Advice on secondary market AP purchase

[abrosz]

Hi all.

I don't post here much, but I figured this community would be more helpful than the AP boutique points of sale and APNA. I have inquired with AP and its boutiques for 5 years now about several pieces of interest. I have repeatedly been steered toward Code 11:59s, Offshores, Ladies pieces, and a Remaster 01 that I haven't asked about.

Most recently, I had an hour-long conversation with the manager at the NYC flagship boutique. She provided me with excuse after excuse for why AP couldn't sell me a piece. What really grabbed my attention was the fact that AP own boutiques quite literally have no idea what they'll be sent or when. She has no insight into what the boutique will be allocated or when it will arrive. She is unable to provide any sort of time frame on when I might be able to buy anything on my interest list (Royal Oaks and a Code 11). She also flat out informed me that new clients aren't getting allocations right now due to demand. I refuse to wait another 4-5 years for a simple time/date piece, particularly if that first piece has to be a Code 11:59 that can be purchased at less than retail.

Give 4-5 years of the same song and dance, I've decided to go secondary market. Question to the forum is several fold:

1) Any references on reputable secondary market dealers or where to start with this purchase?
2) Any advice on determining a fair market value for various pieces? Is there a resource to help determine this?
3) Chrono24 has numerous references, but most seem to be market up quite a bit higher than I would expect. Any guesses as to how much over fair market value the markups are?
4) I have a 7" wrist. Anyone have a strong guide on how the 39mm RO will wear compared to a 41mm RO? I was able to see and try on a 41, but not the 39.

Any useful advice on how to approach this when the time comes would be appreciated.

[PBJ1925]

1) Our trusted sellers here I.E.- Nashville Watch, or Takuya would be a good place to start
3) Reason why Chrono24 is generally 5-10% over market is because of the fees the seller will incur. Remember it's asking the price, not the final sale price on top of the mark up to cover their fees. Most domestic sellers may have their own store off Chrono24, whom you can contact directly if you do a search. They'll typically price it lower since they won't incur a fee since the transaction could happen off platform.
4) Both will fit fine with a 7" wrist but you'll want to try on to gauge which you prefer.

Good luck with your search.

[Arcotango]

Originally Posted by PBJ1925

1) Our trusted sellers here I.E.- Nashville Watch, or Takuya would be a good place to start

Slightly O/T: does Nashville Watch still list here? I thought they posted under Au_911tt, but I haven't seen any new posts in their Boutique forum since January...

[musashinohaha]

Originally Posted by Arcotango

Slightly O/T: does Nashville Watch still list here? I thought they posted under Au_911tt, but I haven't seen any new posts in their Boutique forum since January...

I just purchased Patek's Nautilus from Nashville Watch, it arrived the very next day via Fedex, everything was perfect. I highly recommend this business.

[Jake Sully]

Went and seen my favorite AD yesterday. (DSW) Came home with this, no wait involved. Life is good....................

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by Jake Sully

Went and seen my favorite AD yesterday. (DSW) Came home with this, no wait involved. Life is good....................

What does "AD" mean in this context?

Aftermarket Dealer?

We tend to use "AD" as "Authorized Dealer."

[spellmanski]

Originally Posted by Jake Sully

Went and seen my favorite AD yesterday. (DSW) Came home with this, no wait involved. Life is good....................

Amazing - nice work. What made you go for the grey vs the black dial DSW has?

[dauster]

Originally Posted by PBJ1925

1) Our trusted sellers here I.E.- Nashville Watch, or Takuya would be a good place to start
3) Reason why Chrono24 is generally 5-10% over market is because of the fees the seller will incur. Remember it's asking the price, not the final sale price on top of the mark up to cover their fees. Most domestic sellers may have their own store off Chrono24, whom you can contact directly if you do a search. They'll typically price it lower since they won't incur a fee since the transaction could happen off platform.
4) Both will fit fine with a 7" wrist but you'll want to try on to gauge which you prefer.

Good luck with your search.

Pretty attractive about 1/3 of a new jumbo that takuya just posted

https://nashvillewatch.com/product/a...-15300st-2008/


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[chaucer]

Which are the pieces you want? If you’re asking for a 39mm royal oak you’ll always be waiting. If you want a 41mm green dial, go gray. What Code are you asking for that you can’t get? To answer your question, I’ve bought from Takuya and DavidSW, both easy and good transactions.

[abrosz]

Originally Posted by chaucer

Which are the pieces you want? If you’re asking for a 39mm royal oak you’ll always be waiting. If you want a 41mm green dial, go gray. What Code are you asking for that you can’t get? To answer your question, I’ve bought from Takuya and DavidSW, both easy and good transactions.

Looking at:

1) Looking at a Royal Oak in rose gold, black dial, black leather strap 41 mm. Chrono or non-chrono doesn't matter so much. Saw the chrono at David SW in Orlando about a year ago. Beautiful piece.

2) Either a 41 mm or 39 mm RO in steel, blue dial. Don't need both a 41mm and a 39mm. Have seen the 41mm in gray, but never the blue. Never laid eyes on the 39mm so can't compare how the two wear. If you had to pick just one, which would it be?

3) The Code is the rose gold case with the black ceramic, black "linen" chronograph, dial. The site won't let me post the reference.

