116610LN power reserve issue

[Muhle]

I wound my 2012 116610LN yesterday 30 times as it hasn’t been worn in a while, set the time and wore it all day. Today it’s stopped when I’ve picked it back up this evening. So it’s stopped approximately 24 hours after initial winding. Without winding and just picking up the watch it starts again for a few seconds, so the automatic mechanism is obviously working.

I’m sure a service will resolve the issue but I am just interested if anyone has had this issue before and what it could be ?

Thanks


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[Boaters]

Sounds like it is not fully wound. Give it a full 50 to 60 turns and see if that corrects the problem.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by Boaters

Sounds like it is not fully wound. Give it a full 50 to 60 turns and see if that corrects the problem.

This. You can't overwind it so you can give it 50, 60, 80+ turns to ensure it's wound if you want to test the PR.

[Steerpike999]

I usually wind my watches 40+ turns when completely stopped. Then wear through the day.
May be a combination of too few winds and not enough movement through the day?

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Muhle

. . . Today it’s stopped when I’ve picked it back up this evening. So it’s stopped approximately 24 hours after initial winding. Without winding and just picking up the watch it starts again for a few seconds, so the automatic mechanism is obviously working.
. . .

I would say that this demonstration would more indicate that the auto-wind module was not working.

You partially wound it yesterday, and it ran for ~24 hours. Wearing it for the day should have added to that partial wind, but appears not to have.

[Muhle]

Originally Posted by Tools

I would say that this demonstration would more indicate that the auto-wind module was not working.



You partially wound it yesterday, and it ran for ~24 hours. Wearing it for the day should have added to that partial wind, but appears not to have.

Thanks for the replies. That’s the part I’m confused about. If I pick the watch up when stopped and move the rotor by shaking it it starts again for about 30 seconds, which to me says the auto wind does work.

Any help is great. Thanks


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[padi56]

Originally Posted by Muhle

Thanks for the replies. That’s the part I’m confused about. If I pick the watch up when stopped and move the rotor by shaking it it starts again for about 30 seconds, which to me says the auto wind does work.

Any help is great. Thanks


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Just because you are wearing the watch does not mean you are winding the movement, its wrist movement that winds the watch.And when winding, wind full crown turns clockwise only, as they manually wind on the forward wind.And from stopped would need 40 plus full crown turns to fully wind mainspring.After a full manual wind watch should run between 39-48 hours give or take a hour or so off wrist.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by padi56

Just because you are wearing the watch does not mean you are winding the movement, its wrist movement that winds the watch.And when winding, wind full crown turns clockwise only, as they manually wind on the forward wind.And from stopped would need 40 plus full crown turns to fully wind mainspring.After a full manual wind watch should run between 39-48 hours give or take a hour or so off wrist.

I agree. I don't think anything is wrong with the OP's watch other than not giving the full 40 turns and not enough kinetic energy on the wrist to wind the rest of the way. 24 hours is exactly where I would guess 30 winds would get you with only wearing a portion of that time. Plus what many of us think are 30 turns when winding are actually lower. 40 full turns during winding until the clutch slips and 48 hours should be no problem. OP curious what your results are trying the above? I wouldn't hastily send to RSC without more experimentation on your end.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Muhle

Thanks for the replies. That’s the part I’m confused about. If I pick the watch up when stopped and move the rotor by shaking it it starts again for about 30 seconds, which to me says the auto wind does work.

Any help is great. Thanks


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I don't know I would say you're just getting a very small charge by shaking. Btw while they can take it, shaking is really only an appropriate way to start your Seikos. At least imo

[ernie117]

send it to rsc center to have them look at the watch for a day or 2

[Andad]

Just picking up the watch and shaking it will start it running.

This does not mean the auto winder is functioning correctly.

As has been said wind it fully and check the PR.

If that pans out then fully wind it, wear it and let us know the result.

[Muhle]

Just wound the power reserve 60 times, it took 30 turns to start the second hand, which is strange considering as soon as you move it (before winding and give it a shake) the second hand moves for 60 seconds then stops again.

Thanks


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[Tools]

Originally Posted by Muhle

Just wound the power reserve 60 times, it took 30 turns to start the second hand, which is strange considering as soon as you move it (before winding and give it a shake) the second hand moves for 60 seconds then stops again.

It only takes a bit of movement to start the oscillation of the balance - the watch will "tick" for a few seconds by momentum alone.

It does not mean that anything has been wound. It would take 1,300 "winds" of the rotor counter-weight to fully wind your watch if it was working.

[Muhle]

Just carrying out the power test now.

