So that's how they do that

[twnturbo]

Now I see how they get those crisp edges on beat up watches haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[offrdmania]

A very controversial subject for vintage watches

[roh123]

Personally I prefer the worn bevel compared to the ugly recut lug. It looks way better.

[athom]

Originally Posted by roh123

Personally I prefer the worn bevel compared to the ugly recut lug. It looks way better.

+1 ! I barely understand to do that on overpolished cases but on old cases with still important chamfers it is a nonsense...

[JD305]

This is pretty amazing how they can get the edges back to original!

I guess the debate is between purist collectors (keep it as it is), and those that are looking to get back the original look, along with new crystal and new crown. Is this any different than those the own antique cars and perform body work?

I understand if you have a vintage piece where the box and paperwork is intact, however if you picked up a vintage Sub or GMT and want to have it serviced? The movement would obviously need to be overhauled. If the case edges are overpolished or really dinged, or the caseback/case have significant pitting ... would one want to have this repaired in order to keep the watch water proofing? The issue I do see with laser welding the case is that you will probably have to replace the bezel, otherwise you have this new looking case, with an old and polished bezel. You then you lose that "in original condition"?

I guess "original" condition is relative .. it can have 1 polish or 5 polishes? is the edge intact?

[bayerische]

I'd take the redone lug everyday. Hate the over polished sticks we see on almost every Rolex these days. A fool and his capecod.....

[zapokee]

Very nice if declared at sale, but therein lies the problem...

[roh123]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Very nice if declared at sale, but therein lies the problem...

Not like it is difficult to spot something recently recut.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by roh123

Not like it is difficult to spot something recently recut.

This is true. Pristine chamfers on a 40/50-year-old watch are a tell-tale sign.

But if it's been recut then worn hard for a few years... Honestly most people (sellers and buyers alike) would struggle to tell the difference.

It's getting scary.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by zapokee

This is true. Pristine chamfers on a 40/50-year-old watch are a tell-tale sign.

But if it's been recut then worn hard for a few years... Honestly most people (sellers and buyers alike) would struggle to tell the difference.

It's getting scary.

Perhaps. I still think people used to handle good watches will notice.

But yes; of course it should be disclosed when sold. Far from all buyers know what they do.

[JD305]

This make authentication a bit more challenging ... and a trusted seller will have to be certain that the description they are providing is accurate, else they lose their credibility. Curious to know if laser welded can be seen un UV light or some other easily available method ... for those sellers that claim 100% crisp case edges.

Very old case sets are made of 304 stainless which was subject to pitting between case and caseback. Also, vintage cases have tell tale signs of end link dents and dings.

Originally Posted by zapokee

This is true. Pristine chamfers on a 40/50-year-old watch are a tell-tale sign.

But if it's been recut then worn hard for a few years... Honestly most people (sellers and buyers alike) would struggle to tell the difference.

It's getting scary.

[Dan S]

While it looks good, you can see that the new profile is obviously not very similar to the original.

[JD305]

true! ... the original edge would have been wider as it approaches the lug curve?

Originally Posted by Dan S

While it looks good, you can see that the new profile is obviously not very similar to the original.

[1watch]

To each their own...but to purist collectors that value originality, I would recommend preserving the case condition if it was unpolished and solid. It keeps the dimensions correct and is worth much more than a recut case. The recuts look too good if recent as well for the age of the watch. I also think some are trying to pass off pieces with past case work as unpolished and it takes study and expert opinion to validate condition. A true unpolished case is getting harder to find on many acrylic crystal sport model pieces and is becoming a much greater contributor to collector value these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by 1watch

To each their own...but to purist collectors like myself that value originality, I would keep the case original if it was unpolished.

If the case was unpolished there'd be no need to do any recutting/laser-welding. The cases that are getting laser-welding work done tend to be the ones that have been either incorrectly, or aggressively badly, polished, or simply way over-polished. And you're right, a true, unpolished plexi is nearly impossible to find on the market these days....contrary to what some sellers claim.

[1watch]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

If the case was unpolished there'd be no need to do any recutting/laser-welding. The cases that are getting laser-welding work done tend to be the ones that have been either incorrectly, or aggressively badly, polished, or simply way over-polished. And you're right, a true, unpolished plexi is nearly impossible to find on the market these days....contrary to what some sellers claim.

I’ve heard some have done case work on original but scratched/dinged pieces as well. It was more a more common practice before original case condition elevated in desire and value for vintage over the past few years. That’s fine if owners do for their enjoyment and don’t intend to sell it trade as an original piece down the road. I currently have three unpolished in my collection and yes, they took time to validate. I also paid a premium for that condition. My issue is when condition is being mis-represented and at a premium price in the market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by 1watch

My issue is when condition is being mis-represented and at a premium price in the market.

