Very sad news for a father

[macstiltskin]

Sergeant Paul McAleese 29 was killed in Afghanistan it was reported today. This is a tragedy for his family and I suspect for his father very very hard. His father was one of the SAS team who stormed the Iranian embassy in London in 1980. I am sure that he will be extremely proud of his "Boy", yet being an ex service man himself possibly wouldn't have wanted his lad to face the same risks as he had himself in service.
This is something I currently have playing on my mind. My Father was a Royal Marine (WWII) and so was I, my boy (15) is very keen to follow the same path and form a tradition. I myself having seen the realities of soldiering, do not want him to join up. I would rather he went to University like his sister is about to.
Quite a few lads have asked my advice over the past few years and I tell them straight, that the glamour of a smart uniform can cost a heavy price later. Although it is a wonderful life with great mates.
Not too sure where I'm going here.... How would you feel if your child wanted to join up?

[Mike B]

(If I had kids), and he/she wanted to join up, then that's thier personal preference. I was never in the service, but I am absolutely thankful for the men and women who put thier lives on the line every day overseas protecting our country.

[DARK_KNIGHT]

Originally Posted by macstiltskin

.... How would you feel if your child wanted to join up?

It would depend on what I feel is the needs of the country, had you asked this on September 12th, 2001, I would have wanted everyone in my family to join, even my dog. Today? I doubt it unless some foreign country decides to attack ALABAMA.

I have an 18 year old and he thinks it's all about glory.

[TheVTCGuy]

Mac, I am not a father so I can not relate to advice I'd give my child.. but I did serve 12 years (as an Officer) in the military.

There were good times, there were bad. I flew in the Gulf War in 91, and had other various "conflicts" during my career. I am proud of the service I did for my country, not just in being a Pilot, but knowing that I did what is important to me, my country, and our way of life. To the day I die, I will stand proud that I did my duty.

The Military also tought me... a LOT. It tought me discipline, adaptability, maintaining a presence of focus and mind under extreme conditons, the list goes on and on.

It (obviously) was dangerous. I lost friends, both in the war and other times, there is no doubt your child could become seriously injured, or worse.

I don't have a Son, but if I did, and he was interested in joining up, I'd support his decision. It is scary, it's not easy letting him venture in to a very dangerous environment like the Military, but there are risks with everything in life. At the end of the day, or his service, or when he is old and gray (like me), he can stand proud for what he did, and say: "I served"

Just my two cents....

[SLS]

My father served in Vietnam and was stationed at Khe Sanh during the TET offensive. I have asked him about the war and he has simply stated that he does not want talk about it, and that's just not like him. I can't imagine what he saw and what his life was like while serving, but it must have been horrific for him not to tell me. So while I completely understand and support one's drive to be patriotic, it most certainly comes at a cost, with the worst of it being death. So having never served, I would not dare to give you advice on what you should advise your son to do. Your post has given me some food for thought, as my son is only 10 now. As most parents do, I am sure that you will advise your son to make right decision given your insight of the situation.
Scott

[Jimbits76]

Originally Posted by macstiltskin

Sergeant Paul McAleese 29 was killed in Afghanistan it was reported today. This is a tragedy for his family and I suspect for his father very very hard. His father was one of the SAS team who stormed the Iranian embassy in London in 1980. I am sure that he will be extremely proud of his "Boy", yet being an ex service man himself possibly wouldn't have wanted his lad to face the same risks as he had himself in service.
This is something I currently have playing on my mind. My Father was a Royal Marine (WWII) and so was I, my boy (15) is very keen to follow the same path and form a tradition. I myself having seen the realities of soldiering, and do not want him to join up. I would rather he went to University like his sister is about to.
Quite a few lads have asked my advice over the past few years and I tell them straight, that the glamour of a smart uniform can cost a heavy price later. Although it is a wonderful life with great mates.
Not too sure where I'm going here.... How would you feel if your child wanted to join up?

Mac whatever path your son chooses....

Let me take this opportunity to say Thank you to both you and your father for the sacrifices and efforts made for the freedoms of us all.



Jim

[macstiltskin]

Thanks for the comments so far guys, I don't want to get too heavy on my own personal dilemma, I'm wondering how YOU would feel given this situation? Would you be in favour of your child joining up or anti?

[ratae1950]

Originally Posted by macstiltskin

Thanks for the comments so far guys, I don't want to get too heavy on my own personal dilemma, I'm wondering how YOU would feel given this situation? Would you be in favour of your child joining up or anti?

