Daytona prices are softening

[gramo]

Hi all, I hope everyone is keeping safe, I have been sat at home (UK) bored reading all the excellent post from you all, mainly post regarding prices of watches in the near future,

So I thought I would contact the main grey dealer in the UK to see what they would pay for the following watches 1, 2020 SS Daytona White Dial, 2, 2020 Daytona Yellow Gold Green Dial, I picked these two watches as I know they are hard to get watches and would get a better indication were prices are.

1 2020 SS Daytona White Face had a Estimate of £12500 to £13000

2 2020 Daytona Yellow Gold Green Dial had a Estimate of £22000 to £23000

Being this year watches I will presume older watches would be a less estimate.

I believe the prices have softened and would be interested in all of your thoughts.

[tng11]

Looking back at my emails, on February 18th WF bid me 16.4-16.9 GBP for black 116500LN. Around the same time they offered 8,750 GBP for BLRO.

They have way too much inventory that they bought at sky high prices and aren’t moving. They paid me 66K GBP for a 5712 back in September which is still sitting on their site and I’ve seen other greys in the UK ask way less than that.

[Zoran]

Originally Posted by tng11

Looking back at my emails, on February 18th WF bid me 16.4-16.9 GBP for black 116500LN. Around the same time they offered 8,750 GBP for BLRO.

They have way too much inventory that they bought at sky high prices and aren’t moving. They paid me 66K GBP for a 5712 back in September which is still sitting on their site and I’ve seen other greys in the UK ask way less than that.

Man those are some serious prices! 66K GBP for a 5712? I was happy to get 30K Euro for mine when I traded it in back in 2017
You are at good side of that deal so I am very happy for you! I don't see them selling it close to what they gave you

[tng11]

Originally Posted by Zoran

Man those are some serious prices! 66K GBP for a 5712? I was happy to get 30K Euro for mine when I traded it in back in 2017
You are at good side of that deal so I am very happy for you! I don't see them selling it close to what they gave you

Indeed, I'll admit it was almost dumb luck I seem to have caught the peak. Now it's a couple of days from being out of warranty, they'd be lucky to get even 60K USD for it in today's market IMO.

[gaeleus]

Originally Posted by tng11

Indeed, I'll admit it was almost dumb luck I seem to have caught the peak. Now it's a couple of days from being out of warranty, they'd be lucky to get even 60K USD for it in today's market IMO.

I doubt itll move at all in this market... this is going to be a wake up call for most gray dealers

[mr_gray]

so 15,400 USD for the SS Daytona and 27,000 USD for the green dial.

on c24 prices are about 22.5k and 45k respectively.

i have recently sold my own rolex watches to a 2nd hand watch merchant. i know that the $ you get offered is confronting for anyone who spends time on c24. but still this staggers.

offer 27k for a watch and 20k spread to c24 price. it seems that these buyers feel a pm seller has fewer options to sell and so the offer is particularly horrifying.

if anything i'm impressed by the lesser margin on the ss daytona but i suppose thats high volume. and also most owners of that watch would be fairly horrified to hear a number starting with 1 let alone $15k.

i am not, however, sure these numbers indicate a particularly distressed market. just the gut wrenchingly low prices these people offer watch enthusiasts every day :-)

[tng11]

Originally Posted by mr_gray

so 15,400 USD for the SS Daytona and 27,000 USD for the green dial.

on c24 prices are about 22.5k and 45k respectively.

i have recently sold my own rolex watches to a 2nd hand watch merchant. i know that the $ you get offered is confronting for anyone who spends time on c24. but still this staggers.

offer 27k for a watch and 20k spread to c24 price. it seems that these buyers feel a pm seller has fewer options to sell and so the offer is particularly horrifying.

if anything i'm impressed by the lesser margin on the ss daytona but i suppose thats high volume. and also most owners of that watch would be fairly horrified to hear a number starting with 1 let alone $15k.

i am not, however, sure these numbers indicate a particularly distressed market. just the gut wrenchingly low prices these people offer watch enthusiasts every day :-)

WF has been all over the map in the past, but in my experience they've made very high offers on in-demand pieces, with correspondingly high asking prices. In 2019 I sold a few pieces to them at or higher than what US grey dealers were selling for.

[gramo]

Originally Posted by tng11

WF has been all over the map in the past, but in my experience they've made very high offers on in-demand pieces, with correspondingly high asking prices. In 2019 I sold a few pieces to them at or higher than what US grey dealers were selling for.

I agree with the above, the question is what would grays pay today for the same two watches but older watches like 2016 or 2017 year, 10k for SS and 20k Yellow Gold?

