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Anthony Fierro · 16 June 2009, 06:03 AM

I have a good friend who has fallen on hard times and has offered to sell his sea dweller 4000ft with gas escape valve and non cyclops date. He has had it for the 7 years that I have known him and wore it often until about the last 3 years. I am 100% confident in it's authenticity and it's in perfect condition. Only problem is he has the box but no papers. I'ts not a watch I would buy if I were headed out to buy one and had a full selection to choose from, not really my style, but I want to help my friend out. Do you all have any opinions on how I should handle this? Can I get new papers for when I want to sell it? Just because I know and trust this guy doesn't mean anybody will know and trust me. Or if I buy the watch, it is a good price, am I stuck with it for life?

I appriciate all of your feedback, Thanks

scottschoe · 16 June 2009, 06:07 AM

No you can't get new papers, but you can have it serviced and those papers are worth more IMO. A lack of papers isn't a dealbreaker for me on most watches.

Troy · 16 June 2009, 06:09 AM

When you send it in for service you will get papers for it.Has it been serviced if not factor in about $500.00 for that, you will have a new looking watch plus papers

Scott beat me to it

Gold Crown · 16 June 2009, 06:43 AM

Look at prices on e bay, not asking prices but the price it actually sold for. Ebay is a good place to sell also.

Chris B · 16 June 2009, 06:43 AM

If he's a good friend (& they really are priceless) let him keep his watch & loan him the money until his circumstances improve.

We shouldn't seek any advantage of our friends should we???

jlovda · 16 June 2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris B

If he's a good friend (& they really are priceless) let him keep his watch & loan him the money until his circumstances improve.

We shouldn't seek any advantage of our friends should we???

If this is truly a favor because he needs the money, buy the watch and put it in a drawer until your friend can buy it back. Assuming he really liked/likes the watch, he will pay you back promptly. Otherwise, there is a chance you will be in the unpleasant position of bugging him for your money back.

Has anyone seen the Progressive Insurance commercial in the "insurance grocery store" where a fellow sells his watch to a friend? "That's Cruel!"

jlovda · 16 June 2009, 07:10 AM

What is so magical about papers? Maybe we should petition the Secr. of State in each state to issue titles for these watches. But then we would have to buy a sticker each year to put on the back. What papers are important? What if you have an invoice from the dealer with SN but no fancy Rolex diploma-like warranty sheet?

Asad · 16 June 2009, 07:41 AM

Papers carry very little value, as long as the watch is authentic....

onkyo · 16 June 2009, 08:16 AM

Original papers are important to collectors (and boxes too). Having a complete set can add significant value to a vintage watch.

For non-collectors, they are worthless.

allanofcalifornia · 16 June 2009, 08:23 AM

I believe most people, including myself, prefer to have all the accessories for a Rolex when they buy it. The papers are special since they can never be replaced and therefore increases the value of the watch.

Allan

MikeJaye · 16 June 2009, 02:56 PM

For me if someone can't look after a piece of paper and a box it is an indication of how they might have looked after their watch. I know there must be exceptional cases but it's not exactly difficult to keep the box and papers is it.

onkyo · 17 June 2009, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeJaye

For me if someone can't look after a piece of paper and a box it is an indication of how they might have looked after their watch. I know there must be exceptional cases but it's not exactly difficult to keep the box and papers is it.

Some do not pass on papers because of privacy issues.... they do not want their name and address following a watch they no longer own.

Mwing · 16 June 2009, 04:42 PM

hm... papers... i have a good friend of mine selling a ss daytona z-series white dial brand new with stickers on no box no papers for 8.5k CDN, im still thinking about it too, he bought a white gold mop dial daytona and a tt gmt2c and a something like ap, and forgot about the ss daytona until recently he moved to a new place and found that out.

Singslinger · 16 June 2009, 05:10 PM

Since it's not a watch you hankered after, the best thing to do IMO is tell him the truth and advise him to sell it either on Ebay or to a secondhand dealer. While I admire your desire to help a friend out, I don't see the point in buying something you didn't really want in the first place. As someone before me said, maybe just loan him the money instead of buying the watch.

