The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Rolex General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 30 July 2023, 01:21 PM   #1
Rahul718
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NYC
Posts: 60
116520 - 904L stainless steel?

Hello,

Can anyone confirm if the first 116520 that came out in the early 2000s used 904L stainless steel? I know the ones from 2016 did, but what about the 2000-2015 116520 models? I’ve searched online and I’ve seen some third parties mentioning that the earlier 116250 did use 904L but I can’t find anything official from Rolex.

Curious if anyone can confirm that the earliest 116520 models used 904L and if so, is there any official Rolex documentation that states this?

Thanks!

Last edited by Rahul718; 30 July 2023 at 01:42 PM.. Reason: Typo
Rahul718 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 July 2023, 01:50 PM   #2
KatGirl
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
KatGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Real Name: Kat
Location: CA, USA
Watch: 126233 Wimbledon T
Posts: 7,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul718 View Post
Hello,

Can anyone confirm if the first 116520 that came out in the early 2000s used 904L stainless steel? I know the ones from 2016 did, but what about the 2000-2015 116520 models? I’ve searched online and I’ve seen some third parties mentioning that the earlier 116250 did use 904L but I can’t find anything official from Rolex.

Curious if anyone can confirm that the earliest 116520 models used 904L and if so, is there any official Rolex documentation that states this?

Thanks!

Rolex has been using 904 L SS, since 1985.

Kat


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
KatGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 July 2023, 03:04 PM   #3
Solo118
2024 Pledge Member
 
Solo118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Watch: Daytona
Posts: 6,091
Yes absolutely
Solo118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 July 2023, 05:42 PM   #4
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 53,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul718 View Post
Hello,

Can anyone confirm if the first 116520 that came out in the early 2000s used 904L stainless steel? I know the ones from 2016 did, but what about the 2000-2015 116520 models? I’ve searched online and I’ve seen some third parties mentioning that the earlier 116250 did use 904L but I can’t find anything official from Rolex.

Curious if anyone can confirm that the earliest 116520 models used 904L and if so, is there any official Rolex documentation that states this?

Thanks!
Rolex they became the first watch manufacturer to use 904L grade steel in their watches in 1985.But there is nothing magical about 904L SS today, it was mainly a brag factor and marketing by Rolex as they were once the only watch manufacturer using it. Today several other companies use 904L SS in watches XOSKELETON for one,but in the real world 904L steel was developed to be used in high salt/acid factories like for instance vinegar pickling factories factories that use acid products etc.And the only difference between 904L and 316L is simply this,the main difference between 316L over 904L it has slightly more Molybdenum(Mo)approx 2% more, approx 1-2% more Crome(Cr),Appox 1%-2% copper(Cu), and approx 10% more nickel and that's it all quite cheap commodities.And today far more 316L is sold than 904L, now if it was the other way round 904L would be cheaper than 316L.There are some disadvantages to 904L it will scratch and show scratches more easily than 316L.The only advantage is, its a bit more corrosion resistant, but in the real world with today's pampered watches its doubtful if any real advantage over the industry norm 316L.And the internet myth that 904L is harder than 316L its not true, its how the metal is finally tempered defines its overall hardness, so 316L can be harder than 904L.Most all high end brands like say Patek use the industry 316L, if there was any real advantage dont you think all the major brands would use it,marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30 July 2023, 11:37 PM   #5
fskywalker
2024 Pledge Member
 
fskywalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Real Name: Francisco
Location: San Juan, PR
Watch: Is Ticking !
Posts: 25,181
116520 - 904L stainless steel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Rolex they became the first watch manufacturer to use 904L grade steel in their watches in 1985.But there is nothing magical about 904L SS today, it was mainly a brag factor and marketing by Rolex as they were once the only watch manufacturer using it. Today several other companies use 904L SS in watches XOSKELETON for one,but in the real world 904L steel was developed to be used in high salt/acid factories like for instance vinegar pickling factories factories that use acid products etc.And the only difference between 904L and 316L is simply this,the main difference between 316L over 904L it has slightly more Molybdenum(Mo)approx 2% more, approx 1-2% more Crome(Cr),Appox 1%-2% copper(Cu), and approx 10% more nickel and that's it all quite cheap commodities.And today far more 316L is sold than 904L, now if it was the other way round 904L would be cheaper than 316L.There are some disadvantages to 904L it will scratch and show scratches more easily than 316L.The only advantage is, its a bit more corrosion resistant, but in the real world with today's pampered watches its doubtful if any real advantage over the industry norm 316L.And the internet myth that 904L is harder than 316L its not true, its how the metal is finally tempered defines its overall hardness, so 316L can be harder than 904L.Most all high end brands like say Patek use the industry 316L, if there was any real advantage dont you think all the major brands would use it,marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.

