Electric Car question....

[Blansky]

Not interested in debating the coming of electrics but I live in an area where every other car is a Range Rover or a Tesla.

My question is, I saw a Tesla yesterday with a New Jersey license plate and I guess it could have been shipped here to California but was wondering what/how the logistics are these days of driving one across country?

Are there ways to plan the trip much like in the old days on Route 66 where you plotted your course and decided which motels to stay at on which nights etc as you made your way across country.

Do you need to plan where and how to hit charging stations and are there computer apps that can do that for you and how long does it take to charge at each location?

Are there specific routes you'd take to not hit too much backcountry as you navigate it. It's a vast country with mile after mile of wide open areas.

[AzPaul]

Seems as though Google would be your friend on the details with this.

[sgarrity]

The car helps you plan. And here is the Tesla network….

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by sgarrity

The car helps you plan. And here is the Tesla network….

Thanks but pardon my ignorance but are the Tesla locations 24 hour charging stations, are there waiting lines, are they free, and how long does a full charge take?

I'm guessing everyone knows the panic in a gas powered car of being out in the middle of nowhere and the gas light comes on and you swear at yourself for not stopping 50 miles back but it wasn't your brand of gas......and damn....damn.....damn, why didn't I stop there....etc etc

I can't imagine how that would feel with an electric with it's specific needs of "refilling".

[sgarrity]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Thanks but pardon my ignorance but are the Tesla locations 24 hour charging stations, are there waiting lines, are they free, and how long does a full charge take?

Yes they’re 24 hours
The car tells you how many charging stalls are being used and are open at each supercharger.
Theoretically you could have to wait. I’ve never had to wait more than a few minutes. If Tesla opens up their chargers to other EVs as has recently been discussed, I would expect some wait time in the future.

Charging times vary depending on your trip. 15-20 mins normally gets you what you need.
Tesla was doing free charging for awhile. They offered a year if you referred someone. The Model S might still get something free with a new one. But you generally have to pay. It’s all in an app and you don’t have to do anything but plug in the car and go. Super easy and no hassle.

[Tools]

It is more likely that the Tesla owner has simply registered his vehicle in another state/residence.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Tools

It is more likely that the Tesla owner has simply registered his vehicle in another state/residence.

Perhaps. It's just when we saw the plate we wondered how easy it would be to make that trip.

I'm guessing that most people still use electrics as more soccer mom and commuter cars and are not really thinking about trips. Yet, anyways.

[Tools]

Sometimes you have to wait for a while

2020.2.12-Flooded-bays-2-C.jpg

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by sgarrity

Yes they’re 24 hours
The car tells you how many charging stalls are being used and are open at each supercharger.
Theoretically you could have to wait. I’ve never had to wait more than a few minutes. If Tesla opens up their chargers to other EVs as has recently been discussed, I would expect some wait time in the future.

Charging times vary depending on your trip. 15-20 mins normally gets you what you need.
Tesla was doing free charging for awhile. They offered a year if you referred someone. The Model S might still get something free with a new one. But you generally have to pay. It’s all in an app and you don’t have to do anything but plug in the car and go. Super easy and no hassle.

So do you think a person in an Tesla or an electric could easily travel across country with little different than someone in a gas car, or are we not there yet.

Sorry....brought to mind...are we there yet? Are we there yet? SHUT UP!!!!

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Blansky

So do you think a person in an Tesla or an electric could easily travel across country with little different than someone in a gas car, or are we not there yet.

Sorry....brought to mind...are we there yet? Are we there yet? SHUT UP!!!!

I can only give you an anecdotal story, but a colleague of my wife owns a Tesla and they drove from Toronto area to Florida recently with no issue. As above the car let’s you know where charging stations are along your route and you can in effect plan your trip and the car takes care of the rest.

