly so that a Rolex will operate within those parameters on the wrist. Rolex obviously thinks so, given that they will accept a watch for warranty repair if it is not operating within that parameter (whether one actually wants to send in a watch for that is a different question altogether....*cough* scratched case!).

If a Rolex wearer is moving enough to keep the watch wound, then I think Rolex expects it to operate within -2/+2. I'm not sure that main spring reserve, gravity, temperature, metal expansion, or similar environmental conditions are enough to prevent -2/+2 operation. Now, of course, things like lubrication, a shock, or something else that requires service/repair can certainly affect the accuracy enough to knock it out of Rolex spec. I'd love to see some scientific tests on this. Its an interesting topic for those of us who appreciate engineering, tolerances, and mechanics.

Put a modern watch on a timegrapher and see the positional error delta across the four vertical positions (crown up, down, left and right) - Gravity

Subject your watch to extreme high and low temperatures and you may find issues relating to oil viscosity. Metal expansion less likely.

Environmental factors (including user interference) - The list is long but to name a few you have magnetism (still an issue on many calibres), prolonged vibration causes erratic timekeeping during the exposure period but does not create any permanent change. Rapid acceleration/deceleration forces such as when running or clapping hands can provide the same instantaneous errors as vibration without long term effect as well.

Pretty much all of these can be verified by sticking a watch on a timegrapher and creating the relevant stimuli.

[peterpl]

My GMT master 2 was running -2 for years. Now its constant -4s/day.

Not bothered and I've had it for almost 5 years. My Sub on the other hand has been -2 for 4 years straight.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by joemack83

Ok this could be a silly question; but how long does the accuracy of a watch usually last for?

I mean as the watch ages does the accuracy deviate in any manner?

No idea, because nothing in my life requires this level of accuracy.

[mrricks]

My 1680 after forty years was 3 minutes fast per month. I never paid attention for the first 30 years and it may have been that accurate from the beginning. I was quite satisfied with that.
My new YM has gone from 1.5 seconds slow daily to now, after one year has settled down to .66 seconds slow.
So maybe gets more accurate over times.

[othertbone]

Originally Posted by The Libertine

No idea, because nothing in my life requires this level of accuracy.

Yep I never notice either. I swap out watches a couple times a week so I'm resetting my watches all the time, and not even to the second anyways.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by othertbone

Yep I never notice either. I swap out watches a couple times a week so I'm resetting my watches all the time, and not even to the second anyways.

Same. Candidly, I could not tell you the +/- for any of my watches!

[ROLEXster]

My 2006 sub was at +2 on day 1.
2018 was at +9.

Quick and cheap regulation done and now it's +/-0

[77T]

I’m going to add onto what Peter said - with a possible twist - now that Rolex is double testing all its watches to this -2/+2 internal specification.

My conclusion is that a new Rolex that’s worn daily, wound 40 full crown rotations each morning, and not damaged by severe treatment, will keep its -2/+2 accuracy for years to come. I say wind it if you care about super accurate timekeeping to eliminate any variance induced by a partially depleted power supply.

That is, accuracy measured as an average over a 2 week period - not going to say -2/+2 each and everyday...

Now here’s what I offer to help explain my opinion:

For decades, Rolex only sent movements to COSC’s facilities for testing - they didn’t do much after this step. The COSC tested the uncased movement for 15 days in 5 positions, 3 temperatures and checked to run within their spec of -4/+6 seconds per day (on average).

But a few years back, Rolex decided to go a step further to -2/+2 and instituted more testing internally. This is the second step of testing that wasn’t done before.

Rolex adjusts the movements and cases them in their new model form. Then a proprietary testing methodology commences that simulates some real-world conditions. This includes simulated situations a watch is actually worn. A lot of research on daily human activity went into this new methodology to imitate a “real-life experience” of the watch’s owner.

If a movement doesn’t perform to the new spec then it is readjusted and goes back through the process. You might say it is “broken in” by this process.

So it ought to perform as you expect from the adverts you’ve seen.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Seibei]

Originally Posted by 77T

My conclusion is that a new Rolex that’s worn daily, wound 40 full crown rotations each morning, and not damaged by severe treatment, will keep its -2/+2 accuracy for years to come. I say wind it if you care about super accurate timekeeping to eliminate any variance induced by a partially depleted power supply.

I never wind my Rolex since it is an automatic watch and there is no need for it. The watch is accurate, regardless of whether or not the power supply is partially depleted.

Your regime over 10 years has 3650 crown manipulations and 146000 manual winds. I would say that this is approaching severe treatment since the watch is not designed for this kind of use.

