New GMT-II incoming -- some q's re: authenticity

[alelser]

[Mods, if this thread belongs elsewhere (or not at all) I apologize in advance.]

So, I have a new (to me) GMT Master II, Y-serial incoming that I am excited as all get-out about. I have confidence in the seller's integrity, but am still a bit scared of the super-fakes that are out there (what if the seller got duped and never knew?).

I had the seller take some detailed pics for me, and the serial number and ref number engraving look nice and crisp (one, clearly engraved line, no blasting or etching). The hands are in the proper proportions as best I can tell... all the easy tests passed.

My question is this: once it is in my hands in the next day or so, are there any tests that don't require removing the caseback (no access to a removal tool, and not sure if any of the jewelers in my small town would have one) that would help me know that is isn't a "superfake?"

I have access to a precise jeweler's scale and know that the GMTII should come in at 127 grams. Can anyone tell me how many bracelet links this should include?

Not wanting to give the counterfeiters any more info than they already have, I am open to private messages on this topic.

Just trying to set my mind at ease.

Thanks in advance,

-Al-

[WatchSmith]

Forget pics, hands, serial numbers, weight, etc. You MUST open the case and examine the movement to be sure. Until you do, you cannot be 100% sure. The fakes with Swiss movements are so good it can be impossible to tell for sure without looking at the movement. Also, be sure you know what a Rolex movement looks like. Most fakes put Rolex markings on the movement as well. The good news is the movements in the high-end fakes are Swiss ETA movements and look nothing like a Rolex movement, so it's a quick job of spotting a fake once the back is opened. If the Chinese fakers ever start cloning Rolex movements, then it's going to be a huge mess!

[alelser]

Well fooey. Guess I need to order a case opener. I was hoping there might still be a "tell" that would definitively say it was real.

Thanks,

-Al-

[alelser]

Okay, just ordered one from my jewelry supplier (I do silver smithing as a hobby) and paid for overnight shipping so it will be here when the GMT arrives. I saw a quick tutorial on removing casebacks in the Reference Library, and know what the 3185 movement should look like, so keep your fingers crossed for me.

-Al-

[Lion]

I believe the bracelet should have six links on both sides of the case. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will correct me if I'm wrong.
Allelser, good luck in your endeavors!!!

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by alelser

[Mods, if this thread belongs elsewhere (or not at all) I apologize in advance.]

So, I have a new (to me) GMT Master II, Y-serial incoming that I am excited as all get-out about. I have confidence in the seller's integrity, but am still a bit scared of the super-fakes that are out there (what if the seller got duped and never knew?).

Thanks in advance,

-Al-

It belongs in the CLASSICs or Vintage Posts or Deals Gone Wrong or What not to say on a Forum- "Post, already put the money out and its on the way" !

Thanks,
Randy
Ready for another week of "ROLEX Idio-oWNDUM ! "

[swish77]

Another way to double-check authenticity _ although not as good as opening the back yourself _ is to take it to an authorized Rolex dealer and ask them to do pressure and accuracy tests on it with their little machines. They should do it as a courtesy, and if it's a fake, the service counter folks should know right away. (I've used this method twice at Tourneau and it's worked both times, with the service counter confirming the watches as authentic.)

[acce1999]

Originally Posted by alelser

[Mods, if this thread belongs elsewhere (or not at all) I apologize in advance.]

So, I have a new (to me) GMT Master II, Y-serial incoming that I am excited as all get-out about. I have confidence in the seller's integrity, but am still a bit scared of the super-fakes that are out there (what if the seller got duped and never knew?).

I had the seller take some detailed pics for me, and the serial number and ref number engraving look nice and crisp (one, clearly engraved line, no blasting or etching). The hands are in the proper proportions as best I can tell... all the easy tests passed.

My question is this: once it is in my hands in the next day or so, are there any tests that don't require removing the caseback (no access to a removal tool, and not sure if any of the jewelers in my small town would have one) that would help me know that is isn't a "superfake?"

I have access to a precise jeweler's scale and know that the GMTII should come in at 127 grams. Can anyone tell me how many bracelet links this should include?

Not wanting to give the counterfeiters any more info than they already have, I am open to private messages on this topic.

Just trying to set my mind at ease.

Thanks in advance,

-Al-

To the best of my knowledge there are only TWO calibers with independent movement of the 12h hand on GMT models; the Rolex 3185, and the Omega calibers for the Seamaster and Constellation (ETA base). All other (fakes included) use the ETA 2836 with GMT-function, and on those calibers it is the 24 h hand that is independently movable.

I might be wrong, though.