We are thinking of adding an all electric vehicle in the next few years, but we’d like to see what some of the other manufacturers come out with

[CalSRQ1]

So we just did a trip within Florida…here’s the reality of the superchargers: it cost us about $25 for 200/225 miles of charge. It’s really hot outside, and with the AC running and heat we didn’t get the full use of the projected miles. So in reality if you’re not charging at home, your getting/paying about a 40mpg ICE.

I love our Tesla- and it’s fantastic for local around town…and maybe an occasional long trip; just don’t think you’re saving anything over ICE if your using superchargers. However my road trip experience is they are convenient and no wait (so far) and took about an hour to get me from 10% charge to 90%

[V25V]

Originally Posted by CalSRQ1

So we just did a trip within Florida…here’s the reality of the superchargers: it cost us about $25 for 200/225 miles of charge. It’s really hot outside, and with the AC running and heat we didn’t get the full use of the projected miles. So in reality if you’re not charging at home, your getting/paying about a 40mpg ICE.

I love our Tesla- and it’s fantastic for local around town…and maybe an occasional long trip; just don’t think you’re saving anything over ICE if your using superchargers. However my road trip experience is they are convenient and no wait (so far) and took about an hour to get me from 10% charge to 90%

Waiting an hour to charge my car is a deal breaker for me on a trip. I hate to stop, let alone sit there or waste time doing something else while I could be on my way. I'm sure this will get better.....


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[Chewbacca]

Tesla’s come with onboard route charge and distance guidance based on charging and destination. The most popular interstates and freeways and toll routes are factored. Or, Google.

(But do do your research if you’re about to drink the rare earths 9yr old kids mining water shed contaminating tax rebate scamming supply chain disaster kool aide which is todays EVs business model.

Buy a hybrid instead. Best balance if you’re feeling guilty, or a fuel efficient ice car or best, a hydrogen Toyota Mirai (real future).

100% EVs as cars and trucks are not sustainable and cause 70% more pollution from cradle to grave than a comparison ice car while killing electrical grids and raising electricity prices making heating and cooking more expensive.


)

[binArt]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Tesla’s come with onboard route charge and distance guidance based on charging and destination. The most popular interstates and freeways and toll routes are factored. Or, Google.

(But do do your research if you’re about to drink the rare earths 9yr old kids mining water shed contaminating tax rebate scamming supply chain disaster kool aide which is todays EVs business model.

Buy a hybrid instead. Best balance if you’re feeling guilty, or a fuel efficient ice car or best, a hydrogen Toyota Mirai (real future).

100% EVs as cars and trucks are not sustainable and cause 70% more pollution from cradle to grave than a comparison ice car while killing electrical grids and raising electricity prices making heating and cooking more expensive.


)

Most hydrogen currently comes from fossil fuels and they aren't building new power plants these days. Proper hybrids (not Cayenne Turbo S e-hybrids) are the best current solution.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by binArt

Most hydrogen currently comes from fossil fuels and they aren't building new power plants these days. Proper hybrids (not Cayenne Turbo S e-hybrids) are the best current solution.

Blasphemy!!!!!

(You’re right tho haha)

[TheVTCGuy]

I can’t argue with anything you said… Primarily because I’m not smart enough… But a couple things. ‘

I never said gasoline cars would vaporize in 2035, you just can’t buy a new one starting then. ICE vehicles will be around a long time EVEN IF the deadline of 2035 is held to (I bet it will be extended to at least 2040). I also think, that hybrids are still allowed after that year, so gasoline engines will be with us for a long while. SOMEDAY though…. Their numbers will be lower then EVs (or fuel cell or… ?).

As to the power required, I can’t argue that either, except that in general we are producing more and more renewable sources every year. I realize it is about as low a percentage as EVs right now, but it too, is growing exponentially. One article brought up an interesting point. Energy is required to produce gasoline. Obviously retrieving crude oil, converting it in to usable gasoline etc. As less gasoline is required, the energy that is used to process it also declines. In addition, gasoline is very inefficient as an energy source to power your typical vehicle. Somewhere between 12 and 30 PERCENT efficient. Even I can understand this, with a 4-stroke engine you are not using energy very efficiently.