As far as I am concerned the +2/-2 accuracy should last for at least 10 years, as long as you use the watch the way it was designed to be used.

[Bluside]

I used to worry and check about these things. I don't anymore.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by Seibei

I never wind my Rolex since it is an automatic watch and there is no need for it. The watch is accurate, regardless of whether or not the power supply is partially depleted.

Your regime over 10 years has 3650 crown manipulations and 146000 manual winds. I would say that this is approaching severe treatment since the watch is not designed for this kind of use.

As far as I am concerned the +2/-2 accuracy should last for at least 10 years, as long as you use the watch the way it was designed to be used.

Yes, agree with this, if your Rolex is your only watch and worn daily then it should be +2/-2 for a long time, if you regularly check your watch against a reference time then you will know when its accuracy has dropped and you can have the watch regulated/serviced accordingly.

However, many people have more than one watch so either keep the watch on a watch winder (if you have one) or if not used regularly wind once a month or when you are going to wear it if sooner.

I don't believe that you need to wind a Rolex watch daily.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Seibei

I never wind my Rolex since it is an automatic watch and there is no need for it. The watch is accurate, regardless of whether or not the power supply is partially depleted.



Your regime over 10 years has 3650 crown manipulations and 146000 manual winds. I would say that this is approaching severe treatment since the watch is not designed for this kind of use.



As far as I am concerned the +2/-2 accuracy should last for at least 10 years, as long as you use the watch the way it was designed to be used.

I’m fine with the choice you make.

I do agree it’s a lot of winding - I don’t do it myself - I only mention it if someone is obsessive about eliminating any potential issue.

I’m fine if I average a few minutes a month.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Rolexoman]

What Peter said

[Onikage]

You should probably go for a quartz. This kind of stress and worry and winding the crap out of your watch every day for consistent power reserve etc just isn't worth it.

[Catatafish]

I don't understand the derision for those of us who value accuracy. That IS the enjoyment for many of us. My watch, my motorcycle, my guitar....these are all engineering marvels to me. If I paid $3k for a Gibson it better have a perfect intonation and if it didn't would you tell me I should just go buy Guitar Hero on Playstation?

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by Catatafish

I don't understand the derision for those of us who value accuracy. That IS the enjoyment for many of us. My watch, my motorcycle, my guitar....these are all engineering marvels to me. If I paid $3k for a Gibson it better have a perfect intonation and if it didn't would you tell me I should just go buy Guitar Hero on Playstation?

I don’t know much about guitars, not 100% sure what “intonation” means, but I’m willing to bet your $3,000 Gibson doesn’t have perfect intonation. Which is fine. And yes, I am sure there are more accurate/perfect digital options available.

[MARGARITATIME]

I check my watches when I buy a new one on the timer. For the first few months I periodically check off my Gshock. My new watch was +/-1 per day. My older sub LV was +/-4 per week. After that I stopped caring. Since I switch watches daily I end up having to set the time usually. Too lazy to put them in the winder. People say the winder is not good, but can bet that the crown will break first if you constantly set/wind manually. Even then I don't care since it will go in for service at that point. All mechanical watches overtime will lose accuracy. Parts wear out and lube dries up.

[akilis]

Originally Posted by joemack83

Ok this could be a silly question; but how long does the accuracy of a watch usually last for?

I mean as the watch ages does the accuracy deviate in any manner?

I think the newer model you should do the full service every 10 years.. older one about 7 years

[Bill_H]

I can't give any numbers for how long it will be accurate, but by design Rolex movements should run accurately for a relatively long time because of a few features that are rare on lower end movements:

1.) Full balance bridge - the balance wheel on a Rolex is secured with a bridge that is connected to the main plate on both sides of the wheel. Most watches use a single cantilevered beam to hold the balance. As a result, the balance wheel on a Rolex is held in a more rigid structure

2.) Microstella adjustment nuts - A Rolex is regulated by adjusting tiny nuts on the balance wheel. Most other watches use a lever to adjust the hairspring tension. This lever can be bumped out of adjustment more easily than the microstella nuts.

There are some other features that help with overall consistency like the Breguet overcoil hairspring and the hairspring and balance wheel materials, but they probably have a greater effect on short term accuracy.

[jimcameron]

35 years, never a moment wasted on this worry.

[HogwldFLTR]

The watch should be able to be set-up to +/- 2 secs. If it drifts it can be adjusted. If it can't be adjusted it can be serviced and adjusted. It just take desire, time, and money. Enjoy your watch. I agree that nothing really requires this sort of accuracy.