I just can’t work out how a little shake provides energy for it to start yet it’s taken 30 winds for the second hand to start? Surely if everything was ok it would start on the first wind? Thanks


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[904VT]

Originally Posted by Muhle

Just carrying out the power test now.

I just can’t work out how a little shake provides energy for it to start yet it’s taken 30 winds for the second hand to start? Surely if everything was ok it would start on the first wind? Thanks


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It usually takes very minimum of 20+ winds to get a current Rolex watch moving. 30 if you account for the fact that most turns probably aren't full rotations that we count. Shaking could certainly get it started, heck some watches start at ADs from lots of handling (see no reason to shake a nice watch though). Imo it's more likely to be an issue with your winding crown than your automatic rotor if any.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Muhle

. . .
I just can’t work out how a little shake provides energy for it to start yet it’s taken 30 winds for the second hand to start? Surely if everything was ok it would start on the first wind? Thanks

The crown is not an on/off switch.

A mechanical watch has 200 intermeshing parts that need to overcome torque and friction before the works can begin movement. A few winds of the mainspring isn't going to provide much power to get the train moving if everything isn't already set to go.

[Muhle]

Originally Posted by Tools

The crown is not an on/off switch.



A mechanical watch has 200 intermeshing parts that need to overcome torque and friction before the works can begin movement. A few winds of the mainspring isn't going to provide much power to get the train moving if everything isn't already set to go.

Yes I understand that, but what I’m asking is if it takes that much to get it going, why will a gentle shake making the automatic rotor make it move straight away?


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[padi56]

Originally Posted by Muhle

Yes I understand that, but what I’m asking is if it takes that much to get it going, why will a gentle shake making the automatic rotor make it move straight away?


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Simple answer when you shake it that makes the balance wheel spin slightly which in turn starts the escapement pallet fork which then enables the movement to start for a few ticks and nothing to do with the rotor.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by padi56

Simple answer when you shake it that makes the balance wheel spin slightly which in turn starts the escapement pallet fork which then enables the movement to start for a few ticks and nothing to do with the rotor.

Bingo

[Muhle]

Originally Posted by padi56

Simple answer when you shake it that makes the balance wheel spin slightly which in turn starts the escapement pallet fork which then enables the movement to start for a few ticks and nothing to do with the rotor.

Great, thanks!


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[Boaters]

Is it good ???

[Muhle]

Ok so after 60 winds it lasted 23hrs 16 mins...


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[Muhle]

Originally Posted by Muhle

Ok so after 60 winds it lasted 23hrs 16 mins...


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I’ve also just put it in the watch winder again and it’s been running for half an hour without winding the crown. Obviously it seems a power reserve issue, is that mainspring weakness? Is this replaced part of a RSC service ?


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[Muhle]

Interestingly, after 10 minutes in the watch winder I took it out and it’s been running for 16 hours and still going...


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[padi56]

Originally Posted by Muhle

Interestingly, after 10 minutes in the watch winder I took it out and it’s been running for 16 hours and still going...


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If you are winding correctly full 360 degrees crown turns clockwise only, with that power-reserve of around 23 hours you could have a problem.Perhaps spring-barrel is worn or mainspring is weak thus not giving full power,at normal routine service the mainspring is always changed as part of service.

[Muhle]

Originally Posted by padi56

If you are winding correctly full 360 degrees crown turns clockwise only, with that power-reserve of around 23 hours you could have a problem.Perhaps spring-barrel is worn or mainspring is weak thus not giving full power,at normal routine service the mainspring is always changed as part of service.

I don’t use it much, I probably wear it one weekend a month, has been the same for the last 6 years. I’ve never had this problem previously I’ve only ever wound the crown 30 ‘half’ turns using the ratchet and it’s always been I can put it down Saturday evening and pick it up Sunday evening and it’s still going, that’s not been the case over the last few


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[Muhle]

I don’t use it much, I probably wear it one weekend a month, has been the same for the last 6 years. I’ve never had this problem previously I’ve only ever wound the crown 30 ‘half’ turns using the ratchet and it’s always been I can put it down Saturday evening and pick it up Sunday evening and it’s still going, that’s not been the case over the last few months


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[Muhle]

Wound the crown 60 times yesterday morning at 8am, wore the whole day, took it off at 12am and it’s stopped this morning at 10am... doesn’t seem to make sense with the power reserve test or after it had been in the winder


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[cop414]

Unfortunately it would seem that a trip to a service center is in order.

[Robtayham]

I’d agree with taking it to a RSC. It seems that you’ve done every variation of winding and ‘moving’ the watch and it still has less PR than it used to. It’s been 6 years, maybe it’s time for a service.

I’m sure the PR is a common question, but regardless, good thread. Nice to read about something other than ‘limited supply’.