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EdwardC · 26 January 2022, 07:54 AM

This is madness

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Basic_Satisfaction · 26 January 2022, 08:24 AM

It's an excellent watch that has been horribly undervalued when compared to the Jumbo and 5711.

Willyjo · 26 January 2022, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwardC

This is madness

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EdwardC · 26 January 2022, 09:41 AM

This is Chrono24

huncho · 26 January 2022, 09:50 AM

it sort of makes sense. AP produce a good amount less than patek and the 5711 has been over 100 for a while along with the jumbo. this is the next best thing

Fenrira · 26 January 2022, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huncho

it sort of makes sense. AP produce a good amount less than patek and the 5711 has been over 100 for a while along with the jumbo. this is the next best thing

AP does produce fewer pieces from Patek but let’s remember that Patek has a far more diversified line-up.

VogelPhoenix · 26 January 2022, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenrira

AP does produce fewer pieces from Patek but let’s remember that Patek has a far more diversified line-up.

Defined how? AP lists 215 "models" on their website vs 155 from PP. I don't know if it's obvious that there are more of a specific 15500ST variant in circulation than 5711s.

Fenrira · 26 January 2022, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Defined how? AP lists 215 "models" on their website vs 155 from PP. I don't know if it's obvious that there are more of a specific 15500ST variant in circulation than 5711s.

I’m referring to model line-ups. Patek has the Calatrava, Complications, Grand Comps, Twenty-4, Aquanaut and Nautilus among others which comprise their annual production. AP has three main lines and the 15500st, while handsome, is the most run-of-the-mill Royal Oak available. AP may have more models, but many of those include rare and limited edition pieces like bejewelled tourbillons, frosted openworked watches, etc. As such, it’s difficult for me to imagine that the 15500ST doesn’t make up a pretty significant portion of annual production on its own.

HMHM · 26 January 2022, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenrira

AP does produce fewer pieces from Patek but let’s remember that Patek has a far more diversified line-up.

Patek may have a more diverse line-up. I agree with that. However, the RO is really really top notch! And between a RO double balance wheel openworked or QP ceramic against a 5740G, I would pick the ROs every single day! No doubt!

7sins · 26 January 2022, 09:58 AM

Maybe it is just me but I would take a 15202 EVERY AND ANY DAY over a 15500 especially now at similar aftermarket prices. No contest in my book.

EdwardC · 26 January 2022, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7sins

Maybe it is just me but I would take a 15202 EVERY AND ANY DAY over a 15500 especially now at similar aftermarket prices. No contest in my book.

If a 15202 has the second hand, that will be perfect. I prefer he 15450 for that reason

macrowatch · 26 January 2022, 10:26 AM

I feel left out in the size ala carte menu! 37mm way too small. 39mm just a hair too small. 41 just a hair too big. Where's my piece unique at 40mm with a second hand?

Separately, I thought the Ed Sheeran interview was so interesting because he expressed so eloquently what watches have morphed into since 2018. Yes partly investments, but more so as signifiers of status. And when that's the need of the majority of new buyers, well, I think we're only talking about a handful of watches that will satisfy the need right? RM, Nautilus, maybe Aqua, Daytona, and Blue RO.

Also, I don't know about anyone else, but I actually have yet to see a blue RO or jumbo in the wild. Lots of Nautilus, lots of Daytona, but I actually kind of like that I haven't bumped into another blue RO. Literally the only one I've seen was on the wrist of senior management of AP.

Thank goodness at least our gripes in this corner of TRF are only about do we like Black Panther rather than having the gnaw off our own arm trying to get t-stamps.

911AP · 26 January 2022, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwardC

If a 15202 has the second hand, that will be perfect. I prefer he 15450 for that reason

How can you compare the 15450 to a 15202? That's like people comparing the 15202 to a 15500. It's completely different. 37mm is too small the same way 41mm is too big. That's why 39mm is perfect. Not to mention the thinness of the watch is IMO the real value of that watch. The only proper comparison to a 15202 is the 15300.

ts3 · 26 January 2022, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911AP

How can you compare the 15450 to a 15202? That's like people comparing the 15202 to a 15500. It's completely different. 37mm is too small the same way 41mm is too big. That's why 39mm is perfect. Not to mention the thinness of the watch is IMO the real value of that watch. The only proper comparison to a 15202 is the 15300.

Truth.

cascavel · 26 January 2022, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911AP

How can you compare the 15450 to a 15202? That's like people comparing the 15202 to a 15500. It's completely different. 37mm is too small the same way 41mm is too big. That's why 39mm is perfect. Not to mention the thinness of the watch is IMO the real value of that watch. The only proper comparison to a 15202 is the 15300.