[chaucer]

Originally Posted by abrosz

Looking at:

1) Looking at a Royal Oak in rose gold, black dial, black leather strap 41 mm. Chrono or non-chrono doesn't matter so much. Saw the chrono at David SW in Orlando about a year ago. Beautiful piece.

2) Either a 41 mm or 39 mm RO in steel, blue dial. Don't need both a 41mm and a 39mm. Have seen the 41mm in gray, but never the blue. Never laid eyes on the 39mm so can't compare how the two wear. If you had to pick just one, which would it be?

3) The Code is the rose gold case with the black ceramic, black "linen" chronograph, dial. The site won't let me post the reference.

Are you leading with your interest in a precious metal Code chrono? I would imagine that’s obtainable at the boutique and would potentially open doors for the royal oaks you want.

[abrosz]

Originally Posted by chaucer

Are you leading with your interest in a precious metal Code chrono? I would imagine that’s obtainable at the boutique and would potentially open doors for the royal oaks you want.

After 4 years of inquiring with boutiques and my recent conversation with the NYC boutique manager, I’m done with AP. Straight from boutique manager’s mouth, purchasing a Code doesn’t guarantee allocation of a Royal Oak; it’s not quid quo pro. No sense paying Code retail when secondary market prices on the Code are better and there’s no commitment at a RO allocation or timing. Went down this road with a Patek dealer recently. It did not go well. Depending on the RO, the discount on the Code will offset the premium on the RO. AP is never going to not sell them and there will always be secondary market supply. There will always be somebody with a higher spend history that will take priority. I can wait to pull the trigger on the RO.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by abrosz

After 4 years of inquiring with boutiques and my recent conversation with the NYC boutique manager, I’m done with AP. Straight from boutique manager’s mouth, purchasing a Code doesn’t guarantee allocation of a Royal Oak; it’s not quid quo pro. No sense paying Code retail when secondary market prices on the Code are better and there’s no commitment at a RO allocation or timing. Went down this road with a Patek dealer recently. It did not go well. Depending on the RO, the discount on the Code will offset the premium on the RO. AP is never going to not sell them and there will always be secondary market supply. There will always be somebody with a higher spend history that will take priority. I can wait to pull the trigger on the RO.

I'm not sure your boutique manager is being straight with you. From my experience, they do have some visibility on pieces before they arrive. Not as in for the entire year, but within a month or so.

They will never give you any commitment on if or when they will get you an allocation for what you're looking for. Not even for high spend clients. Buying a Code or RO doesn't guarantee an RO allocation, but sure does put you in the mix as you are officially a paying client now. Whether we agree with this business model or not? I'm sure most will not agree with it.

I can't imagine that a PM Code Chrono would be that difficult for a new client. If you are leading with that, I don't see how it wouldn't be possible. If you're leading the conversation with a 41 RO, maybe a different story and thus the stand offish response. A 39 Jumbo is HIGHLY unlikely as a first piece anyways. That will likely be a non starter.

As far as competing against higher spend customers go, I guess we need to define higher spend first. From what I've seen, higher spend clients as in the hundreds of thousands or more category aren't asking for 3 hander and chrono RO's for the most part. They are not who you're really competing against for those allocations. The clients who have maybe already purchased a Code and or ROO are the ones you would be competing against for allocation.

As others have already said, no need to go through the boutique if you are not planning on collecting a variety of AP's including higher complicated pieces, especially when the secondary market prices continue to decline.

I do like your reasoning on buying the Code at a discount via grey that would offset the premium you would pay for a 41RO in the grey market. Hope to see some incoming pics soon.

[abrosz]

I’d be happy with a 15500 or 15510 in blue, a 15500 or 15510 in rose gold/black on leather, or a Code chrono in rose gold and black.

[ButtButt]

The rose gold Code chrono should be very doable as a first watch.

[ikincooper]

On points 2) and 3), as a very rough guide most dealers will want to make at least a 10% margin.

Last I checked, Chrono24 charged a 6.5% fee to list a watch for sale so if conducting a private purchase take the cheapest chrono 24 price, multiple it by 0.935 to remove selling fees, then multiple by 0.9 to remove the 10% margin and that’s roughly what a dealership might offer to a private seller.

Not precise maths, but hopefully it can help act as a guide


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[srvrf]

Since your closest boutiques are Aspen and Chicago, neither are likely to be convenient. I've had great experiences with Chicago and have purchased a ROO and 38mm ROC in 2023. I've since trimmed my wish list to harder to get watches (blue RO, Starwheel primarily) so I may or may not get a call this year and that's okay. The relationship is great and I'm in this for the long haul.

In the OPs case, I agree with buying on the secondary market. Two out of the three watches listed should be at or under MSRP and the other will likely have at least some premium. But then the OP can choose whatever watch he likes most and the timing of purchases. I was offered a steel Code chronograph (that I did like) shortly after my ROC purchase. But I told my SA that the timing just wasn't right (would have been a third AP purchase within 6 months).

[mikef82]

Are we expecting for the watch market to go down even more? Been looking at a few time pieces as well.

[Audevache]

Originally Posted by mikef82

Are we expecting for the watch market to go down even more? Been looking at a few time pieces as well.

Watchcharts has some very early signals of stabilisation for AP prices. Hard to say how representative these numbers truly are. I don't think anybody has a crystal ball here.

https://watchcharts.com/watches/bran...udemars+piguet

Note that that chart only tracks the top 30 models.