(Source: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml )

So, what does this all mean? I have no idea, except that yes, there are numerous problems to overcome and amount of electricity is but one. However, we are all thinking at current levels, technologies and capabilities; these are changing and advancing every day. IMHO, it will (continue to) snowball. 20 years from now, I honestly believe we will have solved these and EVs will be equal to ICE engine vehicles being bought and sold.

[donas]

I test drove a Tesla (before I lost interest). I asked this same question as we sometimes drive to Chas. SC. which is about a 6 -7 hr drive. The rep put the destination into the GPS and it calculated the route with the necessary charging stops and times at each stop. There really isn't anything for you, the driver, to figure out other than do you have the patience to add hours to your drive. I don't recall the exact amount of time added, but it was an immediate turn off for us. Long road trips are definitely doable, just exponentially longer.

[michaelodonnell123]

My electric utility company PSE&G keeps sending out notices to conserve electricity, yet our government is telling us to use electricity.

[binArt]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

My electric utility company PSE&G keeps sending out notices to conserve electricity, yet our government is telling us to use electricity.

We're going to need you to turn off your air conditioning and refrigerator so that we can charge our EV.

[JasoninDenver]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

My electric utility company PSE&G keeps sending out notices to conserve electricity, yet our government is telling us to use electricity.

I think we are at the tipping point here to benefit from point source renewable generation. The utilities will benefit from off loading generation to residential and business customers in many areas (obviously not highly dense downtowns) but this will also bring increased costs in transmission line upgrades. However, anyone in California and Texas will tell you this is greatly needed regardless of the generation source. Fires and grid collapse are here now.

The benefit of point source generation is that it requires much shorter transmission distance and results in much less wasted in transmission. Typical power plant generated energy loses up to 35% over long distance transmission.

So, for those of us who can install solar, an electric car may be ideal for the vast majority of our driving at the present time. Our family is the exact perfect target for solar and ev use and we are seriously considering it now. My wife’s commute is 25 miles RT. We drive 180 miles RT to our mountain home. This means that 95% of our driving will be well within home charging and/or generation capabilities.

We have been seriously debating the cost/benefit of a plug in hybrid versus pure ev. Honestly, while the initial cost of the ev is still off putting, the non existent ICE maintenance issues with ev is starting to look more and more attractive.

[binArt]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

I think we are at the tipping point here to benefit from point source renewable generation. The utilities will benefit from off loading generation to residential and business customers in many areas (obviously not highly dense downtowns) but this will also bring increased costs in transmission line upgrades. However, anyone in California and Texas will tell you this is greatly needed regardless of the generation source. Fires and grid collapse are here now.

The benefit of point source generation is that it requires much shorter transmission distance and results in much less wasted in transmission. Typical power plant generated energy loses up to 35% over long distance transmission.

So, for those of us who can install solar, an electric car may be ideal for the vast majority of our driving at the present time. Our family is the exact perfect target for solar and ev use and we are seriously considering it now. My wife’s commute is 25 miles RT. We drive 180 miles RT to our mountain home. This means that 95% of our driving will be well within home charging and/or generation capabilities.

We have been seriously debating the cost/benefit of a plug in hybrid versus pure ev. Honestly, while the initial cost of the ev is still off putting, the non existent ICE maintenance issues with ev is starting to look more and more attractive.

Excellent post.

I have a 2008 Prius with 208,000 miles on it. It's needed less than $1000 of maintenance other than tires, and has just about paid for itself in fuel savings. I have looked into full EV's a number of times and the math to replace the Prius has never been favorable.

[JasoninDenver]

Originally Posted by binArt

Excellent post.

I have a 2008 Prius with 208,000 miles on it. It's needed less than $1000 of maintenance other than tires, and has just about paid for itself in fuel savings. I have looked into full EV's a number of times and the math to replace the Prius has never been favorable.

