Rolex Claims Copied Serial Number - Advice?

[Joseph1260]

I purchased a Submariner Date (16610) in 1991. Came with box, tags, etc.
Has been on my wrist every day for the last 30 years, including dozens of dive trips all over world. Serviced once in 1998 by an independent watchmaker. Has worked flawlessly. Started to run slightly slower over the last 3 months.

Took it to Rolex Service Center this week - stunned when they told me, according to their records, the serial number on my watch had been "copied" and did not match the model of watch that I had. They refused to service it. Would not come out and say it but the inference is it was a counterfeit watch.

I then took it to an independent Rolex-trained watchmaker (40 years experience). He inspected the engraving on the serial number, the watch, and opened the case to look at the movement. Watchmaker says it's absolutely genuine Rolex watch.

I've asked Rolex to double check the serial number and provide any details they can. Rolex replied that I had purchased the watch (30 years ago) from a non-authorized jeweler (who is no longer in business) and basically there was nothing more that "they were at liberty" to tell me.

I agree w/ the independent watchmaker who said there is no way this watch would have performed for the last 30 years if it was a counterfeit. I don't want to sell the watch, only to resolve this serial number issue one way or the other. The serial number on the watch matches the serial number on the tag and paperwork I was given when I bought the watch.

Has anyone ever heard of a situation like this? Is there a possibility of a recording/clerical error by Rolex in their records? Watch was purchased for a very special personal occasion and has a great deal of sentimental value.

Any insight appreciated, thank you!

[MRBolton]

Are the paperwork and tag you’re referring to from Rolex— as in the official documentation, or is this just stuff from the dealer? If the former, did you share that with Rolex, and what did they say?
Would they specify what model the serial number corresponded to instead?
Have you checked everything with the watch yourself that’s readily verifiable? For example, I think the bracelet has a certain code that would correspond with the year.

[2loaded]

Originally Posted by Joseph1260

I've asked Rolex to double check the serial number and provide any details they can. Rolex replied that I had purchased the watch (30 years ago) from a non-authorized jeweler (who is no longer in business) and basically there was nothing more that "they were at liberty" to tell me.

Did they know this from their records or information you provided to the RSC?

[TimepieceRPP]

Did u have the paper/warranty card?

[TheVTCGuy]

Unfortunately, I heard of a case like this many years ago. Let me state right off the bat that I have no first-hand knowledge of any of this, but, what I heard is:

The story was very similar to yours. Purchased at a jeweler (non-AD) with box and papers. Years later the watch was taken to an RSC for service, Rolex said it did not match. What was discovered was the non-AD had taken a Rolex movement from a case-destroyed watch (or something or other) and put it in a different model Rolex (that used the same movement). It was a bad issue all the way around.

I hope this is not the same case as your situation, but it sure sounds similar. I wish you the best of luck in solving this problem

[TimepieceRPP]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Unfortunately, I heard of a case like this many years ago. Let me state right off the bat that I have no first-hand knowledge of any of this, but, what I heard is:

The story was very similar to yours. Purchased at a jeweler (non-AD) with box and papers. Years later the watch was taken to an RSC for service, Rolex said it did not match. What was discovered was the non-AD had taken a Rolex movement from a case-destroyed watch (or something or other) and put it in a different model Rolex (that used the same movement). It was a bad issue all the way around.

I hope this is not the same case as your situation, but it sure sounds similar. I wish you the best of luck in solving this problem

Sigh... how can it be avoided if go grey? Very frustrating as if I dont want to take the newly bought rolex from grey to service? OPs keep saying buy it from trusted dealers etc then how? Of course I know can see from reviews etc.

As it is so difficult to get from ADs and so risky to go grey, don't mention then frustration to pay premium/MSRP.. so what can I do? Leave the market? Be patience? Go for another brands etc... sick of hearing this kind of advice.

[drrd]

Originally Posted by TimepieceRPP

Sigh... how can it be avoided if go grey?

Good question and one that gets mostly buried under the barrage of forum and social media posts promoting the grey market.

If you want a watch that you can be certain is 100% genuine and that Rolex themselves will stand behind long after the dealer has potentially gone then you have to buy from an AD. End of story.

It used to be go grey to save money. Now it's go grey just to get a hot watch.

Well money will get you a watch but there's a small chance it may not be the watch.

[TswaneNguni]

White gloves or not ,the best place to buy Rolex is from an AD .
Really,the best trusted transaction .

If RSC refuses,the watch as is ,its not on their record .
Something was changed .Unauthorized dealer or previous owner.
Does not sound like a counterfeit .

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Unfortunately, I heard of a case like this many years ago. Let me state right off the bat that I have no first-hand knowledge of any of this, but, what I heard is:

The story was very similar to yours. Purchased at a jeweler (non-AD) with box and papers. Years later the watch was taken to an RSC for service, Rolex said it did not match. What was discovered was the non-AD had taken a Rolex movement from a case-destroyed watch (or something or other) and put it in a different model Rolex (that used the same movement). It was a bad issue all the way around.