[carl5]

Left for me, if there is drop in price then now is the perfect time to get one and i believe there will be increase in price once all this corona pandemic ends.
Have not really checked prices of late though.

[rlx123]

Originally Posted by mr_gray

so 15,400 USD for the SS Daytona and 27,000 USD for the green dial.

on c24 prices are about 22.5k and 45k respectively.

i have recently sold my own rolex watches to a 2nd hand watch merchant. i know that the $ you get offered is confronting for anyone who spends time on c24. but still this staggers.

offer 27k for a watch and 20k spread to c24 price. it seems that these buyers feel a pm seller has fewer options to sell and so the offer is particularly horrifying.

if anything i'm impressed by the lesser margin on the ss daytona but i suppose thats high volume. and also most owners of that watch would be fairly horrified to hear a number starting with 1 let alone $15k.

i am not, however, sure these numbers indicate a particularly distressed market. just the gut wrenchingly low prices these people offer watch enthusiasts every day :-)

Your last sentence gave me a chuckle....a “watch enthusiast” wouldn’t be selling his/her Daytona. Perhaps we can call them flipper as opposed to enthusiast.


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[Goochy]

Its a big, big risk for dealers to be buying anything in these uncertain times, most are sitting on a ton of stock for which they paid good money in a rising market. The prices seem fair to me bearing in mind they have no idea where the market might be in the future. You mention the Daytona as being hard to get but they are plentiful, you could buy 50 today if you were prepared to pay the asking price.

[SkyJuice]

Theres another thread that tracks the softening price.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by SkyJuice

Theres another thread that tracks the softening price.

If we do not discuss it hourly we may forget it may happen. Prices no longer skyrocketing upwards was in the cards no matter what. At some point the prices are no longer sustainable. Alternative use of the money overrides.

[Sandpit]

Offered prices by greys will just be to take advantage of desperate private sellers cashing in or panic selling.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

Offered prices by greys will just be to take advantage of desperate private sellers cashing in or panic selling.

I don't see Rolex or Patek owners as desperate sellers and if they are never should have bought luxury jewellery in the first place

[Xerxes77]

Originally Posted by joli160

I don't see Rolex or Patek owners as desperate sellers and if they are never should have bought luxury jewellery in the first place

You have right Rolex and Patek owners!!

But Rolex and Patek flippers are desperate for sure!!!

[rlx123]

Originally Posted by Xerxes77

You have right Rolex and Patek owners!!



But Rolex and Patek flippers are desperate for sure!!!

Agree


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[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by joli160

I don't see Rolex or Patek owners as desperate sellers and if they are never should have bought luxury jewellery in the first place

They never should, but they did. There will be desperate sellers. Perhaps not patek - but that brand isn't the topic here.

Times were great before all this. Cheap debt, cheap mortgages (back to the good old 95% mortgage days), record stock market prices, businesses booming. There was no accounting for a global pandemic.

But yes, I agree. One should not purchase such things if one can't afford them. Sadly, with the recent trend of people being impatient and wanting to show off - that's exactly what's happened. Many many people will have overstretched themselves.

[airchitect]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

They never should, but they did. There will be desperate sellers. Perhaps not patek - but that brand isn't the topic here.

Times were great before all this. Cheap debt, cheap mortgages (back to the good old 95% mortgage days), record stock market prices, businesses booming. There was no accounting for a global pandemic.

But yes, I agree. One should not purchase such things if one can't afford them. Sadly, with the recent trend of people being impatient and wanting to show off - that's exactly what's happened. Many many people will have overstretched themselves.

I’m on a number of rei forums and have watched them turn from “leverage leverage leverage” to “how to be frugal” in a few weeks. So many ppl are eating it now because they have too much debt and/or too much tied up in idiotic things. A huge McMansion, lavish furnishings, expensive cars, too much jewelry, etc. In our culture, saving is almost considered bad or weak. Your not doing enough if you aren’t risking it all on the next score and “merely” buying one rental property or investing in mutual funds. As far as I am concerned being as debt free as possible is the only true way to independence. Only caveat for me has been that I will put a Rolex (and only a SS sports Rolex) on a card with a low enough rate and let it ride until I feel like paying it off. The 10k lump just seems better suited in a true investment. But for me that’s ok. I have no other what I call “fixed” debt....ie something that’s hard to get rid of (mortgage, car note, student loan) that causes so many people issues everyday.... Anyway, I wish everyone the best of luck during these times whether buying watches, selling, or sitting tight

[Zoran]

Originally Posted by joli160

I don't see Rolex or Patek owners as desperate sellers and if they are never should have bought luxury jewellery in the first place

I agree, but the real watch lovers and collectors as found on this forum might behave this way.
However, the flippers have outweighed the real buyers in the past years in my opinion. Rolex became the most popular watch no one wanted to keep

People who have the Daytona for example today know what they could have gotten over msrp but they bought it for the love of the watch, not the quick resale.
Having said that, knowing you can bank 30K on a 5712 over retail puts many of us on the edge. In the end it's just a watch!

