~$100k Budget for an Independent…What Would You Recommend?

[bioyuki]

If you hypothetically had a ~$100k USD for a first dip into the world of independents, what would you recommend?

I’m more familiar with FPJ and MB&F’s collections…while I love the Chronometre Bleu, I just can’t bring myself to pay the grey market prices for it. On the MB&F side I’m considering the LM Split Escapement Evo. At this price point, what are some other independents I should be considering? Current collection comprises of Rolex, Tudor, Omega, Grand Seiko, Patek, etc.

[dmottley]

There are lots of options. Obtainable ones that I like are the Romain Gauthier Logical One, Voutilainen Vingt-8, Struthers Kingsley, and Gronefeld 1941 Remontoire.

[bioyuki]

Originally Posted by dmottley

There are lots of options. Obtainable ones that I like are the Romain Gauthier Logical One, Voutilainen Vingt-8, Struthers Kingsley, and Gronefeld 1941 Remontoire.

Huge fan of Kari Voutilainen’s work. Haven’t seen the Vingt-8 sub-$100k though?

[APhound]

I picked up my first journe and think it’s really cool. I think I paid around 68 fyi
It’s hard to really know the market because they really range in price even for the same model..


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[arolexguy]

Originally Posted by APhound

I picked up my first journe and think it’s really cool. I think I paid around 68 fyi
It’s hard to really know the market because they really range in price even for the same model..


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That is a beautiful piece


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[FrugalGreubel]

Oooooh I love threads like this.

Are you only looking at new/retail or are ok buying pre-owned? Also are you willing to wait a while or is this a watch you want to own as soon as possible?

[bioyuki]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

Oooooh I love threads like this.

Are you only looking at new/retail or are ok buying pre-owned? Also are you willing to wait a while or is this a watch you want to own as soon as possible?

Prefer new/retail but willing to buy pre-owned as long as the condition is Mint/Excellent. Willing to wait up to a year, but not beyond that.

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by bioyuki

Prefer new/retail but willing to buy pre-owned as long as the condition is Mint/Excellent. Willing to wait up to a year, but not beyond that.

The year wait is gonna make it pretty tough for most options at new/retail.

The LM Split Escapement EVO is all kinds of badass. I sadly haven’t tried one on in person but I hope to get an MB&F of my own one day so I’m pretty fanatical about reading up whatever the brand releases. If that’s your first instinct watch wise I’d definitely tell you to lean towards it.

If the sportier/less dressy look is what you’re after I’d maybe think about either a Urwerk-110V or a Romain Gauthier C.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

The year wait is gonna make it pretty tough for most options at new/retail.

The LM Split Escapement EVO is all kinds of badass. I sadly haven’t tried one on in person but I hope to get an MB&F of my own one day so I’m pretty fanatical about reading up whatever the brand releases. If that’s your first instinct watch wise I’d definitely tell you to lean towards it.

If the sportier/less dressy look is what you’re after I’d maybe think about either a Urwerk-110V or a Romain Gauthier C.

Urwerk UR100s are under $100k new and the wait is under one year. MB&F LM101 should also be a good choice.

If you can wait, go for a Voutilainen or Simon Brett. KV is now 5+ years wait which is a little crazy. SB can be a 2025/2026 but hard to get an allocation.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by bioyuki

IOn the MB&F side I’m considering the LM Split Escapement Evo.

Don't think, do.

Look fwd to wrist pics.

Kari V is also a VERY fine choice.

[dmottley]

This would be a bit over the budget, but no wait. They might negotiate a little.

https://www.acollectedman.com/produc...ition-titanium


I've thought about the MB&F, but 44mm X 17.5mm is just too large for me. Definitely try it on before you buy.

[GB-man]

I’d consider a journe CTS2

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I’d consider a journe CTS2

Why recommending CTS when you have a CMS?

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Why recommending CTS when you have a CMS?

Regrets lol

CTS just feels more journe to me. At the time I ordered the split just seemed more practical with a date and split. Also so well balanced visually. As I got more into FPJ I appreciate the journeness of the CTS.

Maybe with this new lauded Japanese chrono the split will be more thought of as a journe classic design.

[ButtButt]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Regrets lol

CTS just feels more journe to me. At the time I ordered the split just seemed more practical with a date and split. Also so well balanced visually. As I got more into FPJ I appreciate the journeness of the CTS.

Maybe with this new lauded Japanese chrono the split will be more thought of as a journe classic design.

Noooo don't say that lol... I'm really starting to like the CMS. The CTS looks a bit too crowded to my eyes with the 3 subdials.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by ButtButt

Noooo don't say that lol... I'm really starting to like the CMS. The CTS looks a bit too crowded to my eyes with the 3 subdials.

Yeah that’s how I felt. Might just be a grass is greener thing. I actually prefer my ARS2 as crazy as that sounds.