PADI the wise! Thanks for sharing your wisdom Peter !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
Francisco
♛ 16610 / 116264
Ω 168.022 / 2535.80.00 / 310.30.42.50.01.002 / 210.90.42.20.01.001
Zenith 02.480.405

2FA security enabled
fskywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 12:21 AM   #6
leisen
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Rolex they became the first watch manufacturer to use 904L grade steel in their watches in 1985.But there is nothing magical about 904L SS today, it was mainly a brag factor and marketing by Rolex as they were once the only watch manufacturer using it. Today several other companies use 904L SS in watches XOSKELETON for one,but in the real world 904L steel was developed to be used in high salt/acid factories like for instance vinegar pickling factories factories that use acid products etc.And the only difference between 904L and 316L is simply this,the main difference between 316L over 904L it has slightly more Molybdenum(Mo)approx 2% more, approx 1-2% more Crome(Cr),Appox 1%-2% copper(Cu), and approx 10% more nickel and that's it all quite cheap commodities.And today far more 316L is sold than 904L, now if it was the other way round 904L would be cheaper than 316L.There are some disadvantages to 904L it will scratch and show scratches more easily than 316L.The only advantage is, its a bit more corrosion resistant, but in the real world with today's pampered watches its doubtful if any real advantage over the industry norm 316L.And the internet myth that 904L is harder than 316L its not true, its how the metal is finally tempered defines its overall hardness, so 316L can be harder than 904L.Most all high end brands like say Patek use the industry 316L, if there was any real advantage dont you think all the major brands would use it,marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.
Hi, Padi! Do you think it's true that 904L steel has a special shine that makes it more beautiful than 316L? I'd also like to know the opinion of the forum participants in this regard. Thanks.
leisen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 12:46 AM   #7
Nico81
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Charlotte, NC
Watch: Out
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by leisen View Post
Hi, Padi! Do you think it's true that 904L steel has a special shine that makes it more beautiful than 316L? I'd also like to know the opinion of the forum participants in this regard. Thanks.

Yes it does


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nico81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 01:04 AM   #8
leisen
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico81 View Post
Yes it does