Couldn't agree more.

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Couldn't agree more.

Agreed. And this is happening now. Unscrupulous people are offering watches as "NOS" or "unpolished" after having performed this treatment on them. I don't want to pay a premium for a watch like that. This is just one more tool in the toolbox for people to scam others.

I think this practice also potentially dilutes the value of actual NOS/unpolished watches, which are rare but out there, and command and deserve a strong premium as having survived for decades without losing their original attributes.

As always, buy the seller, and if a watch seems too good to be true, pass. Personally, my preference is for the "survivors," watches that haven't been polished but bear the marks indicative of their age. I love finding vintage watches with deep chamfers littered with minor dings and scratches. To me, it's character and tells a bit of the story of the watch's life.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

If the case was unpolished there'd be no need to do any recutting/laser-welding. The cases that are getting laser-welding work done tend to be the ones that have been either incorrectly, or aggressively badly, polished, or simply way over-polished. And you're right, a true, unpolished plexi is nearly impossible to find on the market these days....contrary to what some sellers claim.

Good post Andy. Ratty watches remind me of the rat rods when compared to finely restored vintage hot rods or cars. Some like the ratty original look, but most do not. Personally, ratty original watches, like the one depicted in the photos before it was repaired, would not be something that I would want to add to my collection. Most collectors prefer a nice watch, whether restored or original.

[1watch]

Originally Posted by springer

Good post Andy. Ratty watches remind me of the rat rods when compared to finely restored vintage hot rods or cars. Some like the ratty original look, but most do not. Personally, ratty original watches, like the one depicted in the photos before it was repaired, would not be something that I would want to add to my collection. Most collectors prefer a nice watch, whether restored or original.

Agree. If they look really rough/cosmetically bad and are sympathetically touched up, still very nice pieces to own and enjoy. Honest disclosure is key.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by springer

Good post Andy. Ratty watches remind me of the rat rods when compared to finely restored vintage hot rods or cars. Some like the ratty original look, but most do not. Personally, ratty original watches, like the one depicted in the photos before it was repaired, would not be something that I would want to add to my collection. Most collectors prefer a nice watch, whether restored or original.

Agree Sringer.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by springer

Good post Andy. Ratty watches remind me of the rat rods when compared to finely restored vintage hot rods or cars. Some like the ratty original look, but most do not. Personally, ratty original watches, like the one depicted in the photos before it was repaired, would not be something that I would want to add to my collection. Most collectors prefer a nice watch, whether restored or original.

Actually “rat rods” are about as far from original as you can get. They have been chopped, welded, pieced together from multiple cars, etc.
I think you are referring to original survivor cars and barn finds, definitely not rat rods.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

Actually “rat rods” are about as far from original as you can get. They have been chopped, welded, pieced together from multiple cars, etc.
I think you are referring to original survivor cars and barn finds, definitely not rat rods.

Yes sublovin, very true. They are "ratty" looking cars - hence the name.

[shaunylw]

The vintage market is in a world of trouble in the next 20 years with laser welding. Imagine having a 5512 laser welded now, and wearing it for the next 20 years. It’s going to be extremely difficult to tell if not impossible.

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by shaunylw

The vintage market is in a world of trouble in the next 20 years with laser welding. Imagine having a 5512 laser welded now, and wearing it for the next 20 years. It’s going to be extremely difficult to tell if not impossible.

Check out the link Clay posted or just search the titles for this thread "How to tell if a watch has been restored by laser welding". It can be done quickly and inexpensively. On another note very seriously considering this for my GMT.

[athom]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

Check out the link Clay posted or just search the titles for this thread "How to tell if a watch has been restored by laser welding". It can be done quickly and inexpensively. On another note very seriously considering this for my GMT.

But does the dealer will let you doing that on the watch before you buy it ?

[lupus66]

Originally Posted by shaunylw

The vintage market is in a world of trouble in the next 20 years with laser welding. Imagine having a 5512 laser welded now, and wearing it for the next 20 years. It’s going to be extremely difficult to tell if not impossible.

X rays show welding

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by lupus66

X rays show welding

And who'll have the means to X-ray a prospective watch...? Surely not me!

[1watch]

I think the experts will be able to discern differences in originality. It may just take more vetting than today. That said, it’s not all science and sometimes even experts make honest mistakes in opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1665fan]

Laser welding shoes up As a stain on the metal after the test is done...as far as that pic it’s 3 different watch lugs lol.......the last one looks like factory NOS piece...that guy probably can’t do that