Back in prehistoric times, I'm talking 2015, I went into the 57th st. AP boutique in NYC to get a blue dial 15400. They didn't have one in stock but told me I could order one and they would have it in 2 months. OR I could buy a 15202st, which they had in stock, but it was $22,500, vs $17,500 for the 15400st. The SA also told me how rare the 15202 was and that they never get them. So I bought the 15202.
Two months later I dropped in to say hello to my SA and there was another 15202st in the display case for sale. The SA explained that, because it had no seconds hand, it was more of an acquired taste. Did they have a blue dial 15400st in stock? Nope.
The blue dial Royal Oak 15400 or 15500 was always more popular than the 15202
until it, somehow, became popular with geeks.

911AP · 26 January 2022, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cascavel

Back in prehistoric times, I'm talking 2015, I went into the 57th st. AP boutique in NYC to get a blue dial 15400. They didn't have one in stock but told me I could order one and they would have it in 2 months. OR I could buy a 15202st, which they had in stock, but it was $22,500, vs $17,500 for the 15400st. The SA also told me how rare the 15202 was and that they never get them. So I bought the 15202.
Two months later I dropped in to say hello to my SA and there was another 15202st in the display case for sale. The SA explained that, because it had no seconds hand, it was more of an acquired taste. Did they have a blue dial 15400st in stock? Nope.
The blue dial Royal Oak 15400 or 15500 was always more popular than the 15202
until it, somehow, became popular with geeks.

The market speaks. !5202 still higher even if the 15500 is catching up. I think we'll see a jump in price of the 15202.

I've had both. I prefer the 15202 even without the second hand and pain in the ass date window.

TunaTuna · 27 January 2022, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911AP

The only proper comparison to a 15202 is the 15300.

Really?

ramenlover · 28 January 2022, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911AP

How can you compare the 15450 to a 15202? That's like people comparing the 15202 to a 15500. It's completely different. 37mm is too small the same way 41mm is too big. That's why 39mm is perfect. Not to mention the thinness of the watch is IMO the real value of that watch. The only proper comparison to a 15202 is the 15300.

15300 vs 15202? Comparing a standard production watch whose dial wasn’t even made in-house with a workhorse movement, to an icon with the 2121 and all the design cues of the original?

As any AP aficionado will tell you, the listed diameter means next to nothing – it’s all about proportions. The 26320, 15400, 15500 and 26239 wear very differently even though they’re all 41mm. Just because the 15300 is 39mm isn’t a good enough reason to compare it to a 15202. The only AP the 15202 can be compared to is the 5402, and now the 16202.

karasus · 29 January 2022, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramenlover

15300 vs 15202? Comparing a standard production watch whose dial wasn’t even made in-house with a workhorse movement, to an icon with the 2121 and all the design cues of the original?

As any AP aficionado will tell you, the listed diameter means next to nothing – it’s all about proportions. The 26320, 15400, 15500 and 26239 wear very differently even though they’re all 41mm. Just because the 15300 is 39mm isn’t a good enough reason to compare it to a 15202. The only AP the 15202 can be compared to is the 5402, and now the 16202.

The 5402 dial was made in the same factory (stern creations) as early 15300.

The clasp of the 5402 was made by gay freres. I know I had a 5402 and you can google this.

The movement was made by JLC and shared between the Vacheron 222, 3700 nautilus and the 5402 RO. The JLC movement was a workhorse movement.

Nothing about the 5402 is "in house".

The 15300 is closer in spirit to the 5402, and than the 15202. The 15300 is an organic direct descendent of the 5402.

The 15202 is a zombie in a pretty dress resurrected by marketing departments.

Watch enthusiasts cringe at faux lume but nobody is cringing at dressed up faux vintage movements

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/in...guet-royal-oak

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ju...wesome-super-t

I'm glad that the 16202 is out and that there is a modern movement in it.

KBM · 28 January 2022, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwardC

If a 15202 has the second hand, that will be perfect. I prefer he 15450 for that reason

That and a quick set date.

GreenLantern · 26 January 2022, 10:55 AM

I mean, why not ask for the moon these days?

It's all the same, anyway. None of it makes sense anymore.

GreenLantern · 26 January 2022, 11:04 AM

You're all still talking about the merits of the watch against the list prices on Chrono24 or grey market dealers.

It's no longer about the merits of the watch. It hasn't been for at least a year now.

The prices are based on speculation, hoarding, and promoting watches as an inflation-resistant investment.

DonLee · 26 January 2022, 12:13 PM

it certainly will after the 15500st discontinues soon.

xjeeunitx · 28 January 2022, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonLee

it certainly will after the 15500st discontinues soon.

it was just released in 2019? what makes you think 15500st will be discontinued? the releases of this year is only catching up to the updates of the 15500st (movement, dial, etc). i will say it this model won't change for at least a five years other than introduction of a new dial color (maybe, if that).

TunaTuna · 29 January 2022, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjeeunitx

it was just released in 2019? what makes you think 15500st will be discontinued? the releases of this year is only catching up to the updates of the 15500st (movement, dial, etc). i will say it this model won't change for at least a five years other than introduction of a new dial color (maybe, if that).