Cheated by Selfridges (London) and AP

[IS250C]

Went for my wedding anniversary holiday to London in Jan 2016 and brought my wife a beautiful AP watch as our anniversary gift. We have been extremely happy with the watch. It is really beautiful and we get lots of joy admiring it.

Recently the rubber portion of the chrono pusher, crown and bezel were disintegrating with pieces of rubber dropping off. Last week we had some spare time and drop by AP boutique to check out the rubber issue.

Big big nasty surprise. We were told that the watch is an extremely old watch make in 2011. This is a big shock. We never expect that we can be scammed by 2 big reputable companies - Selfridges and AP to pay full retail price for a 5 years old watch.

The feeling is now a mixture of anger, betrayal and disappointment during the past week whenever we see the beautiful watch.

I am asking some helpful guys in this forum from your knowledge and experience. How and what can I do to get Selfridges and/or AP to do something in my situation. Just felt terrible to get cheated in this manner. Really depressing.

[rootbeer7]

First place to start is Selfridges. I can’t remember if the Watch Gallery still have the franchise or if it’s part of WOS or other. It’s not unusual for watches to be sold years after manufacture, but guarantee should start from when it’s sold.

[Andad]

As you said - guaranteed from date of purchase.

[ocN55]

Hi OP,

It looks like your warranty expired on January of 2019 (3yrs from purchase date). It has nothing to due with the watch being an H serial from 2011.

It's also not uncommon for a watch to be NOS (New Old Stock) for a few years, especially for women's pieces. But lots of people don't like this and is one of the reasons Rolex and AP are now "scrambling" the serial so you cannot tell the year from the serial.

That said, try to express your concern to the AD from the view of being unaware that this is standard practice and that you'd really appreciate a favor.

Hope you don't feel cheated. Whatever you purchased for your wife, it's a wonderful AP :)

[IS250C]

Hi All Friends who have replied,

I have no issue with the warranty. I will assumed that I was given 3 years from the purchased date in 2016 because I didn't need to send in for warranty which should be for AP quality since the purchase.

The main issue is I felt short changed by getting an extremely old stock. It was already 5 years old when I brought it home in 2016.

And now I am thinking if this is a used watch. And I am not sure if the rubber disintegrating is due to the extra 5 years spent sitting in the showroom or the worst situation of it sitting on another woman's wrist.

Never imagine there will be this type of nasty surprise or doubt of getting such old stock when buying a brand new AP.

Giving me additional sadness as if the covid is not enough to depress all.

Originally Posted by ocN55

Hi OP,

It looks like your warranty expired on January of 2019 (3yrs from purchase date). It has nothing to due with the watch being an H serial from 2011.

It's also not uncommon for a watch to be NOS (New Old Stock) for a few years, especially for women's pieces. But lots of people don't like this and is one of the reasons Rolex and AP are now "scrambling" the serial so you cannot tell the year from the serial.

That said, try to express your concern to the AD from the view of being unaware that this is standard practice and that you'd really appreciate a favor.

Hope you don't feel cheated. Whatever you purchased for your wife, it's a wonderful AP :)

[maciej]

Originally Posted by IS250C

The main issue is I felt short changed by getting an extremely old stock. It was already 5 years old when I brought it home in 2016.

So, you feel short changed because you didn’t do due diligence or ask questions about the piece?

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by maciej

So, you feel short changed because you didn’t do due diligence or ask questions about the piece?

Let's say you are selling the watch and you get the following question:

''Is this watch brand new or has it been sitting on the shelves?''.


What would you reply?

[IS250C]

Originally Posted by maciej

So, you feel short changed because you didn’t do due diligence or ask questions about the piece?

I do not know how to check except asking the staff. Nothing is mentioned on the watch or warranty about manufacturing date. I remember hearing from the sales something along the line that AP is popular brand and inventory turnover is very fast. I do believe it is the case. Even now I still believed that AP watches do not have any chance to stay in the showroom for long. I will never never expect to be sold a 5 years old watch.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

[IS250C]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Let's say you are selling the watch and you get the following question:



''Is this watch brand new or has it been sitting on the shelves?''.





What would you reply?

I will reply with the truth that it is sitting for 5 years. I see no good reason for not telling the truth. I believed to uphold the truth.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

[kzm40]

Originally Posted by IS250C

I do not know how to check except asking the staff. Nothing is mentioned on the watch or warranty about manufacturing date. I remember hearing from the sales something along the line that AP is popular brand and inventory turnover is very fast. I do believe it is the case. Even now I still believed that AP watches do not have any chance to stay in the showroom for long. I will never never expect to be sold a 5 years old watch.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

Popular models move quickly, less popular ones can stay around for years, and rubber is very perishable!

[maciej]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Let's say you are selling the watch and you get the following question:

''Is this watch brand new or has it been sitting on the shelves?''.

What would you reply?

This hypothetical situation is already more sophisticated and demonstrates more due diligence than what had happened, that question wasn't even asked.