Colnago · 16 June 2009, 05:26 PM

Loan him a %age of the money he wants now, you could easily loan him a further %age later, in a way it minimises the chance of him "blowing the lot" (plus you are not so heavily out of pocket)

Then tell him you are taking the watch purely as security and he is welcome to consider it that "you are just looking after it for him" until such a time arrises when either he tells you that you may sell it to settle the debt or that he can afford to buy it back.

It's effectively a good deal for you because in all liklihood you could sell it for more than the full current asking price....split the profit and everyone is happy....or make your friend very happy when he "buys it back" because you have looked after his watch so well.......

You are in a win win situation as long as the value of the watch doesn't plummet (that surely has to be unlikely)....and if you stick to only lending him 50 to 75% but explain that if the watch has to be sold in the end, then you get your initial "investment" back and he gets the remainder.....you haven't made a profit but neither are you out of pocket and you have done your best for him....

Tools · 17 June 2009, 12:45 AM

I would not have any issues buying an authentic watch from a friend in hard times..

I would not "loan" the money, as that very likely becomes a charity case and only hard feelings will ensue....... a purchase is a business deal and both parties walk away intact..

A modern Sea Dweller is worth the same whether it has an obsolete warranty card or not. (there is no real " authentication paper")

GoldenBear · 17 June 2009, 01:44 AM

If you can afford to, maybe you can loan him the money and keep the watch as collateral. If in a certain amount of time he can't buy it back then you should be free to sell it. Buying a watch you don't like doesn't make sense. Maybe you will grow to love it.

daytona1 · 17 June 2009, 03:46 AM

I think I buy my buddies YM like every six months or so. When he needs some money he gives me his watch and I give him 5k for a month or so. If I dont get paid I keep the watch. About lending friends money you'll never get it back. and after you asked for it back a thousand times now you feel like a jerk for asking. Thats why I take security even from friends!!!

16 June 2009, 06:03 AM	#1
Anthony Fierro "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3	With Box, No Papers I have a good friend who has fallen on hard times and has offered to sell his sea dweller 4000ft with gas escape valve and non cyclops date. He has had it for the 7 years that I have known him and wore it often until about the last 3 years. I am 100% confident in it's authenticity and it's in perfect condition. Only problem is he has the box but no papers. I'ts not a watch I would buy if I were headed out to buy one and had a full selection to choose from, not really my style, but I want to help my friend out. Do you all have any opinions on how I should handle this? Can I get new papers for when I want to sell it? Just because I know and trust this guy doesn't mean anybody will know and trust me. Or if I buy the watch, it is a good price, am I stuck with it for life? I appriciate all of your feedback, Thanks

16 June 2009, 06:07 AM	#2
scottschoe "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: CA Posts: 3,295	No you can't get new papers, but you can have it serviced and those papers are worth more IMO. A lack of papers isn't a dealbreaker for me on most watches. __________________ __________________

16 June 2009, 06:09 AM	#3
Troy Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Real Name: Troy Location: Calgary, Alberta Watch: Tudor Sub. 7928 Posts: 1,275	When you send it in for service you will get papers for it.Has it been serviced if not factor in about $500.00 for that, you will have a new looking watch plus papersScott beat me to it Last edited by Troy; 16 June 2009 at 06:10 AM.. Reason: added a line

16 June 2009, 07:41 AM	#8
Asad "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Stillwater, OK Posts: 96	Papers carry very little value, as long as the watch is authentic.... __________________ Have: Omega Speedmaster Had:Too Many to List; Panerai's, IWC's Omega's, Tag Heuer's and Breitling's.

16 June 2009, 05:26 PM	#15
Colnago "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Real Name: Bill Hart Location: Richmond, NY, UK Watch: Rlx=3, Tdr=3, Om=3 Posts: 3,053	Loan him a %age of the money he wants now, you could easily loan him a further %age later, in a way it minimises the chance of him "blowing the lot" (plus you are not so heavily out of pocket) Then tell him you are taking the watch purely as security and he is welcome to consider it that "you are just looking after it for him" until such a time arrises when either he tells you that you may sell it to settle the debt or that he can afford to buy it back. It's effectively a good deal for you because in all liklihood you could sell it for more than the full current asking price....split the profit and everyone is happy....or make your friend very happy when he "buys it back" because you have looked after his watch so well....... You are in a win win situation as long as the value of the watch doesn't plummet (that surely has to be unlikely)....and if you stick to only lending him 50 to 75% but explain that if the watch has to be sold in the end, then you get your initial "investment" back and he gets the remainder.....you haven't made a profit but neither are you out of pocket and you have done your best for him.... __________________ Bill "There's only three kinds of people in this world....those that can count....and those that can't" TRF's "JJ's" Bar & NightClub Patron

