RSC did an unauthorized switch of Bezel Inserts

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

Thank you for clarifying that to Devildog OP. I'm not exactly sure of his rationale, but he is entitled to an opinion but it contradicts ours.

I was taught this years ago. The two rules of good business.

1. The customer is always right.
2. If the customer is ever wrong, re-read rule number one.

I personally think many RSC's should post this in large bold face print in their facilities.

As a complete tangent to the OP's issue, it's interesting you raise these 'rules' of business.

There are many good reasons and well written articles documenting why the customer is not always right, and shouldn't be treated as such

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/.../#3acd1fa31f68

This article on Forbes sums up the main arguments, with number four (Not all customers are worth keeping) being undeniably true sometimes

[powerfunk]

I thought the Lititz RSC didn't interface with customers directly and only took work sent in via AD's, etc. Has that changed?

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

I thought the Lititz RSC didn't interface with customers directly and only took work sent in via AD's, etc. Has that changed?

Apparently they also take overflow work from Dallas and NYC.

[037]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

I thought the Lititz RSC didn't interface with customers directly and only took work sent in via AD's, etc. Has that changed?

They'll take walk-in customers but I don't believe they're set up for incoming shipments from customers. Shipments are still relegated to/from ADs.

And, as Jaime mentioned above, they also handle some overflow work.

[116710er]

So I have an update. RSC admitted that they screwed the pooch multiple times with my 14060 (makes you wonder how many jobs they've botched considering they screwed up three times on my 14060 alone.) A solution has been offered and I'll update this thread for completeness once everything is settled.

[SOG DIVER]

My 1680 red Submariner never has seen an RSC. It never will. For valuable
vintage watches, you are better off with a trusted CW 21 independent who will
follow your directions to the letter. Get a service now, for the parts are available. But soon, vintage caliber parts will dry up with the closed accounts.
Rolex does not like competing with itself re: earlier references.
Montres Rolex has made some decisions that may affect us all, but if you act fast, or become a CW 21, you still may face a parts issue.
I also have a 14060 M and a 16610;
those will also transition from older references to vintage. Read __Paul Altieri's "Last of the Best".

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by 116710er

So I have an update. RSC admitted that they screwed the pooch multiple times with my 14060 (makes you wonder how many jobs they've botched considering they screwed up three times on my 14060 alone.) A solution has been offered and I'll update this thread for completeness once everything is settled.

Looking forward to your feedback. Best of luck!!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by SOG DIVER

My 1680 red Submariner never has seen an RSC. It never will. For valuable
vintage watches, you are better off with a trusted CW 21 independent who will
follow your directions to the letter. Get a service now, for the parts are available. But soon, vintage caliber parts will dry up with the closed accounts.
Rolex does not like competing with itself re: earlier references.
Montres Rolex has made some decisions that may affect us all, but if you act fast, or become a CW 21, you still may face a parts issue.
I also have a 14060 M and a 16610;
those will also transition from older references to vintage. Read __Paul Altieri's "Last of the Best".

But we are not talking about a 1680 red sub but a common a garden 14060M sub insert no matter the insert new or old will effect its value now or in future.Its just a insert and inserts were meant to be changed IMHO making mountains out of mole hills.Yes they did change it without against what the owner requested but its not like the changed the whole watch its just a bezel insert. Afraid today thanks to the internet many catch the flat four bezel insert syndrome, which now seems to be the greatest must have thing since sliced. bread.

[116710er]

With all due respect, inserts are "just" inserts until they're not. Who would have thought a LV F4 would have gone as crazy as they have? Or Mk.3's. Or Bakelites...Again, doesn't matter the reason or if you agree with it, it's just a FACT. That aside, popularity/desirability by other people isn't the problem here. The problem is that I didn't want to change the original insert that came with the watch and I ESPECIALLY didn't want a service insert. Has NOTHING to do with social media (I'm not even on social media...any of them).

Bottom line, RSC shouldn't be able to just change (and most likely destroy) parts off a customer's watch at will. It's NOT their call, it's NOT their watch.

[watchmaker]

Forums are social media

Nobody disagrees that it shouldn’t have been changed. But it happened for whatever reason (mistakes happen). It’s time to let this go now.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

As a complete tangent to the OP's issue, it's interesting you raise these 'rules' of business.

There are many good reasons and well written articles documenting why the customer is not always right, and shouldn't be treated as such

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/.../#3acd1fa31f68

This article on Forbes sums up the main arguments, with number four (Not all customers are worth keeping) being undeniably true sometimes

As another ‘complete tangent’ to your possible innuendo?

Your link does not relate to this thread.

The OP gave the RSC instructions and they were not followed

Do you have more information regarding the OP’s handling of this issue?

