Sweet Interior Angles

[Ichiran]

Some like interior angles, some don't care, some dislike them. An interior angle doesn't improve the chronometry of a movement, nor make a movement more complicated. Greats like George Daniels was notoriously focused on a watch's mechanics as opposed to "artificial styling".

Yet I love interior angles. When I first started watch collecting, I bought watches with aesthetics that appealed to me - chiefly the dial, then the case. Over the years, I was drawn to watches with complications. Now, I begin to appreciate hand-finishing more, and one of the first things I look for during a new watch release is sharp interior angles in the movement. I appreciate the time and effort by artisans to make the anglage perfect. Below are some movements with beautifully carved interior angles that I enjoyed staring at. None is mine unfortunately. Please feel free to add those you like.

From top: RRCCII, RRCC, Krayon Anywhere, Grand Seiko Spring Drive 9R02, Bexei Dignitas Pure “Project XX”, Kari Voutilainen Observatoire, Philippe Dufour Simplicity, Romain Gauthier Logical One, Simon Brette Chronomètre Artisans and Greubel Forsey Double Tourbillon 30° Technique

[RRJ]

Fantastic pictures, I especially like the Greubel Forsey. Don't know what it is specifically, but their finishing as a whole just hits the right spot for me.

I think Philippe Narbel deserves a spot on your list as well - his Skel-1 boasts an incredible 211 interior angles, at least according to Revolution.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by RRJ

I think Philippe Narbel deserves a spot on your list as well - his Skel-1 boasts an incredible 211 interior angles, at least according to Revolution.

Absolutely. He has done a lot of work for the watch industry where finishing and interior angles are concerned. Below is the back of the Skel-1.

[enjoythemusic]

Awesome, like a modern Holy Trinity... only even better than that :)

[Pw92676]

Beautiful photos, thanks for sharing.

[WatchEater666]

I wouldn't buy a watch purely because of the # of internal angles, but it does bother me a lot when a brand clearly sidesteps doing them the way Patek does...

For higher end products, it comes across as lazy.

And in my opinion, anything time only above ~$20k - $30k should at least have some well done anglage.

[Michael1968]

Awesome looking movement. A lot of amazing craftsmanship inside

[noobs]

very nice, thanks for posting

[gm58]

Great post, been a lot of debate around interior angles lately when it comes to movement finishing. I wonder whether at some point, machines will be able to do finishing on this level with that sharp finish ending at a point vs simple curved, rounding off.

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by gm58

Great post, been a lot of debate around interior angles lately when it comes to movement finishing. I wonder whether at some point, machines will be able to do finishing on this level with that sharp finish ending at a point vs simple curved, rounding off.

Apparently, there are laser polishing techniques that can or will soon replicate everything. But the point is really the human connection with hand craftmanship.

I appreciate that Dufour and GF (and others, of course) are passing on their skills to a new generation so things aren't hidden and then lost.

P.S. Greubel Forsey is bringing out a watch which will have a new level of hand finishing. That's all I know about it, butnlooking forward to it.

[enjoythemusic]

Good point gm58. Another possibility is that China does as the USA did with pocket watch production back in the day. Of course the fugazi market does make very impressive basic Pateks, which kinda shows how easy their pieces are to produce. My point being you don't see that with Kari V, RR, MB&F, etc, perhaps because it takes true talent and effort.

[GB-man]

Beautiful shots. I’ve been vocal that it’s not the end all be all for me but much like another round I’m not likely to say no!

[Moondoggy]

I shamelessly are a movement snob and these are beautiful.

[unknown]

Parmigiani used to do it good 20 years ago.
Their Ionica 8-days is pretty nice

Not as good as the watches in the original post but for being a brand that makes a few K pieces per years it's definitely good













And Today Florent Lecomte makes exceptional watches, de creates the movement but to give it a perfect finishing he got help from Philippe Narbel.
And imo these are among the best I've EVER seen. Yes, imo better than most that cost 100-200 K









this is the front of the watch in case you don't know it

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by unknown

Parmigiani used to do it good 20 years ago.
Their Ionica 8-days is pretty nice

Not as good as the watches in the original post but for being a brand that makes a few K pieces per years it's definitely good

And Today Florent Lecomte makes exceptional watches, de creates the movement but to give it a perfect finishing he got help from Philippe Narbel.
And imo these are among the best I've EVER seen. Yes, imo better than most that cost 100-200K

Thanks for contributing! Always enjoy your posts and beautiful pics

[John Doyle]

Agreed these look nice although absolutely don't justify the price tag on some of those (regardless if it's hand finished).

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by John Doyle

Agreed these look nice although absolutely don't justify the price tag on some of those (regardless if it's hand finished).

That is when guys like Torsti Laine come into play.

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

That is when guys like Torsti Laine come into play.

