Help with 16570 please

[shammad10]

Hi, I’m not sure if this counts as vintage. But I’ve been looking at this and done a fair bit of reading around it. It is a 2004 F serial, with what looks like the correct dial.
I’m struggling with the bracelet/clasp and end links if you guys had any suggestions, and what you think of the watch in general- has obviously been polished.
Thanks! Appreciate your expertise.












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[rmagoo57]

Looks like a new bezel on an old, worn/polished out case. Crown guards look bad, pass for me. Plenty of nicer ones on the market.

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by rmagoo57

Looks like a new bezel on an old, worn/polished out case. Crown guards look bad, pass for me. Plenty of nicer ones on the market.

Thanks so much, appreciate your reply. Do you think it is worth the extra for the 3186 movement?

[SeeDweller]

Originally Posted by shammad10

Thanks so much, appreciate your reply. Do you think it is worth the extra for the 3186 movement?

I’m pretty sure that the 3186 movement was not used in 2004, on any of the F serial watches…. at all.
Is the seller informing you that it has the newer movement?? If so, then you’ve got a bad seller here, and that’s enough to nix the deal. And really, we’d all like to know who it is, if it’s a dealer.
(Someone, please call me out on this if I’m wrong!)

Here’s a great article about this:

http://luxurytyme.com/en/rolex-relat...-rolex-models/

The Earliest “M” were in 2007.

Enjoy!


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[shammad10]

Originally Posted by SeeDweller

I’m pretty sure that the 3186 movement was not used in 2004, on any of the F serial watches…. at all.
Is the seller informing you that it has the newer movement?? If so, then you’ve got a bad seller here, and that’s enough to nix the deal. And really, we’d all like to know who it is, if it’s a dealer.
(Someone, please call me out on this if I’m wrong!)

Here’s a great article about this:

http://luxurytyme.com/en/rolex-relat...-rolex-models/

The Earliest “M” were in 2007.

Enjoy!

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Oh sorry no the movement is a 3185- I was just asking in general. Probably wasn’t clear in my question!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by shammad10

Thanks so much, appreciate your reply. Do you think it is worth the extra for the 3186 movement?

Short answer no.

[TopDog2315]

Originally Posted by padi56

Short answer no.

+ 1


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[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by rmagoo57

Looks like a new bezel on an old, worn/polished out case. Crown guards look bad, pass for me. Plenty of nicer ones on the market.

Spot on. Bezel is a "cheap" $275 from Rolex SC...can't buy lugs!

The only good thing is I "THINK" you might be able to use those lugs as a on the fly toothpick?

[1665fan]

Typical over polished…..pass on this one…

[GGGMT]

Concur pass. Common watch many out there. 78790 bracelet which is my favorite bracelet. Great clasp. Came in watch.

You’ll love the 16570. Also one of my tops.




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[G3Z]

That is over polished and even the Polish finish is wrong - doesn’t seem there’s any brushed finish on the watch. The crown guard is soft and rounded. There isn’t a sharp edge left on that watch.

No the 3186 isn’t worth the premium.

[karleone]

Watch is over polished. Brushing on lugs don’t look at all like factory Rolex finish plus chamfers / bevels are gone. Hard pass. You can find much better examples.

[shammad10]

Cheers all

[shammad10]

Found another one I liked the look of- but I don’t think this dial is correct for the watch.
The seller is a very reputable vintage watch dealer in the south of England and says that it is the original dial…. But from my understanding the ‘Swiss - T< 25’ only came on the pre 1997 16570’s with tritium lume…. Any opinions on that?!



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[karleone]

Originally Posted by shammad10

Found another one I liked the look of- but I don’t think this dial is correct for the watch.
The seller is a very reputable vintage watch dealer in the south of England and says that it is the original dial…. But from my understanding the ‘Swiss - T< 25’ only came on the pre 1997 16570’s with tritium lume…. Any opinions on that?!



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This one is over polished as well. The chamfers / bevels are gone!
Plus tritium dial and solid end links bracelet can’t be together. One of them is a service part. Hard pass.

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by karleone

This one is over polished as well. The chamfers / bevels are gone!
Plus tritium dial and solid end links bracelet can’t be together. One of them is a service part. Hard pass.

Yeah that’s what I thought- just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something as the dealer was adamant!

[G3Z]

What year is that listed as?

T<25 was used until 1999. There was a short run of ‘Swiss’ only 1999/2000

Then ‘Swiss made’ 2000 onwards.

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by G3Z

What year is that listed as?

T<25 was used until 1999. There was a short run of ‘Swiss’ only 1999/2000

Then ‘Swiss made’ 2000 onwards.