I have three sons and would be very stressed if they decided to join the military to fight in a conflict I thought bogus or unwinnable. There are many ways to serve society, including the millitary when there is a genuine threat, ie WWII.
Afghanistan does need to be 'controlled' but I am afraid that like the British in the 19th Century and the fairly brutal Soviets more recently, our forces have a hopeless task ahead of them. I have to say that Rory Stewart the British politician makes a lot of sense to me when talking about Afghanistan.
Best wishes with your son!


http://www.terraplexic.org/review/20...y-stewart.html

[DARK_KNIGHT]

I have a son that just turned 18 in July. He is dying to serve, but my worry is he thinks it's like in the movies. I worry about his maturity. Considering what little real information I have on what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, because you certainly cannot believe everything you read in the press, I would not stop my son from joining, but I would not encourage it either (i.e. "egg him on").

My stance would change immediately if the USA (US Soil) were directly attacked by anyone, then I would immediately take my son to the nearest recruiting station. Even I would leave my stethoscope in the office and off I go, probably @ 35 I would not be allowed into a uniform, but I would not need one (a uniform) to get my rifle and be on the lookout.

Conclusion: Your son is now an adult, don't stop him from doing what he must.

[macstiltskin]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. It has certainly got me thinking quite hard about my obligations to my son and his wishes. It's 23.00pm here in the UK and On that note I'm off to bed ..... Thinking of the parents that are currently going though what must be a very worrying and difficult time for them.

[andhedrew]

Originally Posted by DARK_KNIGHT

I have a son that just turned 18 in July. He is dying to serve, but my worry is he thinks it's like in the movies. I worry about his maturity. Considering what little real information I have on what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, because you certainly cannot believe everything you read in the press, I would not stop my son from joining, but I would not encourage it either (i.e. "egg him on").

If a young person feels a calling to the military then they should answer that call. I too was immature but felt a strong need to join straight out of highschool. The lessons I learned and the pride I feel for having done so have served as the cornerstones of my life ever since.

I have a number of young students (highschool and college) who work for me and so my career coaching with them is taken very seriously. I have students with bright careers ahead of them and I have students who are in desperate need of learning work ethic and personal responsibility. The hard workers are encouraged to continue schooling. The others I like to speak to about military service.

In the end, whether you've served your country or not, you will always have the knowledge of your position in the back of your mind. The military is not for everyone. There are many who join only to find out that it is not for them. But, I guarantee you, if your son has the calling and never answers it, then he will regret it for the rest of his life. I hear it all of the time from my 40 something friends and acquaintances who did not serve.

I have 3 children. If and when any of them decides that military service might be right for them then I will tell them what I know and allow them to make that decision on their own. This country was built on the sacrifice of other people's children. Who the hell am I to "protect" mine if they feel a need to serve? It's a slap in the face to those who have lost loved ones in all prior wars if you ask me.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by macstiltskin

Sergeant Paul McAleese 29 was killed in Afghanistan it was reported today. This is a tragedy for his family and I suspect for his father very very hard. His father was one of the SAS team who stormed the Iranian embassy in London in 1980. I am sure that he will be extremely proud of his "Boy", yet being an ex service man himself possibly wouldn't have wanted his lad to face the same risks as he had himself in service.
This is something I currently have playing on my mind. My Father was a Royal Marine (WWII) and so was I, my boy (15) is very keen to follow the same path and form a tradition. I myself having seen the realities of soldiering, do not want him to join up. I would rather he went to University like his sister is about to.
Quite a few lads have asked my advice over the past few years and I tell them straight, that the glamour of a smart uniform can cost a heavy price later. Although it is a wonderful life with great mates.
Not too sure where I'm going here.... How would you feel if your child wanted to join up?

Well, Mac.......I have to admire you and your son. Let the final decision be your son's, but you can be his mentor and guide.

Best - JJ

[Jimbits76]

Honestly I'd have to say I wouldn't want my boy joining.

I know it's selfish and I know it's fairly cowardly but the pain those parents must feel when finding out their child has died (in usually awful circumstances) in a foreign land must be unbearable.

Sorry to put a downer on things Mac, I'm just a big old wimp who wants no harm to come to his son!



J

[macstiltskin]

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

Honestly I'd have to say I wouldn't want my boy joining.