16 June 2009, 06:43 AM	#4
Gold Crown Banned Join Date: May 2009 Real Name: Ross Location: Chicago Area Watch: 6265 18K Daytona Posts: 928	Look at prices on e bay, not asking prices but the price it actually sold for. Ebay is a good place to sell also.

16 June 2009, 06:43 AM	#5
Chris B "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Peterborough Posts: 9,631	If he's a good friend (& they really are priceless) let him keep his watch & loan him the money until his circumstances improve. We shouldn't seek any advantage of our friends should we???

16 June 2009, 07:10 AM	#7
jlovda "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2009 Real Name: John Location: Midwest Watch: 5513,1675,216570 Posts: 1,505	What is so magical about papers? Maybe we should petition the Secr. of State in each state to issue titles for these watches. But then we would have to buy a sticker each year to put on the back. What papers are important? What if you have an invoice from the dealer with SN but no fancy Rolex diploma-like warranty sheet?

16 June 2009, 08:16 AM	#9
onkyo Banned Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: Pav Location: Manhattan Posts: 11,495	Original papers are important to collectors (and boxes too). Having a complete set can add significant value to a vintage watch. For non-collectors, they are worthless.

16 June 2009, 08:23 AM	#10
allanofcalifornia "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Allan Location: California Posts: 3,210	I believe most people, including myself, prefer to have all the accessories for a Rolex when they buy it. The papers are special since they can never be replaced and therefore increases the value of the watch. Allan

16 June 2009, 02:56 PM	#11
MikeJaye Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: London Posts: 675	For me if someone can't look after a piece of paper and a box it is an indication of how they might have looked after their watch. I know there must be exceptional cases but it's not exactly difficult to keep the box and papers is it.

16 June 2009, 04:42 PM	#13
Mwing "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 216	hm... papers... i have a good friend of mine selling a ss daytona z-series white dial brand new with stickers on no box no papers for 8.5k CDN, im still thinking about it too, he bought a white gold mop dial daytona and a tt gmt2c and a something like ap, and forgot about the ss daytona until recently he moved to a new place and found that out.

16 June 2009, 05:10 PM	#14
Singslinger "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: singapore Posts: 6,424	Since it's not a watch you hankered after, the best thing to do IMO is tell him the truth and advise him to sell it either on Ebay or to a secondhand dealer. While I admire your desire to help a friend out, I don't see the point in buying something you didn't really want in the first place. As someone before me said, maybe just loan him the money instead of buying the watch.

17 June 2009, 12:45 AM	#16
Tools TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Larry Location: Mojave Desert Watch: GMT's Posts: 43,515	I would not have any issues buying an authentic watch from a friend in hard times.. I would not "loan" the money, as that very likely becomes a charity case and only hard feelings will ensue....... a purchase is a business deal and both parties walk away intact.. A modern Sea Dweller is worth the same whether it has an obsolete warranty card or not. (there is no real " authentication paper") __________________ (Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member

17 June 2009, 01:44 AM	#17
GoldenBear "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Francisco Watch: Submariner Posts: 2,480	If you can afford to, maybe you can loan him the money and keep the watch as collateral. If in a certain amount of time he can't buy it back then you should be free to sell it. Buying a watch you don't like doesn't make sense. Maybe you will grow to love it. __________________ ____________________________________________ Rolex Blue TT Submariner Rolex SS Submariner Breitling Emergency Mission They are just watches, wear 'em. ____________________________________________

17 June 2009, 03:46 AM	#18
daytona1 Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: miami Posts: 673	I think I buy my buddies YM like every six months or so. When he needs some money he gives me his watch and I give him 5k for a month or so. If I dont get paid I keep the watch. About lending friends money you'll never get it back. and after you asked for it back a thousand times now you feel like a jerk for asking. Thats why I take security even from friends!!!

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