So, would you even consider an EV or just go with another hybrid if you HAD to buy something this year?

[binArt]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

So, would you even consider an EV or just go with another hybrid if you HAD to buy something this year?

I would buy another hybrid. Much of my driving is in charging voids. It would be too inconvenient and time consuming to reroute for a charge. And, the cost of an EV with similar comforts and features is at least double that of a reliable hybrid. I would rather spend the cost difference on travel and watches to be be honest

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by binArt

Excellent post.

I have a 2008 Prius with 208,000 miles on it. It's needed less than $1000 of maintenance other than tires, and has just about paid for itself in fuel savings. I have looked into full EV's a number of times and the math to replace the Prius has never been favorable.

And you can rebuild the battery cells on the cheap or swap with rebuilds or run it 100% on gas.

Full EVs can’t do that and you need to drop the entire bottom of the car to access and there’s no independent providers.

[uscmatt99]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

I think we are at the tipping point here to benefit from point source renewable generation. The utilities will benefit from off loading generation to residential and business customers in many areas (obviously not highly dense downtowns) but this will also bring increased costs in transmission line upgrades. However, anyone in California and Texas will tell you this is greatly needed regardless of the generation source. Fires and grid collapse are here now.

The benefit of point source generation is that it requires much shorter transmission distance and results in much less wasted in transmission. Typical power plant generated energy loses up to 35% over long distance transmission.

So, for those of us who can install solar, an electric car may be ideal for the vast majority of our driving at the present time. Our family is the exact perfect target for solar and ev use and we are seriously considering it now. My wife’s commute is 25 miles RT. We drive 180 miles RT to our mountain home. This means that 95% of our driving will be well within home charging and/or generation capabilities.

We have been seriously debating the cost/benefit of a plug in hybrid versus pure ev. Honestly, while the initial cost of the ev is still off putting, the non existent ICE maintenance issues with ev is starting to look more and more attractive.

Great post with many good points to consider

My wife and I are sitting on this tipping point. Living in the city we hardly need to drive and sold 2 of our 3 vehicles after moving from Michigan. The previous owner had a Tesla and there is a charger in the garage. Our 2015 Acura MDX is paid off and running well. The question is when do we sell it and what do we purchase next?

I'd prefer to purchase an EV and install solar. My wife still prefers ICE vehicles for those rare times we drive more than 20 miles in a day, but she wants solar with battery backup just so we aren't as beholden to the electric company. I do the driving and fill the tank for the most part so I think I'll get the last say. I've been in a few Teslas and while the performance is amazing, the fit and finish is subpar for the asking price and it feels too "computer and battery on wheels" for me with that big screen running everything. For now I find the Audi line of EV's most to my taste. That said, I'm waiting for the tech to mature such that the vehicle itself can act as a battery backup for the home during outages, rather than needing separate power banks. This will be possible with the new Ford F150 Lightning, hopefully for other vehicles as the tech improves.

In summary.... I want to get a car that is also a battery backup for my house that requires much less maintenance and zero trips to a gas station. If the numbers make sense I'm all in.

[JasoninDenver]

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

Great post with many good points to consider

My wife and I are sitting on this tipping point. Living in the city we hardly need to drive and sold 2 of our 3 vehicles after moving from Michigan. The previous owner had a Tesla and there is a charger in the garage. Our 2015 Acura MDX is paid off and running well. The question is when do we sell it and what do we purchase next?

I'd prefer to purchase an EV and install solar. My wife still prefers ICE vehicles for those rare times we drive more than 20 miles in a day, but she wants solar with battery backup just so we aren't as beholden to the electric company. I do the driving and fill the tank for the most part so I think I'll get the last say. I've been in a few Teslas and while the performance is amazing, the fit and finish is subpar for the asking price and it feels too "computer and battery on wheels" for me with that big screen running everything. For now I find the Audi line of EV's most to my taste. That said, I'm waiting for the tech to mature such that the vehicle itself can act as a battery backup for the home during outages, rather than needing separate power banks. This will be possible with the new Ford F150 Lightning, hopefully for other vehicles as the tech improves.