If not I suggest you give up while you are behind.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by directioneng

As another ‘complete tangent’ to your possible innuendo?

Your link does not relate to this thread.

The OP gave the RSC instructions and they were not followed

Do you have more information regarding the OP’s handling of this issue?

If not I suggest you give up while you are behind.

My link related directly to a reply within the thread (that’s why I quoted it) . “The customer is always right” is a tired trope that is an outdated and foolish way to do business. They are not always right, and pretending they are is damaging.

You are correct, his instructions were not followed. That point has been discussed ad nauseam since page one. I have no axe to grind with the OPs handling of the case but the points he raises do not become more salient the more they are repeated.

[padi56]

Just wonder if the original poster would have kicked up as much fuss just because it was a flat four font that was used on all the sub SD range from around 2001/2004 possible longer, and used many times over the past 50 years.Even exchange 16610LV inserts are now all exchange flat four font although the green insert is a slightly different colour that most would not even notice.

[116710er]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Forums are social media

Technically true but I'm thinking more Instagram/Twitter/Facebook/etc. I'm not into any of those.

Originally Posted by padi56

Just wonder if the original poster would have kicked up as much fuss just because it was a flat four font that was used on all the sub SD range from around 2001/2004 possible longer, and used many times over the past 50 years. Even exchange 16610LV inserts are now all exchange flat four font although the green insert is a slightly different colour that most would not even notice.

If I'm understanding the question right, yes besides keeping it "born as", I also care that it's a F4 insert that was used in that era. I have a 16610 and 16600 that are also from the era and have their own version of F4 inserts (and are all original to the watch or "born as"). I wanted to keep them all the same because it represents that era.

[seasubmariner]

Originally Posted by 116710er

The older insert was in perfect shape and it was era correct insert. Why would anyone change that?

Most probably they damaged the bezel while servicing and ofcourse did not tell it to you, so they decided to change it free of charge...You have no idea what has been done in the background.

[seasubmariner]

Originally Posted by Gmt21

You need to make a big stink, ask to see the incoming and outgoing photos (they take them) - show them a photo of watch before service. I had a similar problem on a vintage cream dial explorer.....when I got it back from service they had changed the original tritium seconds hand to luminova!!! I had said change nothing. It took some months and a lot of back and forth, but the photos proved that the watch arrived original and left with a service hand. RSC Dallas messed up but they located a correct and matching seconds hand. Good luck

Probably the i. service person used a metal tweezer instead of plastic or silicon tipped one and scratched the seconds hand, and they decided to replace it with whatever is in stock.

[seasubmariner]

q

[seasubmariner]

That is really sad. Thanks for the info.

[00Time]

RSC should have respected the paying customers wishes. We are talking about an aesthetic here that makes the watch more desirable to afficionados who truly mind the details. There is also alot to be said about an all original Rolex. Especially during these times. They shouldnt ruin it for those who are passionate about these things.
These is a sad tale of an experience with the RSC. These types of stories are reasons why I would only send my Omegas back for service to the motherland. I dont think many know that this is an option offered by Omega but kudos to them for offering it. (Hows that for expressing how much I care about these things) Say what you may about me (us 5%) for caring about this level of detail.
OP has the right to be upset about this and I look forward to hearing back on how the matter was resolved.

[subtona]

My expectations of RSC service are disaster.

After so many screw ups, my conclusion is RSC has service persons who are incompetent, don’t care and use craftsmen tools and chisels to work on watches.

If your bezel was damaged and replaced in service, you should have been notified.

[116710er]

So here's the update: RSC basically recognized (but wouldn't verbally admit) that they screwed the pooch on a few too many occasions with my watch. They refunded me the entire amount of the service and they are going to provide me with an era correct insert. I'm assuming the warranty from the service will still be valid but I haven't asked that specific question as of yet. Satisfactory outcome I suppose considering the rigamarole I had to go through with this starting with the half-assed movement service...they had ONE job....

[Yachtbuoy]

Originally Posted by 116710er

So here's the update: RSC basically recognized (but wouldn't verbally admit) that they screwed the pooch on a few too many occasions with my watch. They refunded me the entire amount of the service and they are going to provide me with an era correct insert. I'm assuming the warranty from the service will still be valid but I haven't asked that specific question as of yet. Satisfactory outcome I suppose considering the rigamarole I had to go through with this starting with the half-assed movement service...they had ONE job....

Hopefully they follow through with a good outcome for you, but should've gotten it right the first time!

[116710er]

Well, if anyone cares, here's the "LOL" update. So I finally got down to RSC and gave them my 14060 to have the replacement insert installed. After waiting about 30-45 minutes, the service manager came out and said that their tech wasn't able to install the insert into the bezel because it didn't seem to fit but they're sure it's a 14060 insert (which I too believe it is). Guess the tech wasn't able to easily install it and probably didn't want to force it. So now my 14060 is on its way back to Lititz so a more experience tech (I assume) can install it.

