Buying from Europe. Is it worth it?

[Steve34]

Hi everyone. I’ve kind of touched on this already but not fully. If given the chance would you buy a watch from Europe and have it imported to the UK? Doesn’t sound like it’s possible to with the AD to reclaim the tax so when it arrives to the Uk I would have to pay VAT on the watch so a 7500 watch then becomes 9000 (which is still much less than grey market prices)

Just bugs me having to pay VAT on something that’s already had VAT charged on it but another option is to wait a couple years for another in the UK to become available with my AD...

I read that some people have bought a watch abroad and then worn it into the UK and not declared it but wouldn’t feel right doing that and also if I ever sold the watch I’m sure it would cause problems down the line.

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

[OrangeSport]

How would it cause problems if you sold it?

Do you think new watches are more easily available in Europe?

[Steve34]

Originally Posted by OrangeSport

How would it cause problems if you sold it?

Do you think new watches are more easily available in Europe?

Just over thinking it probably but if local vat wasn’t paid and then the watch was sold wouldn’t the tax guys know? I have no way of getting the watch and wearing it over anyway but I’ve heard if you travel between countries they can ask for paperwork to show the correct duties have been paid?

I think I could have a better chance through a friend in Europe who has a really good purchase history so could cut the time Im waiting down to a few months and not years. I want to start a collection and so far I have two Rolex watches in 2.5 years which is quite slow

[OrangeSport]

Unless you’re putting it through a business I can’t see how they would know.

[jaySL350]

Hi Steve,,,,
Just been finding out the exact thing your asking,,,
,,,,,we were looking at a vintage at £10 K ,,add 20% vat plus carrier / import charge of a £150-£200 +
so once duty and import charges apply then it’s a £12k + watch,,,,
Also told that insurance will not pay out on a “ smuggled” watch ,,
that I imagine would be if the underwriter did there due diligence,,,,,,

[Steve34]

Originally Posted by jaySL350

Hi Steve,,,,
Just been finding out the exact thing your asking,,,
,,,,,we were looking at a vintage at £10 K ,,add 20% vat plus carrier / import charge of a £150-£200 +
so once duty and import charges apply then it’s a £12k + watch,,,,
Also told that insurance will not pay out on a “ smuggled” watch ,,
that I imagine would be if the underwriter did there due diligence,,,,,,

Yeh bumps the price up quite a bit. Am I right in thinking there’s no import duty just vat and a courier handling fee?

I don’t have the option to get the watch and wear it through an airport but would be too worried about getting stopped anyway and just think it would be a problem somewhere down the line ie selling or like you said just insuring it.

[jaySL350]

Originally Posted by Steve34

Yeh bumps the price up quite a bit. Am I right in thinking there’s no import duty just vat and a courier handling fee?

I don’t have the option to get the watch and wear it through an airport but would be too worried about getting stopped anyway and just think it would be a problem somewhere down the line ie selling or like you said just insuring it.

I believe so but even that handling fees seems to change from country to country but the handling fees aren’t too awful,,,
I spent a fair time to ascertain full charges but was unable to find anyone who had purchased a piece from Chrono24 ,etc,and paid VAT and Handling fees in the U.K. ,,
Quite a few who had jumped on a plane or train ,
bought the piece had it fitted and wore it home and the box and papers followed in the post a few days later but as you know that’s not Kosher,,,

[r32nissan]

I'm actually tempted to use some frequent flyer miles and fly to Europe and come back to the US. Has anyone done this recently?

[Tensai]

I don't think many people will admit or detail how they avoid duties between countries.

If you are looking to buy in one part of the world (Europe, Asia, etc.) and flip in another and avoid duties, it is already being done very well by the pros (meaning the people who do this as a business).

Good luck!

[Steve34]

Originally Posted by Tensai

I don't think many people will admit or detail how they avoid duties between countries.

If you are looking to buy in one part of the world (Europe, Asia, etc.) and flip in another and avoid duties, it is already being done very well by the pros (meaning the people who do this as a business).

Good luck!

No not looking to flip it at all. Just really don’t want to have to pay VAT on the full price of the watch which already includes VAT. I think even paying the VAT twice still makes the purchase worth while but just doesn’t seem right to have to do this

[r32nissan]

Originally Posted by Tensai

I don't think many people will admit or detail how they avoid duties between countries.