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you, Sir.
leisen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 12:47 AM   #9
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 53,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by leisen View Post
Hi, Padi! Do you think it's true that 904L steel has a special shine that makes it more beautiful than 316L? I'd also like to know the opinion of the forum participants in this regard. Thanks.
Well that depends on the person's eyes and if they have brainwashed into thinking it is, myself cannot see any real stand out difference between the two SS.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 01:05 AM   #10
leisen
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Well that depends on the person's eyes and if they have brainwashed into thinking it is, myself cannot see any real stand out difference between the two SS.
Thank You, Padi. Very kind.
leisen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 06:04 PM   #11
Old Expat Beast
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Old Expat Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Adam
Location: Far East
Watch: Golden Tuna
Posts: 28,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by leisen View Post
Hi, Padi! Do you think it's true that 904L steel has a special shine that makes it more beautiful than 316L? I'd also like to know the opinion of the forum participants in this regard. Thanks.
Not that I can tell. I have had several of both and the only thing that really sets 904L apart is that it scratches much more easily.
__________________
_______________________
Old Expat Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 August 2023, 02:49 AM   #12
leisen
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spain
Posts: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast View Post
Not that I can tell. I have had several of both and the only thing that really sets 904L apart is that it scratches much more easily.
Interesting point of view, haha. So, according to you steel 904L is more a disadvantage than an improvement. It is clear that it is a controversial topic. I have to admit that 904L steel seems to me brighter than 316L but, like Padi56 said: "..depends on the person's eye and if they have brainwashed into thinking it is". So I'm not clear...
leisen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 August 2023, 08:38 AM   #13
Old Expat Beast
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Old Expat Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Adam
Location: Far East
Watch: Golden Tuna
Posts: 28,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by leisen View Post
Interesting point of view, haha. So, according to you steel 904L is more a disadvantage than an improvement. It is clear that it is a controversial topic. I have to admit that 904L steel seems to me brighter than 316L but, like Padi56 said: "..depends on the person's eye and if they have brainwashed into thinking it is". So I'm not clear...
Well I'm pretty sure it's a fact that 316L is more scratch resistant/harder than 904L but less resistant to corrosion. Also it's not just the type of steel used but what's done with it. Grand Seiko's Zaratsu case polishing is like the renowned industry gold standard, and nothing looks better, but they use 316L.
__________________
_______________________
Old Expat Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 04:23 AM   #14
East of Eden
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Posts: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by padi56 View Post
Rolex they became the first watch manufacturer to use 904L grade steel in their watches in 1985.But there is nothing magical about 904L SS today, it was mainly a brag factor and marketing by Rolex as they were once the only watch manufacturer using it. Today several other companies use 904L SS in watches XOSKELETON for one,but in the real world 904L steel was developed to be used in high salt/acid factories like for instance vinegar pickling factories factories that use acid products etc.And the only difference between 904L and 316L is simply this,the main difference between 316L over 904L it has slightly more Molybdenum(Mo)approx 2% more, approx 1-2% more Crome(Cr),Appox 1%-2% copper(Cu), and approx 10% more nickel and that's it all quite cheap commodities.And today far more 316L is sold than 904L, now if it was the other way round 904L would be cheaper than 316L.There are some disadvantages to 904L it will scratch and show scratches more easily than 316L.The only advantage is, its a bit more corrosion resistant, but in the real world with today's pampered watches its doubtful if any real advantage over the industry norm 316L.And the internet myth that 904L is harder than 316L its not true, its how the metal is finally tempered defines its overall hardness, so 316L can be harder than 904L.Most all high end brands like say Patek use the industry 316L, if there was any real advantage dont you think all the major brands would use it,marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.
There are even Rolex fakes that use 904L. I do think it looks nicer than 316L
East of Eden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 July 2023, 07:36 PM   #15
huba01
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Dubai
Posts: 1,449
Thanks padi, always nice to learn something new
huba01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 July 2023, 07:42 PM   #16
wm82
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: sweden
Posts: 131
The first model to use 904L was the 16520 reference.
It can be identified through the Hallmark for 904L that Rolex uses, its the Rolex logo in the little rugby ball shaped frame, with 3 dots scattered. Its inside the caseback, and on the clasp of bracelets.
wm82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 July 2023, 11:40 PM   #17
brandrea
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
brandrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Brian (TBone)
Location: canada
Watch: es make me smile
Posts: 78,106
Welcome to the forum. It’s 904L.
brandrea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 04:30 AM   #18
ChaseATX
"TRF" Member
 
ChaseATX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: US
Watch: 5270g
Posts: 506


It really does have shine. More shine? Hard to say.
ChaseATX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 07:12 AM   #19
rolexwc
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Home!
Posts: 36
Definitely Yes
rolexwc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 07:24 AM   #20
Rahul718
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NYC
Posts: 60
Thanks for everyone’s feedback.

I know the 116520 has long been discontinued but it surprises me that I can’t get any official Rolex documentation that has the specs for this watch. Even though it’s discontinued, having the actual product page active would still be helpful. I know Omega does this for it’s discontinued models and it’s very helpful.
Rahul718 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 July 2023, 05:43 PM   #21
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 53,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul718 View Post
Thanks for everyone’s feedback.

I know the 116520 has long been discontinued but it surprises me that I can’t get any official Rolex documentation that has the specs for this watch. Even though it’s discontinued, having the actual product page active would still be helpful. I know Omega does this for it’s discontinued models and it’s very helpful.
When the Daytona with the in-house made cal 4130 movement was first launched in 2000 it was the first Rolex watch to have a parachrome hairspring.But back then it was more of a grey colour than todays chemically changed blue ones.The Daytona has changed very little over production years, most were just minor cosmetic changes, great movement IMHO in the top 5 of all chrono movements ever made.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2 August 2023, 07:14 AM   #22
Roddypeepa
"TRF" Member
 
Roddypeepa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Real Name: Mark
Location: Southern England
Watch: DJ41 SubC SMP mast
Posts: 1,689
I think it feels great in the hand and I’m led
To believe it’s marginally less reactive in salt/ acids. Rolex watches are extremely “feely” when you hold and play with them - even the wife has noticed that.

However, whether it’s “better” is debatable. To me it loos different from 316 but that might be the products in the hand ie Omega vs Rolex.

I bet that I could not tell with two blocks of steel face to face in the ‘raw’ state.

To my limited experience “Oystersteel”scratches more easily than 316 but it’s hard when there are not two identical models available apart from their steel to test. Either seems to work.

“Oystersteel” is feely but is it the finishing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Roddypeepa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Wrist Aficionado

My Watch LLC

WatchesOff5th

DavidSW Watches

Takuya Watches

OCWatches


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.