Opinions requested on lume from circa 1960 for 1675

[sensui]

Hi all, wanted to get some opinions/expertise regarding lume plots on a pcg gilt 1675 with serial 636xxx. The goal is information as I can't find much information out there (rightfully so I think since the watches aren't as common) in this regard.

First off some pics of the watch is attached.

This is a video of me hitting the watch with uv in a dark closet.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iVjs2Sg62QRxRB6p8

I'd like to get people's opinion if this luminescence is normal for this reference from this time period. I stopped the video but the dial continues to glow for minutes and although you see the hand drop off in the video... It is still very visible in a dark closet as well for another minute or so I'd say.

My understanding from everything I read/certain collectors I've contacted is that this isn't normal but there are some respected opinions coming in that says it is correct also so it has me a bit confused.

I thank you guys for your time in reviewing this.. wanted to post in vrf Facebook group but haven't had success being approved to join the group.

[roh123]

Lume looks ok for 1961. You see the same lume on tulip dial 5512s which usually have 661xxx serial. Color has a tint of green and it lights up a lot from UV. Watch looks nice. Very pretty GMT.

[Michael M.]

This type of luminescence is 100% correct for the period; especially for 1675's from 1960/61. Not sure who told you otherwise, however, they are incorrect.

Looks like a beautiful example! Enjoy.

[Tom1675]

Looks good! Uniform glow and color, and the plots look great. Agree that they were using this color lume in '61, very nice!

[Pocosso]

It looks good to me too.

[greekbum]

Everybody has and is entitled to an opinion this is mine. My opinion is based mainly on that video and the way the lume glows and burns out. Since I don't have the dial in my hands with a loupe to look at the plots the video is enough for me to share my findings and opinions. The lume is still glowing strong over one minute in that video and you say it continues for minutes more. I personally own several early 60-63 pcg 1675's that I have had since the late 80s early 90s. None of those glow any where like it or near as long as the one you show in the video. If I go in a dark room and take my known untouched watches shine even the strongest UV light to them they glow and burn out very fast. A few seconds and a couple linger extremely dim for 15-30 seconds. Same goes for any of the hands and dials both nos and used I have from this period. I am well versed in all lume mixtures from this time frame before and after as well. For me 1-2-3 minutes of glowing strong is way to long. Others may be ok with it glowing this long.

[roh123]

I can agree somewhat with you Nick. Didn’t watch the full video. These glow a lot but glowing strong for minutes sounds a bit much. Charged one of mine I have at home and this is how much it glows after one minute. Hands are basically faded out by that time.




I still think it looks good based on the pictures but I’d be curious what super torch charges that long. ;)

[swish77]

The lume looks very uniform under the UV, even though the hands' glow falls off a little faster than the dial. And in regular light, the lume looks so consistent and matching, and very clean in its application. (Beautiful GMT!)

So, if as Nick suggests, the glow seems too long, what is the alternate theory? That it was relumed? I don't know, but if that's the case it was done incredibly well.

Isn't it possible that this was just a stronger batch of whatever mixture they used back in the day and that it's very well preserved, hence longer glow time? I know that can't be the case with later batches of tritium (late '60s/'70s), but I thought the lume on these old gilt dials could indeed hold a glow for a while.

[sensui]

Originally Posted by swish77

The lume looks very uniform under the UV, even though the hands' glow falls off a little faster than the dial. And in regular light, the lume looks so consistent and matching, and very clean in its application. (Beautiful GMT!)

So, if as Nick suggests, the glow seems too long, what is the alternate theory? That it was relumed? I don't know, but if that's the case it was done incredibly well.

Isn't it possible that this was just a stronger batch of whatever mixture they used back in the day and that it's very well preserved, hence longer glow time? I know that can't be the case with later batches of tritium (late '60s/'70s), but I thought the lume on these old gilt dials could indeed hold a glow for a while.

Precisely what I wanted to know. IMO the plots look pretty good too but the UV test with the way it keeps glowing bugs me. I've reached out to a couple collectors having the same watch/similar serial range early scoc variant and their watch drops off in seconds also.... So I'd like to hear from people in the know that think it's correct why the fluroscent material isn't decayed by the radium after all these years if this kind of luminescence is correct? Thanks for chiming in all.

