Rolex 904L steel question..

[Tri-National-Man]

I saw a Rolex advertisement in latest National Geographic saying that all their cases are made with 904L . Does this mean that bracelets are not, or are they too??

[SeamasterGMT]

The Deepsea has a 904L bracelet.

[keltzar]

Things may have changed now, but the s/s watches from about 1988 till recently were still using 316L bracelets as far as I know, even after the cases went 904L.

May have also made more sense - less allergy problems with 316L than 904L.

[nylawbiz]

I believe the newer clasps are also 904L.

[JG99]

A bit of googling around suggests the GMT Master IIc is. There is a nice little video on youtube about 904L steel from Rolex if anyone is interested.

[DSJ]

There are NUMBEROUS threads about 904L on TRF.

[padi56]

IMHO the use of 904L is just pure marketing hype and there are many posts on TRF on this subject.904L S.steel was developed originally for its resistance to sulphuric acid and shows a little bit more resistance to acid corrosion than 316L.So if you don't put your hands and watch into corrosive substances. It shows little or no advantage to the normal 316L thats used by the rest of the watch industry.And in many ways 316L is superior to 904L if 904L was so special don't you think all high end brands would use it.But the fact that it cost more is just a marketing bragging factor and remember another marketing brag, it takes a whole year to make a Rolex.

904L S.steel typical applications include
Processing plant for sulphuric, phosphoric, and acetic acids, vinegar pickling condiment factories.
Pulp and paper processing

Components in gas scrubbing plants

Seawater cooling equipment

Oil refinery components

Wires in electrostatic precipitations

Well as far as I know Rolex is the only manufacturer to use this kind of 904L steel Stainless steel for the purpose of watch case part making its slightly more corrosion resistant than industry standard (316L)AISI 904L is a optimum choice for manufacturing of stainless steel for use in chemical corrosive plants and it offers a very high resistant to seawater corrosion.But IMO now because of the high nickel content,904L its only used on the parts with no direct skin contact like case ring pins etc.And as far as I am aware only certain parts of your Rolex are 904L the rest according to a Rolex employee the more common 316L but this could have changed.

But I would doubt if Rolex would say that because 904L,is approx 3 times more expensive than the more common 316L.And we all know more expensive is always better. But if 904L was all that superior than the 316L don't you think that all high end brands would use it.IMHO it shows little or no real advantage except one the pure marketing hype factor.



Quote from directly from Rolex employee in 2002/3.
At the moment, we have several companies all over the world, serving our needs for stainless steel. The watch case backs and bracelets are all made of (X2CrNiMo17-12-2 S. steel)( now that is the formula for 316L) which is the best compromise between the attributes of the variant materials. As usual, the steel is melted under vacuum, so we get an very pure base, which is easy to handle and allows an perfect polishing. I think, the same procedure as in every good gold manufacturing company.

[DSJ]

Nice post Padi. My question then, is 316L really that much better for watches than 304 stainless steel? I bought some 304 license plate frames for my cars, and despite 3 winters of salt/sand brine blasting on the front plates they are still rust free (although they do have slight pitting from the sand).

[Whiskey]

If you want to see the difference, put and Omega bracelet and a Rolex bracelet next to each other. Feel the weight.

There is a difference in quality and weight.

My understanding is that an entire Rolex is 904L.

[aleeboy]

After reading Watchtime's article on the DSSD, I now believe that only the case is made of 904L steel (as the post above states). I'm not too fussed about this fact, but I am annoyed that I thought the bracelet was also made of this

[flyback]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

If you want to see the difference, put and Omega bracelet and a Rolex bracelet next to each other. Feel the weight.

There is a difference in quality and weight.

My understanding is that an entire Rolex is 904L.

Both grades have the same density; given the same volume of material they would weigh the same.

[Vanessa CW21]

Originally Posted by flyback

Both grades have the same density; given the same volume of material they would weigh the same.

My understanding is that 904L has less carbon, which makes it lighter.

[RsqVet]

Titanium in general is no harder or softer than 300 series or 904 Stainless.

Specifics watches may vary slightly based on treatment and alloy but both are very much the same ball park.

And unless one is weighing stuff to many decimal places no one is going to notice the weight variance among stainless alloys.

[flyback]

904L will perform better in salt water. And I don't mean weekend dives followed by a shower, I mean constant cycling between immersion in the ocean and exposure to air, with sunlight thrown in to catalyze oxidation. That environment is extremely hard on stainless steels (especially brushed finishes).

In practice this won't make a difference to most people.

