Gronefeld strategy

[startrolexendrolex]

With them closing ordering and AD not taking anymore orders, I would like see what consumers think about this strategy. Would this hurt them in the long run by shutting it down. I would keep the list open but not shutting it down.

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[FrugalGreubel]

I understand their logic for closing the list. It sucks, but I get it. You can’t just let the waitlist grow longer and longer. Hopefully they are able to hire and train more watchmakers that meet their standards and they will open it back up and can reasonably maintain it. Right now is such a odd time for watches and especially independents. The next few years are gonna be interesting for sure.

[vitalsigns]

I think this is good customer service. Don't over-promise like so many others. When there is too much backlog, just close the books for the time being. They can always be opened up when they work off the backlog. And those who are still passionate about Gronefeld watches can sign up then.

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by startrolexendrolex

With them closing ordering and AD not taking anymore orders, I would like see what consumers think about this strategy. Would this hurt them in the long run by shutting it down. I would keep the list open but not shutting it down.

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With respect, your strategy is terrible because it ends up leading to a fake list, either one where your name is thrown away or an infinitely long list that will never lead to watches for the people on it. To be fair, this is how almost every company seems to do it. Like probably a lot of people, I've put my name on lists or given my number for a callback and rarely gotten a response unless a prior relationship has been established.

Gronefeld is doing what they do and being how they are, a couple of good people who do right by others. I will never own a Gronefeld (my attention is elsewhere), but I've chatted with them and even asked hard questions and they have always been honest and cool. That makes a great impression and they will definitely have a market whenever they open up again.

[_speedmaster_]

It's not really a strategy. They didn't have a choice. It is a very, very small operation and scaling up production to meet the crazy demand was not doable; a combination of limited shop space, limited machinery and (most importantly) limited qualified watchmakers. With a product that is highly hand-finishef you can't just simply ramp up production. You can't simply hire new employees, you need years to learn what they have to teach you.

The brothers have too much integrity to pump out lesser, mostly assembly line products. They have too much integrity to create waitlists that force you to wait 10 years.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

The brothers have too much integrity to pump out lesser, mostly assembly line products. They have too much integrity to create waitlists that force you to wait 10 years.

Great post Speedmaster and that's (part of) why they get a lot of respect.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Great post Speedmaster and that's (part of) why they get a lot of respect.

To go so far as to tell potential customers to look at other independents is a class move. Great guys through and through.

[Yobrooks]

A tough situation for sure but the company is more about the ability to maintain their extremely high level of workmanship, finishing and ingenuity than it is to crank out watches. The have hired a few more watchmakers and finishers and hopefully will be able to "open up" soon. I know they are set to release a new complication soon... Keep an eye out. I patiently await my Principia... Probably 1 year away.

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[beshannon]

I applaud Gronefeld for their decision.

It is too easy to be greedy and many companies are simply sucked into the hype.

I want to get a Gronefeld but I would rather wait until they can deliver a high quality product rather than a fake wait list or a rushed to market cash in product.

[sgrossma]

I'm not sure if it was their intent, but closing the lists actually created more hype demand. People want what they can't have. So as others have mentioned, the list continues to grow in an unofficial manner. When they are allowed to take orders again through ADs, ADs are going to favor their best customers, understandably so perhaps, and those orders will take priority. At this point, they probably would have enough demand for 10 years + of orders if they were to re-open.

[thekman]

Was lucky to receive my Principia the day after they announced they had stopped taking orders. I definitely think their move was a classy one. Better than 99% of the other manufacturers that are not transparent with allocations. At least now you know where you stand.

[GB-man]

It seemed a bit like a marketing move when they announced it but have to agree better to not alter the product or give false hope.

It’s the oldest trick in the book though. You can’t have it. Oooh now I want one. Pulled a Willy wonka. “How much for the oompa loompas wonka” “they’re not for sale!”

Fortunately for me I don’t really crave one although they do top absolutely shelf work.

[ajw45]

It's a tough one, I respect the move but not sure it's a strategy so much as being overwhelmed and just trying to turn things down a bit. Long term I don't think it really matters one way or another. Sure, they can close the books for now but what happens when they open them? There will be a flood of people trying to get in before the books get closed again and it'll be hype town. I'm not sure anything has really been solved here. Further, an AD was teasing me with their new release this year and given the order books are closed that will probably be some AD exclusive grab your ankles unobtanium which doesn't sound good either.

On the other hand, I inquired about a watch with a different brand and they came back to me with a 2025 delivery date! Is that better or worse than if they had simply closed the books? I don't know but at least there is the option to wait vs not at all and I guess I prefer that. It doesn't generate hype, it's not fast, that feels more authentic to me. I see nothing wrong with long lists and wait times for a watch if it's a legit quality product worth waiting for and not artificially limited in product. As for the efficacy of having such a long list, if the deposits to be on the list are substantial and non-refundable I think that makes for a pretty stable list that weeds out the flippers and the hypesters.

[thekman]

Originally Posted by ajw45

It's a tough one, I respect the move but not sure it's a strategy so much as being overwhelmed and just trying to turn things down a bit. Long term I don't think it really matters one way or another. Sure, they can close the books for now but what happens when they open them? There will be a flood of people trying to get in before the books get closed again and it'll be hype town. I'm not sure anything has really been solved here. Further, an AD was teasing me with their new release this year and given the order books are closed that will probably be some AD exclusive grab your ankles unobtanium which doesn't sound good either.