[sensui]

To be clear. I didn't want to take a video that lasts for minutes as the point is moot. How it is at the end of the video is how it stays for minutes. I can say that the lume stayed very strong to my eyes while I stared at it for 3-5 minutes in the dark closet and it still didn't go completely dim... Just felt like it stayed lit.... I'm not sure if it's my eyes getting used to the darkness? At the end of the video the hands look completely out pretty much but in person, it still looked pretty lit to me and continues to stay lit after in minutes also. I do know after I left it in a dark drawer in the same closet, I came back after 15 minutes.... Shut the light... Let my eyes adjust for s couple minutes and opened the drawer... I couldn't see any glow from the watch.

For reference, this is the uv light I use...

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00...b_b_asin_image

It just seems to me there's a decent number of collectors I've talked to that tells me these briefly light up and go to almost completely dark in less than 5-10 seconds. That's why I think something seems inconsistent here and wanted to see more people's thoughts.

[roh123]

They glow much longer than 5-10s. That said not strong for minutes. Not anything I have handled anyway. It would be interesting to loupe it.

[lee fowler]

My 1963 watch is exactly the same as yours.

[lee fowler]

My 1963 watch glows just like yours and the dial and hands have not been touched in anyway. I know its a little later but hope that helps?

[sensui]

Originally Posted by lee fowler

My 1963 watch glows just like yours and the dial and hands have not been touched in anyway. I know its a little later but hope that helps?

Thanks Lee. That's even more mysterious to me as your underline dial would denote the move to tritium.... So I would expect that to glow even less?

[lee fowler]

Originally Posted by sensui

Thanks Lee. That's even more mysterious to me as your underline dial would denote the move to tritium.... So I would expect that to glow even less?

Yes indeed but also based on the assumption that that is what the Underline means!

[sensui]

Originally Posted by lee fowler

Yes indeed but also based on the assumption that that is what the Underline means!

Excellent point. This is what makes vintage so damn interesting.

Have you ever taken a geiger to the watch?

[lee fowler]

Originally Posted by sensui

Excellent point. This is what makes vintage so damn interesting.

Have you ever taken a geiger to the watch?

As of yet, no. I will reach out and try and find one.

[roh123]

The easiest way to confirm what this is should be to geiger it. Untouched this should geiger something. Not a lot but it should have a reading. If it is redone and glows for minutes it is basically a new relume with some kind of luminova to create a glow. Then you will have a zero reading.

Please take some macros too if you are able. I am curious to see how it looks louped.

[sensui]

Originally Posted by roh123

The easiest way to confirm what this is should be to geiger it. Untouched this should geiger something. Not a lot but it should have a reading. If it is redone and glows for minutes it is basically a new relume with some kind of luminova. Then you will have a zero reading.

Please take some macros if you are able. I am curious to see how it looks louped.

While this is true in general..... People since the 70s/80s have been reluming these dials with radium mixtures (even my watchmaker can attest to this as he's been around for many decades). That's why there was a "fad" of people looking into old clocks for radium since that grade of radium is extremely hard to come by as time moves on.... I would try to take macros but the watch is temporarily out of my hands for now.....

[roh123]

Originally Posted by sensui

While this is true in general..... People since the 70s/80s have been reluming these dials with radium mixtures (even my watchmaker can attest to this as he's been around for many decades). That's why there was a "fad" of people looking into old clocks for radium since that grade of radium is extremely hard to come by as time moves on.... I would try to take macros but the watch is temporarily out of my hands for now.....

And if this is indeed with radium/tritium. Then it is more likely it is original and correct.

Why go through the hazzle to make a perfect relume with old lume if they can’t make it glow as it should? It is a bigger skill to relume that good than to actually create a compbound that fades away quicker.

And what lume would it actually be that glows for minutes if it is not early 60’s lume or luminova? If it geigers it is very likely correct. If not; then it is a modern luminova based lume. Nothing in between.

[1watch]

First off, the watch overall appears to be very nice. It has puffy lume plots, a clean dial, strong case and nice insert. I agree with the comments about the video and have not seen any with radium or tritium lume hold a charge that long. My 1675 gilt is a 69xxxx serial exclamation dial. Under UV light in a dark room, it lights up with a correct green tint. Once the light source is removed, plots and hands fall off gradually over a few seconds. I've seen a similar reaction to UV light in terms of lighting up and gradually falling off at the same rate with my 6263 and 1016 gilt.

