GRØNE Manueel One

[cal14]

Who ordered one today?

They really didn’t compromise on the aesthetics!

[GB-man]

Hard for me to get excited about this one. Let us know your thoughts when it arrives?

[Enzo954]

It's nice looking but a little pricey for what it is IMO. What's the point of having a decorated movement with an enclosed case back? Lose the decoration and bring the price down more as far as I'm concerned. It will probably sell out quickly based on the people behind it.

[77T]

It's a little more than an hour since the pre-order time of 3pm in the Netherlands opened.

The website has this reminder:



The seller would need to replace the watch especially in this case where production will be over subscribed perhaps.

Just sharing in the spirit of communication.


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[unsprung]

I passed on this release. There‘s just nothing I find special about it.

[MattyL147]

Eh.

[FrugalGreubel]

I am honestly very confused by this release. It’s seems like a perfectly fine watch but I don’t think Grönefeld has enough enthusiasm to justify an entry level spinoff. I’m really curious why they went this route.

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

I am honestly very confused by this release. It’s seems like a perfectly fine watch but I don’t think Grönefeld has enough enthusiasm to justify an entry level spinoff. I’m really curious why they went this route.

MB&F style

they have to, to keep the company going.
these spin off are the cash cows

[unknown]

nope not for me.

I like their Gronefeld watches but these cheap things are in fact way too expensive for what you get.

Like these from Kurono Tokyo
Again, his real high end pieces are top but Kurono is overpriced

If you want to spend 3-4 K go get yourself a Tudor, in that case you get a lot of watch for your money and not something that only gets attention cause it's name is associated with a top watchmaker

[MILGAUSS88]

It's not for me, but I disagree with most of the comments.

I think there are plenty of people willing to pay 2,150 euro to get the Gronefeld aesthetic.
Don't have the same worries that you would wearing a $40k watch either. So, practical for more occasions.

[WatchEater666]

The design of the dial is not for me.

[bioyuki]

I love the concept, but passed on the actual watch. The faux tremblage just didn't work for me. I'm guessing a lot of the buyers will be current Grönefeld collectors vs MAD editions which are more for aspirational buyers of MB&F?

[Yobrooks]

I have a principia 1941, love it, and I jumped in on this release as soon as it opened up. Going to be a great daily/beater with much less concerns with fine scratches, and still with that Gronefeld touch, etc. They Sold out in 2 1/2 hours !! ... Averaged 2 watches sold per minute !

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[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by Yobrooks

I have a principia 1941, love it, and I jumped in on this release as soon as it opened up. Going to be a great daily/beater with much less concerns with fine scratches, and still with that Gronefeld touch, etc. They Sold out in 2 1/2 hours !! ... Averaged 2 watches sold per minute !

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Please post your thoughts when you get it.

[Yobrooks]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

Please post your thoughts when you get it.

Will do, for sure.

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[ChetBaker]

Really dislike it when brands do this. When VC and AP released entry level pieces with outsourced movements they got a lot of flack, and rightly so. This, similar to the MB&F fidget spinner, screams cheap moneygrab and just dilutes the brand these watchmakers carefully built over the years. A shame.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

Really dislike it when brands do this. When VC and AP released entry level pieces with outsourced movements they got a lot of flack, and rightly so. This, similar to the MB&F fidget spinner, screams cheap moneygrab and just dilutes the brand these watchmakers carefully built over the years. A shame.

What about Tudor?

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

Really dislike it when brands do this. When VC and AP released entry level pieces with outsourced movements they got a lot of flack, and rightly so. This, similar to the MB&F fidget spinner, screams cheap moneygrab and just dilutes the brand these watchmakers carefully built over the years. A shame.

I have mixed feelings. I have a MAD 1 and am very happy with it. It’s a fun watch and I don’t get super paranoid about something happening to it. I really want an MB&F but it’s gonna be a while until I can probably get one. I feel like the MAD series falls into that sweet spot where it has the interest of many different types of watch fans. This just feels different to me. The design language of Grönefeld watches just seems like an odd choice for this. I don’t hate the Grøne Manueel One. I just have no interest in it which is weird.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

I have mixed feelings. I have a MAD 1 and am very happy with it. It’s a fun watch and I don’t get super paranoid about something happening to it. I really want an MB&F but it’s gonna be a while until I can probably get one. I feel like the MAD series falls into that sweet spot where it has the interest of many different types of watch fans. This just feels different to me. The design language of Grönefeld watches just seems like an odd choice for this. I don’t hate the Grøne Manueel One. I just have no interest in it which is weird.

I feel like the main selling point of the Principia is the quality of execution more than the design or engineering.

With MB&F, it's a mix of all of those. With the mad1, I think it's a creative and fun way to make the brand more accessible.

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I feel like the main selling point of the Principia is the quality of execution more than the design or engineering.

With MB&F, it's a mix of all of those. With the mad1, I think it's a creative and fun way to make the brand more accessible.

Very well said.

[GSwagGB]

I ordered one so guess I’ll be one of the guinea pigs. I liked the looks and really do not have a dedicated dress watch and thought this could pass. I can tell the in person presentation will Either make or break it. Was a little
Difficult to get a read with pics alone but I took the chance. I also like it was their first model of this sub brand.

[charger_vital]

I disagree with several of these posts. This watch is similar to so many watches posted on here with rave reviews which come at 15x the price. Not sure why this one is “cheaply made” or “too expensive for what it is.” Generic movements are not offensive. Unless a watchmaker has some sort of important innovation with the movement (most don’t) or a great movement architecture (most don’t) making an in-house movement that does the same thing as a generic one is not more valuable… and probably not as sturdy. My two cents.