In addition if you listen carefully to the caliber, Rolex calibers offers a ticking sound that NO other caliber do. So, if you have another 31XX caliber to compare with you will notice. In short: Rolexes "sings", whilst others just tick... ;-)

Best,

A

[hflee55]

save yourself the hassle. have it checked out by your local AD to authenticate your watch. no need to second guess yourself on the authenticity.

[alelser]

Sadly, I live about 240 miles from the nearest AD, so that option, while open, is a bit tougher for me.

I'm confident I can spot a so-so fake from a mile away, it's the "Swiss" fakes that scare the heck out of me.

Originally Posted by acce1999

To the best of my knowledge there are only TWO calibers with independent movement of the 12h hand on GMT models; the Rolex 3185, and the Omega calibers for the Seamaster and Constellation (ETA base). All other (fakes included) use the ETA 2836 with GMT-function, and on those calibers it is the 24 h hand that is independently movable.

I might be wrong, though.

In addition if you listen carefully to the caliber, Rolex calibers offers a ticking sound that NO other caliber do. So, if you have another 31XX caliber to compare with you will notice. In short: Rolexes "sings", whilst others just tick... ;-)

Best,

A

That's immensely helpful I have a Datejust from the 90's (3135) and a Sub from the 80's (3035) and I have noticed a distinct and unique sound to the ticking. Also, knowing that the 12 hr hand is the one that sould be independent, and not the 24 hr will be of great service. :)

Regardless, I have a case opener coming tomorrow. I have already told the seller that I would be having the back opened if I could find a local jeweler with the proper tool, and he is fine with that.

Originally Posted by STEELINOX

It belongs in the CLASSICs or Vintage Posts or Deals Gone Wrong or What not to say on a Forum- "Post, already put the money out and its on the way" !

Outstanding advice. I should have just pm'd you right away.

-Al-

[kokovovoru]

Only by oepning the caseback will give you the pceace of mind.

[ijen0311]

I hope it all works out, friend

[unclesallie]

it sounds as though you've done your homework. any AD's in Wyoming?

good luck. let us know what happens.

[alelser]

Originally Posted by unclesallie

it sounds as though you've done your homework. any AD's in Wyoming?

good luck. let us know what happens.

When I was looking to send my Sub in for service, I think I saw that there was one in Jackson (I'm in Casper), but the ones in Ft Collins and Denver, CO are actually closer. Side note: when I explained that to Vivian at the RDSC she was happy to give me instructions on how to package and mail it. :)

Thanks for all the great posts, folks, and the kind welcome to the forum.

-Al-

[postiff]

Originally Posted by alelser

[Mods, if this thread belongs elsewhere (or not at all) I apologize in advance.]

So, I have a new (to me) GMT Master II, Y-serial incoming that I am excited as all get-out about. I have confidence in the seller's integrity, but am still a bit scared of the super-fakes that are out there (what if the seller got duped and never knew?).

I had the seller take some detailed pics for me, and the serial number and ref number engraving look nice and crisp (one, clearly engraved line, no blasting or etching). The hands are in the proper proportions as best I can tell... all the easy tests passed.

My question is this: once it is in my hands in the next day or so, are there any tests that don't require removing the caseback (no access to a removal tool, and not sure if any of the jewelers in my small town would have one) that would help me know that is isn't a "superfake?"

I have access to a precise jeweler's scale and know that the GMTII should come in at 127 grams. Can anyone tell me how many bracelet links this should include?

Not wanting to give the counterfeiters any more info than they already have, I am open to private messages on this topic.

Just trying to set my mind at ease.

Thanks in advance,

-Al-

Check the quick set date function. If you can just move the date and no hands I think that is wrong? The hour hand should still move around while the date changes. The date should not move on its own.

[JCirillo]

I have seen quite a few counterfeit Rolex in my time, from the $25 Canal St variety to much more expensive "swiss" fakes in Shanghai and Hong Kong. I have never seen one that would have fooled a WIS on this forum (admittedly many of us know a little too much about things like ticking noises, winding feel and the look between grades of sapphire glass and 904L vs 316L steel).
Now fooling a salesperson at Tourneau on the other hand, that's easy....

[karmatp]

I would have just hit your local AD and had them open it up, this way they could look at the seals also and make sure everything is OK. It is a Y serial so I personally want to make sure the watch is waterproof. Best of luck and post some pics when you are settled in with her.

[alelser]

Well, it's real (authentic 3185 movement under the hood), but the gentleman who sold it, not being a watch guy, wasn't great about describing the condition. He has agreed to take it back.

My main concern was the case was over-polished and one lug in particular was quite thin -- something that simply did not show in the pictures.

So, off it goes back tomorrow. The seller is a true gentleman. Many lessons learned on my part.

Thanks again for the help, everyone.

-Al-