He’s listed it as a 2004!!

I thought it must be a service dial- and was a bit annoyed that he denied it!

[Manu77]

Pass. You can find much better examples.

[G3Z]

It looks as though you are rushing a purchase.

You definitely need to know more about these watches. Enjoy some research for a little while and then go on the hunt.

[karleone]

Originally Posted by g3z

it looks as though you are rushing a purchase.

You definitely need to know more about these watches. Enjoy some research for a little while and then go on the hunt.

+1

[teager]

+2

Originally Posted by karleone

+1

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by G3Z

It looks as though you are rushing a purchase.

You definitely need to know more about these watches. Enjoy some research for a little while and then go on the hunt.

Reading, posting online and asking for help from more experienced collectors is research.
I’ve been reading into this for a fair few months and I’m quite well versed on the different dial variations with end links etc, but obviously will not have the know how of someone who’s been reading about for years!
Where I really struggle is the polishing etc- which I guess comes with time and handling these watches.

[sub2011]

Originally Posted by shammad10

Reading, posting online and asking for help from more experienced collectors is research.
I’ve been reading into this for a fair few months and I’m quite well versed on the different dial variations with end links etc, but obviously will not have the know how of someone who’s been reading about for years!
Where I really struggle is the polishing etc- which I guess comes with time and handling these watches.

Please thicken your skin. You can not feel offended if another forumer, who is trying to help you, says that you need to learn more. Actually you need to. Perhaps your focus is wrong. A dial in a modern Rolex very rarely needs to be changed. First you need to check the case and bracelet. That will show you how the Rolex 's life was. There you can see if it was well cared or not, well polished or not. For that you'll need to read lots of threads, and see lots of pictures, in order to learn. If the watch surpases this exam, then you can check dial, hands, services, correlation between lume and series, etc. Good luck.

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by sub2011

Please thicken your skin. You can not feel offended if another forumer, who is trying to help you, says that you need to learn more. Actually you need to. Perhaps your focus is wrong. A dial in a modern Rolex very rarely needs to be changed. First you need to check the case and bracelet. That will show you how the Rolex 's life was. There you can see if it was well cared or not, well polished or not. For that you'll need to read lots of threads, and see lots of pictures, in order to learn. If the watch surpases this exam, then you can check dial, hands, services, correlation between lume and series, etc. Good luck.

I’m not offended- like I said, just trying to do some research!!

I’m grateful for all your opinions and expertise- I’m relatively new to the world of pre-2010 Rolex, so I’m just trying to absorb the information.
And thanks for your method of checking, that is very useful!!

[Tools]

Take many of the comments for what they are... self proclaimed "experts".

You are looking at 20+ year old watches where bracelets get replaced and cases get refinished during service. You are very unlikely to find a mint, never cleaned up, example.

Refinished does not mean "over polished" and rounded edges are frequently more preferred than hard-cut new edges where a lot of material was taken off simply for aesthetics to sell.

Some things you shouldn't find, such as tritium dials on post 2000 watches. It really isn't a problem, unless somebody is a "period correct" fanatic, however, it does say that it was changed for some reason.

Here is one of mine, older than you are looking at, that has had the edges (chamfers) just slightly re-pointed. Easy to do when the buffer has softened them.

[karleone]

If the watch is 2004 it should have a super luminova dial. Here it has a tritirum dial so it's even not a service dial but an older dial that was installed on the watch. If the dealer told you this was the original dial he obviously does not know anything about vintage or a liar... You should stay far away from him!

[G3Z]

There are a lot of transitions and variations through the 30 or so years of a 16570. It’s good to know your reference well before purchase, or you’ll just have regret in your purchase.

The hunt is better than the purchase, so just enjoy it.

[G3Z]

My post wasn’t meant as a negative comment, I’m sorry if it came across that way. It’s just that you mentioned a t<25 being a service dial etc.

I meant it just as advice, to do more research and know the reference inside out. You need to know which bracelet codes match which years etc.

I will try and find the transition graph to give you an idea how many changes there are.

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by G3Z

My post wasn’t meant as a negative comment, I’m sorry if it came across that way. It’s just that you mentioned a t<25 being a service dial etc.

I meant it just as advice, to do more research and know the reference inside out. You need to know which bracelet codes match which years etc.

I will try and find the transition graph to give you an idea how many changes there are.

No of course, wasn’t taken that way. I guess I should’ve used the term Non original dial!
Yes please if you could find that graph that would be great!
I last a decent article on ‘beyond the dial’ about the different variations too.