Congrats to those of you who like it and got it.


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[ChetBaker]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

I disagree with several of these posts. This watch is similar to so many watches posted on here with rave reviews which come at 15x the price. Not sure why this one is “cheaply made” or “too expensive for what it is.” Generic movements are not offensive.

There are literally zero watches with Sellita movements that cost 30k and that receive rave reviews. Zero. You pay for what you get. You pay 2k, you get a watch worth 2k, if that. If I wanted to spend 2k on a watch I'd much prefer a Studio Underdog or something else that has real soul because that is what the makers really want to make. Not a watch a watchmaker churns out to get by or to cash in. Moves like this don't bode well for the independent future of the brand and I think it's a shame.

[Ichiran]

Come on, there is still no image of the watch.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

There are literally zero watches with Sellita movements that cost 30k and that receive rave reviews. Zero. You pay for what you get. You pay 2k, you get a watch worth 2k, if that. If I wanted to spend 2k on a watch I'd much prefer a Studio Underdog or something else that has real soul because that is what the makers really want to make. Not a watch a watchmaker churns out to get by or to cash in. Moves like this don't bode well for the independent future of the brand and I think it's a shame.

All watchmakers make their watches to cash in for money. And Im not aware of anyone forcing these guys into making stuff they don’t really want to make… unless you know something I don’t.

Also why would you think this is a bad move when The Grone and The Mad (multiple iterations over a few years now) sell out so quickly; and, at least for the Mad, have retained their value and desirability. Sounds more like a great move. I’d also reference Rolex and Tudor as an example showing why this is a great move if you’re worried about the long term effect on the prestige of a brand when it moves downmarket.

The only other thing I’d say is Sellita has made fine movements for a long time and has supplied those movements to a number of prestigious watchmakers. As I mentioned in my original post, if a watchmaker makes a movement that does the same thing and doesn’t show an new iconic architecture or improve the innovation, it makes it no more worthy than a Sellita… and probably less worthy. Whether the watches actually use a Sellita or not is irrelevant to the topic.


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[ChetBaker]

It's a little naive to think that some watchmakers cannot be forced to make watches they didn't initially set out to make, simply because of market forces. MB&F and Gronefeld are indies that historically focused exclusively at the very top end of the market. It was never the plan to produce Sellita or other outsourced low-end watches. But now they do - to keep their heads above water or to improve profits/margins in anticipation of an investor coming in. Time will tell.

Simply because there's short-term demand for something doesn't mean it can't be a bad move long-term or that others can't like it. To me it devalues the brand and it will hurt secondary market prices. Rolex and Tudor are incomparable for a multitude of reasons (price points, market positioning, strategy behind the secondary brand).

Finally - I'm not disputing Sellita makes solid movements. I have no personal experience with them as it is not what I am looking for in my collection. If, taken to the extreme, your point is that a Rexhepi or Voutilainen time only movement is less worthy than a Sellita, I don't think you will find many folks around here that agree with you.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

It's a little naive to think that some watchmakers cannot be forced to make watches they didn't initially set out to make, simply because of market forces. MB&F and Gronefeld are indies that historically focused exclusively at the very top end of the market. It was never the plan to produce Sellita powered watches. But now they do - to keep their heads above water or to improve profits/margins in anticipation of an investor coming in. Time will tell.

Simply because there's short-term demand for something doesn't mean it can't be a bad move long-term or that others can't like it. To me it devalues the brand and it will hurt secondary market prices. Rolex and Tudor are incomparable for a multitude of reasons (price points, market positioning, strategy behind the secondary brand).

Finally - I'm not disputing Sellita makes solid movements. I have no personal experience with them as it is not what I am looking for in my collection. If, taken to the extreme, your point is that a Rexhepi or Voutilainen time only movement is less worthy than a Sellita, I don't think you will find many folks around here that agree with you.

They have a choice to make watches or not. They choose to do it. Nothing forces them. Making less expensive watches helps cash flow what’s wrong with that? You can’t assume they hate doing it because it’s less expensive. Take a look at some of Max B’s interviews about making the Mad. Seems like he had fun with that project.

On the voutilianen / Rexhepi example. They decorate very well (and by the way now we are in 30x - 40x territory). And I would say they have very distinct styles that have become iconically designed. That’s a little different than what I’m talking about.

But let’s talk about their contemporary who makes equally fine if not better looking watches: Andreas Strehler. His traditional line is tops and equally iconic at Voutilainen, though not as known. But this “Strehler Sirna” watch he put out at 10x the cost will use basically a production movement in the SA-30. Who cares if it was designed and originally built “in house.” The watch pretty similar the Grone aesthetically. To my non discerning dress watch eye they might as well be identical. The SA-30 does not look 10x better than the Sellita. It just doesn’t. Nor does the watch. There are plenty of other examples.


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[77T]

Is there any word on if this is being assembled at a separate atelier?

I get the time savings using a Sellita caliber.

It puzzles me that the main brand can't keep up with its current production needs but can launch this down-market model.


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[subtona]

That looks nice.
what does it look like?

[Yobrooks]

I'm surprised about that hate... It's a great $2k watch, fun, from the Brothers, and allowed 388 folks to get in with the Gronefeld brand. Looks great, is as said, I have a salmon Principia but still jumped on this release as a casual daily wear. Love studio underdog as well but it's a totally different watch look.

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