If you are looking to buy in one part of the world (Europe, Asia, etc.) and flip in another and avoid duties, it is already being done very well by the pros (meaning the people who do this as a business).

Good luck!

Not looking to flip. Just looking to actually get the watch for retail. I’m looking for a day date which it sounds are much more readily available than stateside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[drrd]

Originally Posted by Steve34

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

What watch?

[Steve34]

Originally Posted by drrd

What watch?

GMT Pepsi so even paying the VAT again would take the total to around 9000 uk which is obviously a lot less than the watch is worth

[drrd]

Originally Posted by Steve34

GMT Pepsi so even paying the VAT again would take the total to around 9000 uk which is obviously a lot less than the watch is worth

I don't think you'll persuade the AD not to charge you VAT so you will have to pay twice. That seems to be the new rule. Unless your friend buys it and comes to visit and forgets to take it home.

I hear a £1500 cash token of appreciation would be considered cheap to get that watch from an AD.

[dannyp]

If I understand correctly, the issue is:

-The best place to get the watch is in EU
-Going to pick it up is not an option
-Best option is having a friend buy and bring
-Buying in own country = no VAT refund for friend
-Import to UK incurs some other form of tax
-The goal here is not tax avoidance, it's double tax avoidance
-No aversion to paying the same taxes that would be owed if OP went to EU and picked it up himself

Would having a friend from the UK go to retrieve it solve the problem (since they would be able to claim back VAT in purchasing country, then pay taxes upon arrival in UK)?

[drrd]

Originally Posted by dannyp

-The goal here is not tax avoidance, it's double tax avoidance

I haven't tried importing anything since we left the EU but I think the problem is that the only way to (legally) avoid double VAT is for the seller to not charge it.

Many sellers decide they don't need the hassle and I imagine that a Rolex AD would be top of the list of sellers who could not be @rsed.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by drrd

I haven't tried importing anything since we left the EU but I think the problem is that the only way to (legally) avoid double VAT is for the seller to not charge it.

Many sellers decide they don't need the hassle and I imagine that a Rolex AD would be top of the list of sellers who could not be @rsed.

It's been quite some time since I visited the EU, but what happened to the VAT refund forms that one would fill out and either mail in or present at the airport for VAT refund?

[Steve34]

Originally Posted by dannyp

If I understand correctly, the issue is:

-The best place to get the watch is in EU
-Going to pick it up is not an option
-Best option is having a friend buy and bring
-Buying in own country = no VAT refund for friend
-Import to UK incurs some other form of tax
-The goal here is not tax avoidance, it's double tax avoidance
-No aversion to paying the same taxes that would be owed if OP went to EU and picked it up himself

Would having a friend from the UK go to retrieve it solve the problem (since they would be able to claim back VAT in purchasing country, then pay taxes upon arrival in UK)?

Yes spot on.

Don’t want to have to pay VAT in the UK as the watch would be bought at rrp which includes the VAT (but in a different country) they can’t offer a tax refund so I’ve been told. Maybe by doing this it shows that the watch hasn’t stayed in it’s local area which is maybe what Rolex want?

[Exiztence]

Do people think they will walk into random EU AD and they will just roll out Pepsi or some other hot model?

[drrd]

Originally Posted by Exiztence

Do people think they will walk into random EU AD and they will just roll out Pepsi or some other hot model?

That wouldn't happen of course. OP says he has a friend with a substantial spend history at the AD.

[Steve34]

Originally Posted by drrd

That wouldn't happen of course. OP says he has a friend with a substantial spend history at the AD.

Yes and sounds confident he can make it happen for me but need to weigh it all up

[drrd]

Originally Posted by Steve34

Yes and sounds confident he can make it happen for me but need to weigh it all up

Chrono24 prices suggest that £9K is a bargain.

I'd be surprised if you got one retail in the UK with your purchase history.

[TimepieceRPP]

Originally Posted by drrd

Chrono24 prices suggest that £9K is a bargain.

I'd be surprised if you got one retail in the UK with your purchase history.

+1
I don't mind to take it. Haha

[Steve34]

Originally Posted by drrd

Chrono24 prices suggest that £9K is a bargain.

I'd be surprised if you got one retail in the UK with your purchase history.