The Laine V38 uses a Vaucher 5401 movement finished with interior angles. It may not be a Dufour, but all the hand finishing is there in technique and execution, just a little less. A+ to Laine!

[smalleq]

I wish I had some good macro shots, but my Armin Strom Tribute1 has 4 interior angles. The first two on the front white gold bridge and the second two on the backside stainless steel bridge.

All current AS watches have at least 4.

[Ichiran]

This is Vincent Deprez Tourbillon which I think has lovely interior angles too. Unfortunately they are all sold.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by smalleq

I wish I had some good macro shots, but my Armin Strom Tribute1 has 4 interior angles. The first two on the front white gold bridge and the second two on the backside stainless steel bridge.

All current AS watches have at least 4.

Armin is incredible value. I am surprised they aren't more popular. The new models are really well designed too.

I guess we are seeing way more Gravity Equal Force models pop up everywhere now.

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Armin is incredible value. I am surprised they aren't more popular. The new models are really well designed too.

I guess we are seeing way more Gravity Equal Force models pop up everywhere now.

I’m also surprised about them not being more popular. Excellent watches at a great price. I sadly don’t have one in my collection but it’s more due to a limitation of funds than anything else.

[991C4S]

This thread is excellent.

Originally Posted by smalleq

I wish I had some good macro shots, but my Armin Strom Tribute1 has 4 interior angles. The first two on the front white gold bridge and the second two on the backside stainless steel bridge.

All current AS watches have at least 4.

Great shots neighbor. I've tried this piece on a few times. It is so well made. I'd love to own a Armin soon.

[Russell996]

Lange 1 Tourbillon Handwerkskunst

A special Lange featuring a movement with dozens of interior angles and 3 hand engraved bridges.

Not to forget a mesmerising dial combing black enamel and black polishing for a truly amazing show as it is turned in the light.

https://youtu.be/cfKbiMj0uJE?si=1VGmlUKUQJNqtiwa

[Ichiran]

Sharing some of my favourite macro shots of the 1967. In the first pic the light reflects off the carving of a spoke of the golden gear wheel.. there are sharp carvings on the bridges and dead-beat mechanism. The shock is hidden underneath the balance cap jewel.

[Ichiran]

Rémy Cools Tourbillon Souscription. These carvings are sexy.

[Ichiran]

Origine. Curvy.

[Ichiran]

This is art.

[kunlun]

Okay, it's time to trot out my very silly critique of being a fan of internal angles (keep in mind, I am also a fan). This is meant to stir thinking, but in a lighthearted way.

Ready?

Here goes: People who get obsessed with internal angles are like guys who get obsessed with women's underwear!

Why?

Internal angles are primarily a signifier, a stand-in for what we really want, which is genuine hand finishing and craftsmanship. Women's underwear is a stand-in for the women themselves. In either case, the signifier may be beautiful on its own. But it's better to be reminded of what it is that is the antecedent, primary value, be it the work of a craftswoman, or the affection of the craftswoman herself.

Today's silly post brought to you by my memory of reading an obituary of an English philosopher of ethics who also had a ladies' underwear fetish.

Keep in mind, with situations like Patek's abandonment of hand finishing (and the Geneva Seal, which requires it) in its lower and mid-tier models, a lack of internal angles is a very useful sign compared to, say, an entry level Breguet 5177, which keeps two internal angles as a sign for those who know. In other cases, it's not so useful! Consider the whole finishing and then consider finishing in the context of the whole watch!

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Here goes: People who get obsessed with internal angles are like guys who get obsessed with women's underwear!

Hmmmm, yes there is a difference between Haines cotton 'daily beaters' and, dare i say, something special for the ladies made from handcrafted lace and fine silk. Sure the daily beater works, but may not be as alluring or feel special. Furthermore, and i asked my wife, that something special also brings more happiness.

Nothing wrong with my $300 Timex that looks a lot like a Patek Philippe (dial and style). Very accurate movement too, plus the Timex has a higher waterproof rating than ALL Patek timepieces. Why pay more?

But when you step up something like a RR, MB&F, etc, we know the reality of what is possible versus what is just passable back in the 1960s when the Marketing Campaign of Trinity somehow became folklure.

Keep in mind, with situations like Patek's abandonment of hand finishing (and the Geneva Seal, which requires it) in its lower and mid-tier models, a lack of internal angles is a very useful sign compared to, say, an entry level Breguet 5177, which keeps two internal angles as a sign for those who know. In other cases, it's not so useful! Consider the whole finishing and then consider finishing in the context of the whole watch!

Agree, it is relative to the overall design and if higher-level true handcrafting is chosen over more machines. Obvious to anyone, let us not call certain brands as the best (Trinity or Horsemen). The 1960s is long gone, long live higher possibilities we have available today