[entropydave]

Nope, all made of 904L, cases, bracelets & clasps!

[SeamasterGMT]

316L is hypoallergenic, so if you're allergic to nickel you'd be better off avoiding 904L.

[Xenophon]

Has anyone in the history of Rolex ever had an allergic reaction to their 316L anyway ?

[SeamasterGMT]

No because 316L is hypoallergenic.

[tthopp05]

The DEEPSEA is made with 904L.Braclet and case.

[ninetres]

The case, braclet and clasp are pure 904L. It is harder and more corrosion resistant.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by ninetres

The case, braclet and clasp are pure 904L. It is harder and more corrosion resistant.

Yes it would be more corrosion resistant,but only if you put your watch into some sort of strong acid.Which the average person will never do so in reality little or no better than the 316L.I have dived for most of my life and not a weekend diver,sometimes my watches never seen fresh water for many weeks.But none of my watches Rolex with 316L or any other diving watch had any problem
with salt water corrosion.

[ninetres]

Originally Posted by padi56

Yes it would be more corrosion resistant,but only if you put your watch into some sort of strong acid.Which the average person will never do so in reality little or no better than the 316L.I have dived for most of my life and not a weekend diver,sometimes my watches never seen fresh water for many weeks.But none of my watches Rolex with 316L or any other diving watch had any problem
with salt water corrosion.

Chances are you would never dive 12,000 feet either.....or drive the car you own north of 100mph. Follow me?

904L is also harder. The process in which Rolex alloys it is also quite intensive and facinitaing.

[Armand]

As I understand it, the better corrosion resistance of 904L is because of Sea Water, Sweat and chlorinated Swimminp pool water. And all that together for YEARS.

NOT that this would totally corrode the watch, but to minimise pitting in secluded areas, like threads and joints, e.g. under the bezel, under the end links, in the case back threads ...

Hermann

[SD81]

As far as I am aware, the "special" Rolex steel is more resistant to oxidation as well. They say that this also explains why a Rolex will always have that lovely almost "white" tinge to the steel many years later and it remains looking fresh even after it gets tiny scratches etc. Other watches I have owned look a little duller after a while or heavy use diving etc, no matter how many times you clean them, but my Dweller always looks brand new every single time and has not aged a bit over the years, whereas my Omega Seamaster started to look a little more dull after a while.

I would also note that although I could not attribute this directly to the properties of the steel, my Seamaster looked a lot worse for wear and was riddled in scratches and scuffs, whereas my Dweller seems to stand up the heavy wear a lot better, or it certainly hides it better, a I treat it worse than I did my Omega!!!

[spirotechnique]

Better than any more comments I would like to share with you a picture I have done of 2 samples of SS steel one 316 L and one 904L after various corrosion tests



who said 904L was a marketing gimmick ?

by the way theses tests have been done in my lab, I work as an engineer in the hyperbar industry for geophysics

[Bisquitlips]

I think it all has to do with Rolex wanting to make their timepieces out of the very best material available.

Regardless of whether we would ever expose the 904L to anything close to something that would corrode it doesn't really come into play. The 904L appears to be the best SS out there and that in itself is enough for Rolex to utilize this material.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UuDJl93Z1g

[mixedccr]

Originally Posted by Bisquitlips

I think it all has to do with Rolex wanting to make their timepieces out of the very best material available.

Regardless of whether we would ever expose the 904L to anything close to something that would corrode it doesn't really come into play. The 904L appears to be the best SS out there and that in itself is enough for Rolex to utilize this material.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UuDJl93Z1g

Agree , If rolex had made the DS out of 316L, i'd have bought it. If i had a choice of the DS in both [hypothetical] 316L and 904L, continuing on the theme that the DS is 'best in class', i'd get 904L. If i had a choice between a DS in 904L and Ti?????? Hmmmmmm

[smc]

904L is harder. It's used because it's better than 316. Take a look at a sub bracelet after a year of use and compare it to a planet ocean bracelet or an SMP bracelet or even a Seiko bracelet. The sub will outlast all of them.

[Bullyterrier]

So I guess if any of no one has lab results to disprove spirotechnique's findings then the case is closed. 904 is better

[BASSETHOUNDS]

Look it at this way ; If you are likely to be killed by mobsters that will make your body disappear in an acid bath .. you have a better chance that the crime will be solved when they find your 904L steel watch at the bottom of the bathtub .
just make sure that you comply with :
A : watch duly registered on your name
B : be killed by mobsters that do not recuperate Rolex watches