Yes think you could be right. Just frustrating knowing I’ll be paying the extra 1500 quid but even if I could get there and wear it back I just wouldn’t feel comfortable doing it. Would be the guy stood in the airport sweating and looking guilty as you like haha

I’m amazed grey market dealers can get away with it.

[inadeje]

Originally Posted by Steve34

Hi everyone. I’ve kind of touched on this already but not fully. If given the chance would you buy a watch from Europe and have it imported to the UK? Doesn’t sound like it’s possible to with the AD to reclaim the tax so when it arrives to the Uk I would have to pay VAT on the watch so a 7500 watch then becomes 9000 (which is still much less than grey market prices)

Just bugs me having to pay VAT on something that’s already had VAT charged on it but another option is to wait a couple years for another in the UK to become available with my AD...

I read that some people have bought a watch abroad and then worn it into the UK and not declared it but wouldn’t feel right doing that and also if I ever sold the watch I’m sure it would cause problems down the line.

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

My thoughts are that I don’t get it, unless you’re trying to avoid EU taxes. The amounts are about the same. Europe is super close from the UK. You head over, wear the watch while traveling back and send the box via DHL or similar. Please clarify why this is proving a dilemma for you.

[drrd]

Originally Posted by inadeje

My thoughts are that I don’t get it, unless you’re trying to avoid EU taxes. The amounts are about the same. Europe is super close from the UK. You head over, wear the watch while traveling back and send the box via DHL or similar. Please clarify why this is proving a dilemma for you.

But you missed out the bit about paying taxes on entering the UK. That would be illegal.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by inadeje

My thoughts are that I don’t get it, unless you’re trying to avoid EU taxes. The amounts are about the same. Europe is super close from the UK. You head over, wear the watch while traveling back and send the box via DHL or similar. Please clarify why this is proving a dilemma for you.

Originally Posted by drrd

But you missed out the bit about paying taxes on entering the UK. That would be illegal.

Again, I think what the OP is trying to avoid is paying EU taxes, which, in theory, he should be entitled to do since he is a UK citizen coming to buy a watch that he's taking directly back to the UK. He would then pay the appropriate taxes upon reentry.

The issue seems to be that there isn't actually a mechanism to avoid/get back the taxes he shouldn't have to pay, and the only ones he could theoretically avoid (by cheating) are those he should have to pay.

[drrd]

There is no entitled to anything with Rolex :)

If you purchase online from outside the UK then it's clearly exported and you should be able to avoid source taxes if the seller is prepared to do the paperwork - they may not be so I hear.

I don't know but if you buy in person (as with Rolex) I think the seller may be entitled to charge inclusive of local taxes. At least they may again chose not to sell to avoid the uncertainty and hassle.

It's not much of a poker game when the AD is holding a Pepsi.

It seems HMRC are now clear they want their VAT on imports and the give has to come from the seller.

[Steve34]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Again, I think what the OP is trying to avoid is paying EU taxes, which, in theory, he should be entitled to do since he is a UK citizen coming to buy a watch that he's taking directly back to the UK. He would then pay the appropriate taxes upon reentry.

The issue seems to be that there isn't actually a mechanism to avoid/get back the taxes he shouldn't have to pay, and the only ones he could theoretically avoid (by cheating) are those he should have to pay.

Yes it doesn’t seem like the AD in Europe will do the paperwork meaning if I want it I have to pay them the full price. Before Brexit it was easy as I would pay the full price in Europe then just get it sent to the UK and would be no issues. Now I’ll have to pay another 20% on top by the look of it

[grimps]

Originally Posted by Steve34

Hi everyone. I’ve kind of touched on this already but not fully. If given the chance would you buy a watch from Europe and have it imported to the UK? Doesn’t sound like it’s possible to with the AD to reclaim the tax so when it arrives to the Uk I would have to pay VAT on the watch so a 7500 watch then becomes 9000 (which is still much less than grey market prices)

Just bugs me having to pay VAT on something that’s already had VAT charged on it but another option is to wait a couple years for another in the UK to become available with my AD...

I read that some people have bought a watch abroad and then worn it into the UK and not declared it but wouldn’t feel right doing that and also if I ever sold the watch I’m sure it would cause problems down the line.

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?

I picked a Bluesy up while on holiday in Spain in the summer , I got around 15-16% tax back.

I asked customs on my return if they'd like to see the purchase and if I owed anything and they just waved me through and said they was too busy