I thought it was going to be a simple in-n-out deal and then I'd be forever done with this debacle but as it turns out, it'll be another 2+ weeks. At least the inserts were in decent shape. Didn't really care for them to be in better shape than the original one but I would care if they were in worse shape.

This RSC service is the gift that just keeps on giving...at least the service manager is very nice and understanding. Probably nearly as frustrated with this as I am.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by 116710er

Well, if anyone cares, here's the "LOL" update. So I finally got down to RSC and gave them my 14060 to have the replacement insert installed. After waiting about 30-45 minutes, the service manager came out and said that their tech wasn't able to install the insert into the bezel because it didn't seem to fit but they're sure it's a 14060 insert (which I too believe it is). Guess the tech wasn't able to easily install it and probably didn't want to force it. So now my 14060 is on its way back to Lititz so a more experience tech (I assume) can install it.

I thought it was going to be a simple in-n-out deal and then I'd be forever done with this debacle but as it turns out, it'll be another 2+ weeks. At least the inserts were in decent shape. Didn't really care for them to be in better shape than the original one but I would care if they were in worse shape.

This RSC service is the gift that just keeps on giving...at least the service manager is very nice and understanding. Probably nearly as frustrated with this as I am.

Possible they were trying to fit a 16610 insert, as on 14060 39.5mm on 16610 40.00mm as both inserts are quite simple to fit.

[037]

Could it be a 16600 insert? I don't recall exact dimensions but that one is almost identical to the 14060 insert but not exactly the same diameter.

[nda]

Hope it gets resolved. If something is important to a customer - then it's important. Period. It would be like polishing out the ding from a wartime hip-flask 'we've made it look like new' but erased the important history and patina.

[enjoythemusic]

Wow, the saga continues.... Sorry to hear of your situation and glad Rolex is trying to make right by you.

[springer]

Originally Posted by erhein

I have to say, I don't even understand what the debate is here. Customer told RSC not to change the bezel insert. RSC changed the bezel insert. RSC is in the wrong. There's no debate there. It doesn't matter whether it affected the value of the watch, even if it increased the value. It doesn't matter whether it changed the look of the watch, even if it improved the look. It doesn't matter whether "you" would be upset that RSC didn't follow "your" instructions. The customer told them not to change the bezel insert. It's his watch. He is, at the very least, owed an explanation as to what happened, how it happened and why. Mistakes can occur. Customer service is measured by how the mistake is handled once it is discovered. This is, at best, piss poor customer service.

This comment...piss poor customer service .....had me laughing hard tonight. Actually, it made my night because all I could think of was "is there such a thing as good customer service anymore?"

To the OP, if you need a flat four Sub insert, send me a PM. None of the later black Sub inserts bring a premium - they are all inexpensive.

[MoreGarages413]

This reminds me of an interaction i had with BMW service on our z8. The turn signal indicator self cancelling feature was spotty. The service advisor flatly said that we do not want his techs touching a pristine one-owner vehicle to fix this. The chance of collateral issues/damage was nearly a given.

Sounds like rolex world is the same - near vintage unmolested pieces should be kept away from factory service.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[116710er]

Originally Posted by padi56

Possible they were trying to fit a 16610 insert, as on 14060 39.5mm on 16610 40.00mm as both inserts are quite simple to fit.

Yeah that was my first thought too so they measured it and they said it wasn't for a 16610. They actually made this mistake previously but just from the photos I could tell that it was wrong because this era 14060 and 16610 have a distinct "2" and "4". Just to confirm, I also tried placing the insert on top of my 16610 that I was wearing (I was there to have the springbars swapped...free BTW) and I couldn't get it around the crystal which (in my mind) gave additional confirmation that it wasn't for a 16610...I think 037 might have the right answer...

Originally Posted by 037

Could it be a 16600 insert? I don't recall exact dimensions but that one is almost identical to the 14060 insert but not exactly the same diameter.

037, I think you might have hit the nail on the head. I hadn't even considered the 16600 in this entire process. So I did some googling and found this:

14060 36.55mm Outside Diameter; 29.7 inner diameter
16660 36.65mm Outside Diameter; 29.7 inner diameter

So if this is accurate, it totally makes sense...if the inserts that RSC provided were 16600 inserts, it would fit over the crystal of the 14060 but it wouldn't go into the bezel. I just compared my old 14060 picts to my 16600 and seems like the 16600 and 14060 have very similar looking fonts but the 4's are slightly different. I do remember thinking that the "4" didn't look quite right and now I know why...