I hope this is not the same case as your situation, but it sure sounds similar. I wish you the best of luck in solving this problem

Could be. And, TBH, back in 1991, perhaps this wasn't considered such a big deal - Rolex case + Rolex movement + Rolex bracelet = Rolex watch. These things weren't collectors' items yet, and going secondary market/pre-owned always saved some money (sometimes a lot of it).

Originally Posted by drrd

Good question and one that gets mostly buried under the barrage of forum and social media posts promoting the grey market.

If you want a watch that you can be certain is 100% genuine and that Rolex themselves will stand behind long after the dealer has potentially gone then you have to buy from an AD. End of story.

It used to be go grey to save money. Now it's go grey just to get a hot watch.

Well money will get you a watch but there's a small chance it may not be the watch.

Again, we must keep in perspective the role played by secondary market/used dealers 30 years ago. There was no hype. There was no social media. The watches were bought for function and/or "real life" status - the box/papers were actually to ensure a genuine watch, not value-increasing accessories.

Most of the "AD vs. secondary" comments are far more applicable today than when this watch was purchased.

[AdamW]

Originally Posted by drrd

Good question and one that gets mostly buried under the barrage of forum and social media posts promoting the grey market.

If you want a watch that you can be certain is 100% genuine and that Rolex themselves will stand behind long after the dealer has potentially gone then you have to buy from an AD. End of story.

It used to be go grey to save money. Now it's go grey just to get a hot watch.

Well money will get you a watch but there's a small chance it may not be the watch.

THIS

If people would stop buying from grays, the price of watches would come down and the rise of counterfeits making their way into the public would be reduced.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by drrd

If you want a watch that you can be certain is 100% genuine and that Rolex themselves will stand behind long after the dealer has potentially gone then you have to buy from an AD. End of story.

This is not always the case. How about a new Rolex purchased on the secondary market? There are plenty Rolexes available that are new/unworn and some even still with stickers, although rarer nowadays.

If you buy from a trusted seller who has a spotless record, the risk is minimal.

[JodyHighroller]

Originally Posted by swish77

This is not always the case. How about a new Rolex purchased on the secondary market? There are plenty Rolexes available that are new/unworn and some even still with stickers, although rarer nowadays.

If you buy from a trusted seller who has a spotless record, the risk is minimal.

I think the issue is the amount of hands it passes through before it reaches a “trusted secondary dealer”. It naturally increases the risk.

[joli160]

Nothing risky buying from a real trusted seller.
There are many on TRF. Plenty in the UK as well and I did business with some Dutch and German trusted sellers as well.
Without exception all flawless.
Don’t be too scared. These people run a legit business and providing excellent service is key for their operation.

You have to do your homework. Not every grey seller is legit and earns the title trusted seller. Very misleading is a platform where everybody is a trusted seller and where you can see many wrong watches the likes of C24.

Best place to check is on various watch forums like TRF.

[drrd]

Originally Posted by joli160

Nothing risky buying from a real trusted seller.

'Nothing' as in not a single thing? 0%?

Trust is good up until it's lost. Rolex don't trust them already.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by drrd

'Nothing' as in not a single thing? 0%?

Trust is good up until it's lost. Rolex don't trust them already.

Locally, a very trusted seller sold a Rolex complete box,papers etc to a client .
Client had it serviced .RSC told him ,stolen .

Seems the original owner ,claimed insurance money AND sold the watch to trusted seller(Complete with box and papers) ..

Weird world hey ??

[BLNR Nairobi]

Originally Posted by drrd

'Nothing' as in not a single thing? 0%?

Trust is good up until it's lost. Rolex don't trust them already.

Exactly. I find the whole ‘trusted seller’ moniker a bit silly.

Now, there are several I would buy a timepiece from as I believe they would 1) not risk their business selling an inauthentic product and 2) if something did go wrong, they would fix it.

However, there is no such thing as zero risk if someone is buying from the grey market - ‘trusted seller’ or not.

For example, while the good ones may filter out inauthentic watches, they are unable to filter out stolen watches. And the buyer will only know it’s stolen many years later when they take it for a service.

And it sure is interesting how many ‘no box, no papers’ watches are floating around.

[johnwigan]

Originally Posted by joli160

Nothing risky buying from a real trusted seller.
There are many on TRF. Plenty in the UK as well and I did business with some Dutch and German trusted sellers as well.
Without exception all flawless.
Don’t be too scared. These people run a legit business and providing excellent service is key for their operation.

You have to do your homework. Not every grey seller is legit and earns the title trusted seller. Very misleading is a platform where everybody is a trusted seller and where you can see many wrong watches the likes of C24.

Best place to check is on various watch forums like TRF.

If you are buying a second hand watch there are always risks associated with that. For example, it could be stolen or messed with in some way like this watch. The risk may be ok when you were getting a discount from a dealer who was getting stock direct from an AD. But in this crazy inflated market people are paying over RRP for second hand watches. And the crazy inflated prices makes me think the risks of being ripped off go up, not down. Stick with an AD, be patient, wait for post COVID normality to return, and get your own purchase history so you can get the watches you want.