I know it's selfish and I know it's fairly cowardly but the pain those parents must feel when finding out their child has died (in usually awful circumstances) in a foreign land must be unbearable.

Sorry to put a downer on things Mac, I'm just a big old wimp who wants no harm to come to his son!



J

Jimbo, I want to hear your thoughts, and honest opinions are what I'm asking for!

[SLS]

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

Honestly I'd have to say I wouldn't want my boy joining.

I know it's selfish and I know it's fairly cowardly but the pain those parents must feel when finding out their child has died (in usually awful circumstances) in a foreign land must be unbearable.

Sorry to put a downer on things Mac, I'm just a big old wimp who wants no harm to come to his son!



J

x2

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

Honestly I'd have to say I wouldn't want my boy joining.

I know it's selfish and I know it's fairly cowardly but the pain those parents must feel when finding out their child has died (in usually awful circumstances) in a foreign land must be unbearable.

Sorry to put a downer on things Mac, I'm just a big old wimp who wants no harm to come to his son!



J

Jimbits you don't have to apoligize for anything, believe me, I have experienced something like that. Obviously not my child, but I have lost friends, in terrible circumstances... and I knew their parents.... it is the most horrible part of the human race, and I will never defend or belittle that horror. I completely understand the concern. It is definitely a risk... I just feel that everything these days is a risk.. and the benefits of Military service out-weigh those risks... just my opinion and my experience. But, I certainly understand yours as well....

[Jimbits76]

Claire and I watched some news footage/bbc interviews recently of the troops in Helmand.

It bought tears to our eyes, they were kids. They looked just like the kids who come into my office for work experience.

Everytime a mortar went off the soldiers jumped. When they spoke their hands shook (might have been nerves from being on tv, may have been the sound of gunfire).

These were boys and it breaks my heart to kinow they are being sent out there to fight this war.

I take my hat off to anybody who joins up and support them fully, I wish we could come up with more public funds to help save lives out there. I also offer my sincere thanks to the families, parents, wives and children of the guys who give up so much.

I don't know if it makes me less of a man but I know I couldn't have done it.

Mac, maybe by the time your son is ready to join up, the war effort and casualties may be in such a sorry state that he might just change his mind!

Jim

[Skullring]

I served in the Army and I am very grateful for the experiences that I had there. I have an 8 year old son and I would not encourage him to go into the military but I don't believe I would feel right to discourage him either. No one should have to live through losing a child I can't imagine anything more terrible.

[figbo]

You don't have to encourage your son to join,sometimes it runs in the family.Grandfather WW1,all my uncles WW2,father Corea and myself 'Nam and Panama.It was 1996 when my son came to me and told me he's going to join the US Marines,all I could do was was give him my blessing and off he went.
8 years later he got out,went to school and is now a mechanical engineer.
He did not see combat and for that,I'll be forever grateful.

[astcell]

If he has the fire in him to join and you hold him back, he will regret it big time when he is in his 40s. I see more people who wished they had joined when they could have.

As far as how safe it is, Chicago is more dangerous than Iraq. I was deployed 2005-2008 for 1000 days and loved it. There is inherent danger in any job, maybe this more so, but we are not lining up for the guillotine. Remember there are about 150,000 troops deployed from all countries. Hearing about one death or two cannot be compared to WWII where 50,000 troops could be lost in one day.

Understand that before he goes anywhere he will be well trained and armed. We don't get tossed to the lions. I have a nephew who wants to join but he complains he cannot because he is only 13. I assured him the country will still be here when he is ready.

It is the biological nature of women to nurture and men to fight. We are built for it. Maybe ask him to go to college ad become an officer, and in that time he may reconsider, or become more stoic in his decision.

[TheVTCGuy]

Well said Robert, I tried to put those sentiments in to words, about if it is in his spirt to join, holding him back would be a mistake, but you did it a LOT better then I could have. If it's a calling, I don't think any kind of withstraint is a positive thing. If it is just curiosity, then of course opinions are very helpful. I guess the hard part is deciding which one of these it is...

I tried to get back in after 911, but they said I was too old to be a pilot any more. I told them I'd fly a desk, but still... didn't get back in.

[Lion]

Mac, Thanx to you and all that have served their respective countries for keeping me and my world(family)safe. I do have a son who is 24 years old and would not like to see him join the military and go overseas to fight in the wars in the Middle East. But his life is his own and I would respect and support his decision if he chooses to join the military!!!