In summary.... I want to get a car that is also a battery backup for my house that requires much less maintenance and zero trips to a gas station. If the numbers make sense I'm all in.

We have had two solar sales reps advise us NOT to get battery backups at this point as the price is still very high. They advised simply getting an ev like you mentioned and let its battery power the house during short outages.

We tend to lose power during winter storms for up to a day at a time once every year or so due to above ground power lines and 70 year old trees. I wired an essentials panel during a remodel to allow us to maintain heat, tv, internet and kitchen functions when I eventually do get battery backup.

Either the Tesla or F150 is a perfect option. I even looked at the F150 lightning and found that the current wait time is over three years but you could make an offer of at least $50k over kist on their demo when they can release these for sale in November.

We are seriously considering ordering the BMW IX5.

[Tricolore66]

I have a good friend who has done it twice, and frankly it sounds like a major shit show to me. Inoperable charging stations or people plugging in and disappearing for hours while others are waiting. I would never want to have to plan my trip around so much that I can’t control.

[904VT]

Lol. I’m sure 99.9% of Tesla owners brought their Tesla to demonstrate to their neighbors how much they contribute to reducing pollution, not take cross country trips. Cross country trips were in the days of ol’ reliables. Neither EVs nor ICE are that today. They’re all full of electronics waiting to fail during a cross country trip.

[R.bartlett]

Seems the vast majority of fossil fuel users simply have no idea of how advanced battery tech is and how far it's likely to go.

Already a EV can out perform any ICE vehicle and they are only really just getting getting going. A 1000k mile per charge is getting closer daily. battery life is expected to outlive the vehicle they are propelling. You don't need to swap out because they have died, charge times continue to tumble. Solar prices are falling daily. No other form of propulsion can you refuel at home 'free' than batteries.

There is a new Tesla coming out which again has moved the game on. EV manufacturers are leapfrogging each other with increased power density less weight further range cheaper technology. The Chinese are a major player already and it's expected the majority of legacy manufacturers are unlikely to compete over the next decade

Within 10 years EV's will have advanced by a unknown factor it's computer age tech and Browns law applies

I myself have a Lexus CT200h for over 3 years. Atthe time, I thought a hybrid was the best of both worlds.. Turns out they are the worst of both, neither a good EV or even ICE solution..

Best to either go full EV now or stick with ICE till the thing dies then go EV .

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by R.bartlett

Seems the vast majority of fossil fuel users simply have no idea of how advanced battery tech is and how far it's likely to go.

Already a EV can out perform any ICE vehicle and they are only really just getting getting going. A 1000k mile per charge is getting closer daily. battery life is expected to outlive the vehicle they are propelling. You don't need to swap out because they have died, charge times continue to tumble. Solar prices are falling daily. No other form of propulsion can you refuel at home 'free' than batteries.

There is a new Tesla coming out which again has moved the game on. EV manufacturers are leapfrogging each other with increased power density less weight further range cheaper technology. The Chinese are a major player already and it's expected the majority of legacy manufacturers are unlikely to compete over the next decade

Within 10 years EV's will have advanced by a unknown factor it's computer age tech and Browns law applies

I myself have a Lexus CT200h for over 3 years. Atthe time, I thought a hybrid was the best of both worlds.. Turns out they are the worst of both, neither a good EV or even ICE solution..

Best to either go full EV now or stick with ICE till the thing dies then go EV .

Exactly, all the naysayers say it’s impossible with today’s technology, I can’t argue, it probably, but the advancements that are being made WILL solve these issues. I am not smart enough to predict how or when, but some day we will look back at current EVs/energy/hydrogen and wonder how the hell did we make it work.