[John Doyle]

I would go with one of the special Rolex models (PM with diamonds or something, off catalogue) or a Patek 5180 or perp calendar chrono

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by John Doyle

I would go with one of the special Rolex models (PM with diamonds or something, off catalogue) or a Patek 5180 or perp calendar chrono

Literally the opposite of an independent

[ChetBaker]

If you want to spend 100k on a single watch I'd go for the best finishing you can get at that price point. That rules out anything from FPJ, Moser, Urwerk, etc. Laurent Ferrier has compelling finishing at 30-50k, but not necessarily at 100k. Same for Gronefeld. As you dont want to wait this rules out many if not all of the new breed indies that are popular around these parts (Brette, Petermann Bedat etc). So i'm leaning Gauthier, Voutilainen. Now, if you were open to buying 2 instead of 1 watch, you could perhaps get both an MB&F LM101 AND a LF Origin. That's not too shabby either...

[unsprung]

Depends on
1. you want one now without waiting time or you are willing to place an order and wait
2. you want a new one or are willing to go second hand
3. Are dress watches ok for you?

Going for a used more dressy watch: If you find youself a nice used Grönefeld Remontoire below 100k, that would be my choice
Going for a new more dressy watch with waiting time: probably a Berneron or Moritz Grossmann Hamatic
Going for a mid priced sports watch, leaving budget for one more watch a Czapek Antarctique
Going for a new or used higher priced sports watch a Romain Gauthier or FPJ Linesport

No matter what, I‘d probably try to buy a hand wound or microrotor watch. Why buy an expensive independent, if a rotor blocks the view on the movement?

[WatchEater666]

I would start by ranking what factors are the most important to you in a watch.

For me...openworked aesthetic, unique engineering aspect, and excellent finishing are all important. I don't care much for history or any of that. It's nice when it's there but my main concern is the quality of the final product.

With the above in mind, I ordered a Voutilainen Inverse, but the wait is quite long, I still have ~4 years left. I figure it will make a nice birthday present in a few years LOL :)

The other watch I ordered as well that was less than $100k was a customized Armin Strom Mirrored Force. It is openworked, has a unique resonance complication that is also verified by a 3p scientific party, and good finishing. Not god tier finishing, but definitely a cut above what you'd find on most Pateks etc and I love that I was able to customize the watch extensively. The guys there are AWESOME and total nerds. My friend and I actually got semi-matching customized watches lol. This brand might be worth looking at for you as well. The Gravity Equal Force for example is nowhere near $100k, but offers very very good bang for buck and is a more affordable way to get into independents. It has a proprietary movement, loads of customization available, and amazing finishing at the price point. Can find them used too.

The other watch in this price range I love is the Logical 1 by Romain Gauthier. Have experienced it in person a few times and am always blown away. It's a seriously beautiful movement in-person. It looks so aggressive, yet timeless somehow.

The other watch I absolutely love in this price range is the B&F perpetual calendar, my friend picked one up at an auction for around 120 recently but I'm guessing they'll keep dropping to be closer to ~100. Have also played with this in-person and the density of it is super cool.

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

The other watch in this price range I love is the Logical 1 by Romain Gauthier. Have experienced it in person a few times and am always blown away. It's a seriously beautiful movement in-person. It looks so aggressive, yet timeless somehow.

The only real issue I have with the RG Logical One is the size. If it was somehow smaller which I know isn’t possible I would’ve bought one myself. But if he has the wrist for it I agree that’s a great recommendation.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

The only real issue I have with the RG Logical One is the size. If it was somehow smaller which I know isn’t possible I would’ve bought one myself. But if he has the wrist for it I agree that’s a great recommendation.

Yeah most of the interesting watches are larger. I will say it doesn’t wear too big due to the lug design.

[llngoc]

The other option will be the FPJ Chronometre Optium. I never quite care for it until I read articles on what went into the designs just for the pursue of chronometric performance. Just the self start natural escapement is worth the ticket of admission. There will be a wait but definitely a true horological accomplishment.

[vliberman]

MB&F LM 101 (satisfies pretty much every horological aspect)
Urwerk 105 any variant
FPJ CS (attainable secondary, unless u have a special pull many years wait time)
Laurent Ferrier Sport Auto if u care on integrated bracelet sports watch, would get secondary as trades below msrp

[vitalsigns]

I'd probably go with a KV (preowned) or Gronefeld (just the Principia)...time only. I'd not feel the need to meet the full $100K budget.

Of the Journes, The Chrono Optimum would be my choice.

The Journe CB is just not worth it at the after-market price IMO.

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

I'd probably go with a KV (preowned) or Gronefeld (just the Principia)...time only. I'd not feel the need to meet the full $100K budget.

Of the Journes, The Chrono Optimum would be my choice.

The Journe CB is just not worth it at the after-market price IMO.

Which KV can one get at $100K? Even Vingt-8 goes for $120k the way i see it..

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Which KV can one get at $100K? Even Vingt-8 goes for $120k the way i see it..

Don't know, but I thought they are at or below $100K. If not, then obviously have to remove it from the list, and that's unfortunate.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

Don't know, but I thought they are at or below $100K. If not, then obviously have to remove it from the list, and that's unfortunate.

Pretty sure all are over 100k second hand and new has a huge wait.

[GB-man]

If chronometre optimums were 100k I’d have one. Secondary 160+ and retail idk but probably 120+ and unobtainable without 5+ years of shitty canapés and arse kissing on Mercer by time which retail will have caught up.