[BLSampson]

If no one's child served, we would all be living under tyranny. Respectfully submitted.

[unclesallie]

Originally Posted by BLSampson

If no one's child served, we would all be living under tyranny. Respectfully submitted.

It's quite true. My son is finishing up Med School and is a commissioned officer. He will eventually be deployed at least once, and maybe twice once he is on active duty. I worry about him being in a combat zone. I have a close friend who is a Colonel, U.S. Army. He was deployed to Bosnia and Iraq. When he was in Iraq a group of Doctors went for a ride within few days of US forces capturing Baghdad. Two doctors were killed by hostile fire directed at them from a bridge...now according to my friend it was foolish of them to have done that, but there's an example of a very sad ending. On the other hand, soldiers need to have Doctors ready to serve them as they engage in combat missions. It's a tough deal.

[AIKO]

Originally Posted by macstiltskin

Sergeant Paul McAleese 29 was killed in Afghanistan it was reported today. This is a tragedy for his family and I suspect for his father very very hard. His father was one of the SAS team who stormed the Iranian embassy in London in 1980. I am sure that he will be extremely proud of his "Boy", yet being an ex service man himself possibly wouldn't have wanted his lad to face the same risks as he had himself in service.
This is something I currently have playing on my mind. My Father was a Royal Marine (WWII) and so was I, my boy (15) is very keen to follow the same path and form a tradition. I myself having seen the realities of soldiering, do not want him to join up. I would rather he went to University like his sister is about to.
Quite a few lads have asked my advice over the past few years and I tell them straight, that the glamour of a smart uniform can cost a heavy price later. Although it is a wonderful life with great mates.
Not too sure where I'm going here.... How would you feel if your child wanted to join up?

To be honest, my thoughts have changed over the past several years. I would be very unhappy if my son were to join the armed forces given todays circumstances. I think serving your country in honorable but things are way off course these days. However I am proud and grateful to those who serve and sacrifice. I guess it is a bit unfair to pick the situation to serve in but that what I am saying.

[East Bay Rider]

I have a different perspective. I know that my son would like the training and the order of military life. That's kind of how he is so far, at 13. He has been studying martial arts since 5 years old and wrestles on his school wrestling team. My problem with it is that it's not fair. Any person could be killed or injured in a chemical attack or hidden bomb and never have a chance to fight back, or even know it was happening. War is not a contest of skill and any pathetic weakling terrorist can "beat" well trained soldiers. If these things could be settled in a ring with a winner and a loser using training and strength I'd support it more. At least the participants would be in control.

[JimSnyder]

Mac as a father of 6 (3 boys,3 girls) I can relate. My father served in Korea. Conflict will always be. Some were epic. Some seemed pointless (I am a product of the Vietnam era) When I was in 6th grade (1971) one day in math class my friends mom and the principal came and took him out of the class and in the hall they told him that his father who was a navy pilot had been shot down. I will never forget his cries. If one of my children choose a military path and God forbid anything happen to them, I would take comfort in the fact that they felt that what they were doing was important. So many have given themselves for all of us.

[daveathall]

I think a service in the armed forces is a wonderful thing, I have spent 37 years serving and still going strong, I too was like you Mac, not an easy decision, I advised my son against it, not even sure if it was the correct advice, he took it though.

My heart goes out to all mothers and fathers who have to endure the words "Another British soldier was killed in Helmund province today" whilst watching the news.

[macstiltskin]

Originally Posted by BLSampson

If no one's child served, we would all be living under tyranny. Re

My heart goes out to all mothers and fathers who have to endure the words "Another British soldier was killed in Helmund province today" whilst watching the news.

I would like to say thanks to all you who have replied to this thread, you all have put fair and valid views forward.

Bryan, I 100% understand what you are saying.

Dave, thirty seven years is some going! And earns my upmost respect

I've got time to consider carefully how best to advise my boy, and I'll be bearing in mind much of the above thoughts.
Cheers Guys

[Badfish179]

My son will be 18 on Halloween. The only reason he hasn't joined yet is because he needs my signature and I won't sign. I am not opposed to his service. We have a family tradition of service from the civil war on up at least one of us served. I will be very proud to see my son serve, however, it must be his signature on the contract, not mine.
I agree with astcell. It's not a thrilling prospect to see our sons in uniform, however, our parents felt the same way when we did it.