[tng11]

Originally Posted by Zoran

I agree, but the real watch lovers and collectors as found on this forum might behave this way.
However, the flippers have outweighed the real buyers in the past years in my opinion. Rolex became the most popular watch no one wanted to keep

People who have the Daytona for example today know what they could have gotten over msrp but they bought it for the love of the watch, not the quick resale.
Having said that, knowing you can bank 30K on a 5712 over retail puts many of us on the edge. In the end it's just a watch!

I loved the 5712 very much. I hope to own it again soon. I would buy it again if I lost 5K in value the next day like the old days. The opportunity cost of not selling became too real for me when I considered what other watches I could buy with the money. It was 40K nice but not 80K nice. That could get you a perpetual calendar chronograph from PP or ALS. I ended up buying a Lange 1815 Chronograph, which was basically free after selling the 5712. That was an opportunity that would have been ridiculous to pass up.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by tng11

I loved the 5712 very much. I hope to own it again soon. I would buy it again if I lost 5K in value the next day like the old days. The opportunity cost of not selling became too real for me when I considered what other watches I could buy with the money. It was 40K nice but not 80K nice. That could get you a perpetual calendar chronograph from PP or ALS. I ended up buying a Lange 1815 Chronograph, which was basically free after selling the 5712. That was an opportunity that would have been ridiculous to pass up.

Didn’t you buy the black one? I just posted that watch in the ‘what watch beside Rolex would you buy’ thread. Absolute stunner, from the front AND back.

[Zoran]

Originally Posted by tng11

I loved the 5712 very much. I hope to own it again soon. I would buy it again if I lost 5K in value the next day like the old days. The opportunity cost of not selling became too real for me when I considered what other watches I could buy with the money. It was 40K nice but not 80K nice. That could get you a perpetual calendar chronograph from PP or ALS. I ended up buying a Lange 1815 Chronograph, which was basically free after selling the 5712. That was an opportunity that would have been ridiculous to pass up.

Man I feel exactly the same. You did very good and it was a wise move.
That ALS is perhaps even a better looking watch, even more now that it's free

[MAINEZX10]

Originally Posted by sandpit

offered prices by greys will just be to take advantage of desperate private sellers cashing in or panic selling.

+1

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

Offered prices by greys will just be to take advantage of desperate private sellers cashing in or panic selling.

Correct. These offers are not "the market"... but certainly indicative of the dealers wanting more margin to compensate for their holding risk.

[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Correct. These offers are not "the market"... but certainly indicative of the dealers wanting more margin to compensate for their holding risk.

I agree. I've said it before: being in business long term is about maintaining your margin, regardless of whether prices are higher or lower any given cycle. A goof Grey may try to widen the margin on a particular sale because the market moved since acquiring a watch at a higher price in the past that you still hold. It evens out if you can do it so that you make your target margin overall.

People who are looking to score hugely every time aren't in a real business, they are gamblers/speculators.

[JonaG]

Delete

[Andad]

I am interested to know the actual price paid when the watch and the money changes hands?

Instead of an imaginary scenario?

Anyway the Daytona you offered them had some scuffs and needed a service?

[3sheets86]

I have an email from Watchfinder from Nov 12th 2019 offering £20,500-21,000 for a new white Daytona but this had dropped to £17-17,500 Feb 3rd. Corona hadn’t really had an effect on the UK’s buying habits by early Feb IMO so I think they’ve been well over stocked for quite sometime.
If I could get one for 12k I’d probably buy it!

[P2725TMB]

Originally Posted by 3sheets86

I have an email from Watchfinder from Nov 12th 2019 offering £20,500-21,000 for a new white Daytona but this had dropped to £17-17,500 Feb 3rd. Corona hadn’t really had an effect on the UK’s buying habits by early Feb IMO so I think they’ve been well over stocked for quite sometime.
If I could get one for 12k I’d probably buy it!

I was talking to the manager of one of the WF stores in December and he said they had over 80 Daytonas on their books. I supect they will still have most of those now.