[GS93108]

My wife has the purple one that she bought new in 2012, it's perfect, no signs of wear on the rubber pushers, although she doesn't wear it all the time. She also has a newer pink model with metal pushers, which I think is a better design, but regardless the purple one is nearly 8 years old now and shows no signs of wear.

A couple of observations on your post.

1. If you were happy with the purchase, and more importantly that your wife was happy with the purchase then you shouldn't really have any remorse.
2. The warranty has expired regardless of whether it was new in 2016 or 2011. Thus you have no recourse against anyone anyway.
3. Other than you 'feeling' let down, which is just a feeling, what difference does it make to you? As I stated above, my wife has a rubber pusher model, just one year younger that you wife's watch any my wife's pushers are perfect. I can post a pic if you like.
4. There's no way that rubber pushers 'perish' from being NOS and sitting on a shelf, they perish from use.
5. There's no way Selfridges sold you a 'used' watch and there's no way AP supplied Selfridges with a used watch.

So, there's no 'loss' to you and nothing for you to feel upset about. Just don't tell your wife, if you do then the fact that you are 'in the dog house' is down to you :)

One more thing, the difference in used retail value for that model, taking into account of the 2011-2106 dates, will be so negligible that I'd be surprised if it had any consequences at all.

Sorry for your disappointment but send the watch to AP for a spa treatment and service and then your wife will make you happy on its return.

[Hollie_Rollie]

Originally Posted by GS93108

My wife has the purple one that she bought new in 2012, it's perfect, no signs of wear on the rubber pushers, although she doesn't wear it all the time. She also has a newer pink model with metal pushers, which I think is a better design, but regardless the purple one is nearly 8 years old now and shows no signs of wear.

A couple of observations on your post.

1. If you were happy with the purchase, and more importantly that your wife was happy with the purchase then you shouldn't really have any remorse.
2. The warranty has expired regardless of whether it was new in 2016 or 2011. Thus you have no recourse against anyone anyway.
3. Other than you 'feeling' let down, which is just a feeling, what difference does it make to you? As I stated above, my wife has a rubber pusher model, just one year younger that you wife's watch any my wife's pushers are perfect. I can post a pic if you like.
4. There's no way that rubber pushers 'perish' from being NOS and sitting on a shelf, they perish from use.
5. There's no way Selfridges sold you a 'used' watch and there's no way AP supplied Selfridges with a used watch.

So, there's no 'loss' to you and nothing for you to feel upset about. Just don't tell your wife, if you do then the fact that you are 'in the dog house' is down to you :)

One more thing, the difference in used retail value for that model, taking into account of the 2011-2106 dates, will be so negligible that I'd be surprised if it had any consequences at all.

Sorry for your disappointment but send the watch to AP for a spa treatment and service and then your wife will make you happy on its return.

This is a great response. I’d send it in for service and call it a day. No need to stress about it during these times. Take it as a learning experience. Best of luck

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

This is a great response. I’d send it in for service and call it a day. No need to stress about it during these times. Take it as a learning experience. Best of luck

Exactly. @GS93108 nailed it, and you can only learn from this experience.

1. It is not uncommon for luxury goods to sit on the shelf for months or even years, unless they are the hottest models. There was nothing dishonest about how this watch was sold by the retailer or the manufacturer.
2. Rubber is perishable. It is also replaceable, but I personally would be hesitant to buy a rubber clad lux watch.

[AK797]

Unless you can prove the watch is used then you have no comeback, but do call/email AP House in London and politely explain your predicament, they are very customer orientated and I'm sure they will work with you towards some resolution.

[1William]

Sorry for your situation but, as explained very well in previous posts, you were sold a new watch. There is no evidence to the contrary and you can speculate how ever you want but in the end, you have a great watch that needs service. I would contact AP directly and explain your situation and ask them to help you. If done appropriately they may help you in a way that will help how you feel. If not, then you still get the watch serviced and your wife can wear and enjoy it for years to come. Live and learn. Get the watch serviced, pull your felling out of the situation and move on.

[V25V]

Just send it in. My wife's ROO experienced the same issue with the pushers over time, at service they were replaced along with the rubber strap. Wasn't expensive and looked like new when it came back. Not worth stressing over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[P2725TMB]

Originally Posted by 1William

Sorry for your situation but, as explained very well in previous posts, you were sold a new watch. There is no evidence to the contrary and you can speculate how ever you want but in the end, you have a great watch that needs service. I would contact AP directly and explain your situation and ask them to help you. If done appropriately they may help you in a way that will help how you feel. If not, then you still get the watch serviced and your wife can wear and enjoy it for years to come. Live and learn. Get the watch serviced, pull your felling out of the situation and move on.

This.

If you explain your feelings in an objective and polite manner you may well get some sort of assistance from AP - I've always found the brand to be very sympathetic and supportive indeed. However, if you approach them with the view-point of feeling cheated and hard done by I doubt it will be beneficial to your cause.

[punta del este]

To say you feel “cheated” is a bit extreme.

You bought the watch and enjoyed the watch, now just get it serviced by AP and move on.