This gentleman should get his watch serviced elsewhere. Not really lost that much if you have had 30 years use from it. But I'm sure if he could wind the clock back he would have purchased a genuine watch from an AD. If you are planning on keeping a watch long term it makes sense. It would niggle me that I have a watch that is dodgy and not as it should be. And it can get a lot worse than this. A second hand watch may be claimed as stolen at some point. Always a risk, whatever flippers and grey dealers may say.

[jimcameron]

Originally Posted by TimepieceRPP

Sigh... how can it be avoided if go grey?

It can't. It is a risk one takes when buying grey. Well intentioned and honest "trusted seller" may be gone tomorrow with no recourse for the buyer. If you want 100% security, you must buy new from a AD.

[dnuggett]

Originally Posted by TimepieceRPP

Sigh... how can it be avoided if go grey? Very frustrating as if I dont want to take the newly bought rolex from grey to service? OPs keep saying buy it from trusted dealers etc then how? Of course I know can see from reviews etc.

As it is so difficult to get from ADs and so risky to go grey, don't mention then frustration to pay premium/MSRP.. so what can I do? Leave the market? Be patience? Go for another brands etc... sick of hearing this kind of advice.

Simple, Don’t buy grey if you can’t stomach the risk.

[Rori]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Unfortunately, I heard of a case like this many years ago. Let me state right off the bat that I have no first-hand knowledge of any of this, but, what I heard is:

The story was very similar to yours. Purchased at a jeweler (non-AD) with box and papers. Years later the watch was taken to an RSC for service, Rolex said it did not match. What was discovered was the non-AD had taken a Rolex movement from a case-destroyed watch (or something or other) and put it in a different model Rolex (that used the same movement). It was a bad issue all the way around.

I hope this is not the same case as your situation, but it sure sounds similar. I wish you the best of luck in solving this problem

Collection-level Rolex boutique in Paris “Olivine Prestige” stated in one of his YouTube vids that he has discovered during his authentication services he offers that some counterfeit pieces are fitted with original movement!


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[RolexSimon]

Hope it can be resolved - sounds like something bad has happened in the past and you may need to get it serviced by a non-Rolex service person.

[rootbeer7]

Have you tried ‘googling’ the model and serial number? One in a million, but perhaps the watch with the ‘original’ serial number might be floating around. If the movement number is correct, would rsc replace the case? The suggestion is not a stolen watch is it?

[Harry-57]

You can do due diligence when buying grey. If not 100% convinced, don't buy. Potential problems arise when the seller does all the convincing and the buyer doesn't challenge it.

It's the watch that must convince the buyer, not the narrative of the seller. We say "buy the seller" but that doesn't mean automatically buying the watch as well. Good sellers make mistakes. Good sellers rectify them. This is why it's worth going to all reasonable lengths to authenticate the watch if you have bought the seller. If someone has has managed to get a wrong un past the seller, they will eat the loss, not the buyer.

The watch in question has failed to convince the RSC. If it can't be progressed and resolved in the OP's favour, Rolex will not touch it, and shouldn't. It can be serviced and repaired easily enough elsewhere.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Joseph1260

...Rolex replied that I had purchased the watch (30 years ago) from a non-authorized jeweler (who is no longer in business) and basically there was nothing more that "they were at liberty" to tell me.

It's a pity that Rolex always feels the need to so secretive about these things, like they were a government agency or something.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

It's a pity that Rolex always feels the need to so secretive about these things, like they were a government agency or something.

True!


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[drrd]

Originally Posted by fskywalker

True!


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But tbf Rolex are very transparent on their policy:

"Only official Rolex retailers are allowed to sell and maintain a Rolex watch.

With the necessary skills, technical know-how and special equipment, they guarantee the authenticity of each and every part of your Rolex and help you make the choice that will last a lifetime."

All you have to do is only buy from an AD and service through an AD/RSC :)

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by drrd

All you have to do is only buy from an AD and service through an AD/RSC :)

Or buy from trusted sellers who buy from ADs

[johnwigan]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

Or buy from trusted sellers who buy from ADs

Don't think you quite get it. The trusted sellers are ADs. And only ADs. Buying anywhere else involves risks.

[rambo99]

Originally Posted by drrd

But tbf Rolex are very transparent on their policy:

"Only official Rolex retailers are allowed to sell and maintain a Rolex watch.

With the necessary skills, technical know-how and special equipment, they guarantee the authenticity of each and every part of your Rolex and help you make the choice that will last a lifetime."

All you have to do is only buy from an AD and service through an AD/RSC :)

surely AD is the way to go!

[eltonbalch]

Originally Posted by drrd

But tbf Rolex are very transparent on their policy:

"Only official Rolex retailers are allowed to sell and maintain a Rolex watch.

With the necessary skills, technical know-how and special equipment, they guarantee the authenticity of each and every part of your Rolex and help you make the choice that will last a lifetime."

All you have to do is only buy from an AD and service through an AD/RSC :)

Well, THAT should have all the grey dealers shaking in their boots! Rolex knows who all the major grey dealers are, but basically does nothing. Some poor customer from many years ago wants to get his watch serviced and Rolex hardballs him. Way to go Rolex!