On the other hand, I inquired about a watch with a different brand and they came back to me with a 2025 delivery date! Is that better or worse than if they had simply closed the books? I don't know but at least there is the option to wait vs not at all and I guess I prefer that. It doesn't generate hype, it's not fast, that feels more authentic to me. I see nothing wrong with long lists and wait times for a watch if it's a legit quality product worth waiting for and not artificially limited in product. As for the efficacy of having such a long list, if the deposits to be on the list are substantial and non-refundable I think that makes for a pretty stable list that weeds out the flippers and the hypesters.

Did your AD indicate at all when their new release is excepted to be?

[startrolexendrolex]

Interesting prospectives thanks everyone, I guess I'm in the camp of perfect to wait since these brothers are down to earth people and they won't be playing games, if they tell me 3 years I will take them at their word. Now I don't know when I can get one and the grey market are almost double msrp and continue to go higher, I'm kind of stuck in limbo.

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[bondtoys]

Imo, it‘s particular a strategic decision.
As far as I see it, the majority of current orders are for the Principa 3-handlers.
Pretty sure they want to move to a higher level of complication and pricing, so because their capacities are so limited, they must limit the orders for Principas in order to have room for other projects to come.

[raclaims]

Just picked up a 1941 remontoir...very impressive watches!

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by raclaims

Just picked up a 1941 remontoir...very impressive watches!

Congrats!

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by raclaims

Just picked up a 1941 remontoir...very impressive watches!

Big congrats, that's an awesome piece.

[raclaims]

Pix




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[startrolexendrolex]

Originally Posted by raclaims

Pix




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Where did you get it? Man these a perfection.

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[sgrossma]

Congrats! Did you get it pre-owned or was it a recent delivery? These rarely come to market!

[Yobrooks]

Wow, do I Love this watch! Huge Congrats. Was it pre-owned? I thought they were all sold out. What a great company ; I wished they kept the rementoir in production.

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[dchang81]

Is that one from Danny?

[Stranger]

I think it's a mistake to close the lists. What is right is to reduce frustration, but closing the lists isn't the way to do it.

What Gronefeld should do is keep the lists open but not guarantee a specific model or a specific price (those things will change over 2-3 years.) So people would put their name on a list, maybe with a very small deposit to weed out jokers (say $200). When Gronefeld is getting ready to produce N units of model XYZ, they contact the first N people on the list and tell them: "Are you interested in model XYZ for price $$$, with the following limited options..." People would either (1) accept & get a unit allocated. At this point they would pay the full price or a large deposit. Alternatively, (2) some would choose not to partake and stay on the list for the next batch, keeping their spot in the line. So if they were #10 and that 4 of the 9 people ahead of them subscribed for the model in production, then they would now be at the #5 spot. This is not that hard to manage.

[startrolexendrolex]

Originally Posted by Stranger

I think it's a mistake to close the lists. What is right is to reduce frustration, but closing the lists isn't the way to do it.

What Gronefeld should do is keep the lists open but not guarantee a specific model or a specific price (those things will change over 2-3 years.) So people would put their name on a list, maybe with a very small deposit to weed out jokers (say $200). When Gronefeld is getting ready to produce N units of model XYZ, they contact the first N people on the list and tell them: "Are you interested in model XYZ for price $$$, with the following limited options..." People would either (1) accept & get a unit allocated. At this point they would pay the full price or a large deposit. Alternatively, (2) some would choose not to partake and stay on the list for the next batch, keeping their spot in the line. So if they were #10 and that 4 of the 9 people ahead of them subscribed for the model in production, then they would now be at the #5 spot. This is not that hard to manage.

I like this.

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[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by Stranger

I think it's a mistake to close the lists. What is right is to reduce frustration, but closing the lists isn't the way to do it.

What Gronefeld should do is keep the lists open but not guarantee a specific model or a specific price (those things will change over 2-3 years.) So people would put their name on a list, maybe with a very small deposit to weed out jokers (say $200). When Gronefeld is getting ready to produce N units of model XYZ, they contact the first N people on the list and tell them: "Are you interested in model XYZ for price $$$, with the following limited options..." People would either (1) accept & get a unit allocated. At this point they would pay the full price or a large deposit. Alternatively, (2) some would choose not to partake and stay on the list for the next batch, keeping their spot in the line. So if they were #10 and that 4 of the 9 people ahead of them subscribed for the model in production, then they would now be at the #5 spot. This is not that hard to manage.

Why? Why would they go through that headache? On top of taking countless orders and deposits for a watch they don’t even have yet, you want them to contact these potential buyers months, if not over a year into it so they can gauge if the potential customer is interested in the new piece still? If the potential customer can afford the watch at the new price. If the potential customer hasn’t moved on and purchased something else if they get tired of waiting. What purpose does that serve them?

If you, as a potential customer, are willing to wait on some list for an undetermined amount of time for a watch you haven’t even seen then surely you can wait the same amount of time and place your name when orders open up for the new watch.

Honestly, every independent brand should just say, we made X watches. First X people get it. I don’t care who you are. I don’t care who you know. I don’t care if you’ve purchased from us before. That’s it. When it’s over, it’s over. Better luck being first in line for the next release. If you are a known flipper (these brands know a lot of these flippers btw) you don’t get the watch.

[startrolexendrolex]

I'm at a point now that I'm just going grey and buy one from watchbox.

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[Yobrooks]

Gronefeld is one of the haute horologie indies which you can really justify the grey market prices. Impeccable finishing, ingenuity, true customer appreciation, and poised for great things moving forward in their new manufacture. I'm awaiting (with patience) my Principia. Hopefully, one day, I'll be able to get the 8 second remontoire.

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[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Yobrooks

Gronefeld is one of the haute horologie indies which you can really justify the grey market prices.

Don't say that too loud or certain grey dealers (TPG) will start hoarding and price manipulating.