[springer]

Originally Posted by 1watch

First off, the watch overall appears to be very nice. It has puffy lume plots, a clean dial, strong case and nice insert. I agree with the comments about the video and have not seen any with radium or tritium lume hold a charge that long. My 1675 gilt is a 69xxxx serial exclamation dial. Under UV light in a dark room, it lights up with a correct green tint. Once the light source is removed, plots and hands fall off gradually over a few seconds. I've seen a similar reaction to UV light in terms of lighting up and gradually falling off at the same rate with my 6263 and 1016 gilt.

Thanks for posting Paul, as well as Greekbum's thoughts. Both of their comments appear spot on based on my experience. I watched sensui's video and the amount of time the dial glows is way tooooo long. In the past, I've owned a few vintage GMT gilts as well as a Submariner tulip 5512 and none of them mimicked what I saw in this video.

I no longer indulge in the vintage gilt watches - there are way too many being misrepresented with altered/colored dials, re-lacquered dials, touched-up dials and/or relumed dials and hands. It' is amazing how many of these watches are being advertised for sale which appear in near mint to never worn condition. Buyers should consider this when looking at vintage gilts in perfect condition. It's too bad and a shame.

[phillip ridley]

Originally Posted by springer

Thanks for posting Paul, as well as Greekbum's thoughts. Both of their comments appear spot on based on my experience. I watched sensui's video and the amount of time the dial glows is way tooooo long. In the past, I've owned a few vintage GMT gilts as well as a Submariner tulip 5512 and none of them mimicked what I saw in this video.

I no longer indulge in the vintage gilt watches - there are way too many being misrepresented with altered/colored dials, re-lacquered dials, touched-up dials and/or relumed dials and hands. It' is amazing how many of these watches are being advertised for sale which appear in near mint to never worn condition. Buyers should consider this when looking at vintage gilts in perfect condition. It's too bad and a shame.

I do agree with you, Springer. It is unfortunate and ruins the joy for these gilt models when there's so much deceit and mimicking with re-luming and or re-lacquering the dials...I am sure there are some people out there who can do an amazing job doing either one and I personally would be good with it depending on the condition on the dial while being transparent.

I do feel, based on my experience that the lume glowing (that bright) for minutes is too long. I have also seen where the Rolex service center has officially re-lumed a 6542 that I had in my possession with documentation...so that may be a possibility.

The watch does look amazing.

[1watch]

I’m always interested in learning and appreciate the knowledge shared in the community that’s added to my experience and enjoyment as a collector. I’m admittedly a newcomer to the gilt world as a collector and have appreciated those who have shared expertise, provided vetting and advice. In that spirit, here’s a video of my 1675 gilt.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lduxkiyll...EKUbBrRKa?dl=0


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[swish77]

Originally Posted by 1watch

In that spirit, here’s a video of my 1675 gilt.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lduxkiyll...EKUbBrRKa?dl=0

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, that video certainly looks more consistent with the other descriptions of a quick glow fade. I just wonder if there are variations of the lume from the early to mid-'60s that would cause longer glow time. Interesting stuff.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by swish77

Well, that video certainly looks more consistent with the other descriptions of a quick glow fade. I just wonder if there are variations of the lume from the early to mid-'60s that would cause longer glow time. Interesting stuff.

There are very different types. As mentioned earlier this is a typical type of lume often seen with certain dial types in 60-61 and matching the serial range as this GMT. For example the tulip 5512’s that have similar look of the lume color and application like this watch. Very pale and almost greenish looking. Doesn’t really develop much patina and glows strong and over a long time.



Tried to make a GIF to show how easy they light up. This is just a cool live photo taken while in a car moving through a forest with the sun passing through the trees.



Not sure it shows as GIF but here are two stills from that live photo next to eachother.




Point being.. Yes; certain dial versions from this era have crazy strong lume. I still think this one glows exceptionally long but it does look time correct and nice. Each to their own though.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Mine glows in the same way as the OP's... I know the full history of my watch (bought from the original owner) and the dial hasn't been touched.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

Mine glows in the same way as the OP's... I know the full history of my watch (bought from the original owner) and the dial hasn't been touched.

Can you post a UV video?

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Can you post a UV video?

Why?

Watch the OP's video - it's more or less the same as that.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

Why?

Watch the OP's video - it's more or less the same as that.

Because the majority of the people posting here has never seen 60 year old lume glow for this length of time. If yours is untouched and does the same, it basically settles any debate.