The rubber doesn’t disintegrate whilst sitting in Selfridges, your wife has been wearing and using the watch. No big deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mbbgysam]

Originally Posted by P2725TMB

This.

If you explain your feelings in an objective and polite manner you may well get some sort of assistance from AP - I've always found the brand to be very sympathetic and supportive indeed. However, if you approach them with the view-point of feeling cheated and hard done by I doubt it will be beneficial to your cause.

Couldn't agree more.

Originally Posted by punta del este

To say you feel “cheated” is a bit extreme.

You bought the watch and enjoyed the watch, now just get it serviced by AP and move on.

The rubber doesn’t disintegrate whilst sitting in Selfridges, your wife has been wearing and using the watch. No big deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmmm... isn't it plausible though? Rubber degradation is a function of age and environment. The watch likely spent a chunk of those 5 years under high-UV boutique lighting conditions that could have accelerated the rubber deterioration (the higher the light intensity, the quicker the rubber will degrade). Same reason I've seen straps discolor on watches that have been sitting in the case. Might at least be worth the argument to AP?

[punta del este]

Originally Posted by Mbbgysam

Couldn't agree more.



Hmmm... isn't it plausible though? Rubber degradation is a function of age and environment. The watch likely spent a chunk of those 5 years under high-UV boutique lighting conditions that could have accelerated the rubber deterioration (the higher the light intensity, the quicker the rubber will degrade). Same reason I've seen straps discolor on watches that have been sitting in the case. Might at least be worth the argument to AP?

It is plausible so you are correct, but generally the rubber (Therban) is more likely to be degraded with sweat, cleaning and general usage. Also you don’t know how the watch has been treated over the years by the owner and whether that’s the root cause.

I have a rubberclad offshore and the rubber parts get a bit shiny, never disintegrated.

Would definitely ask the question of AP though, you don’t ask you don’t get!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sho-nuff]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Let's say you are selling the watch and you get the following question:

''Is this watch brand new or has it been sitting on the shelves?''.

What would you reply?

Great question. In this case, it seems a 'new' watch meant one thing to the seller and a different thing to the buyer. No evidence of dishonesty, rather they each had a different interpretation of what a new watch is.

I agree with others that it's better to approach the situation amicably rather than with accusations of 'cheating' etc.

[m3jasper]

Originally Posted by GS93108

My wife has the purple one that she bought new in 2012, it's perfect, no signs of wear on the rubber pushers, although she doesn't wear it all the time. She also has a newer pink model with metal pushers, which I think is a better design, but regardless the purple one is nearly 8 years old now and shows no signs of wear.

A couple of observations on your post.

1. If you were happy with the purchase, and more importantly that your wife was happy with the purchase then you shouldn't really have any remorse.
2. The warranty has expired regardless of whether it was new in 2016 or 2011. Thus you have no recourse against anyone anyway.
3. Other than you 'feeling' let down, which is just a feeling, what difference does it make to you? As I stated above, my wife has a rubber pusher model, just one year younger that you wife's watch any my wife's pushers are perfect. I can post a pic if you like.
4. There's no way that rubber pushers 'perish' from being NOS and sitting on a shelf, they perish from use.
5. There's no way Selfridges sold you a 'used' watch and there's no way AP supplied Selfridges with a used watch.

So, there's no 'loss' to you and nothing for you to feel upset about. Just don't tell your wife, if you do then the fact that you are 'in the dog house' is down to you :)

One more thing, the difference in used retail value for that model, taking into account of the 2011-2106 dates, will be so negligible that I'd be surprised if it had any consequences at all.

Sorry for your disappointment but send the watch to AP for a spa treatment and service and then your wife will make you happy on its return.

Very well said.

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by Mbbgysam

isn't it plausible though? Rubber degradation is a function of age and environment. The watch likely spent a chunk of those 5 years under high-UV boutique lighting conditions that could have accelerated the rubber deterioration...

High-UV boutique lighting?

OP is from Singapore, but seems to spend time in Europe... seems more likely UV light on the wrist of his wife would be more likely to degrade the rubber, or...

Originally Posted by punta del este

It is plausible so you are correct, but generally the rubber (Therban) is more likely to be degraded with sweat, cleaning and general usage. Also you don’t know how the watch has been treated over the years by the owner and whether that’s the root cause...

OP has been known to use pliers to tighten the crown of his AP diver! Would he have done the same with his wife's watch? You wouldn't think so, with a rubber crown, but you wouldn't think so on a ceramic crown, either!

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by RolexZen

OP has been known to use pliers to tighten the crown of his AP diver!

Off topic now, but what and why?

[Mbbgysam]

Originally Posted by punta del este

It is plausible so you are correct, but generally the rubber (Therban) is more likely to be degraded with sweat, cleaning and general usage. Also you don’t know how the watch has been treated over the years by the owner and whether that’s the root cause.

I have a rubberclad offshore and the rubber parts get a bit shiny, never disintegrated.

Would definitely ask the question of AP though, you don’t ask you don’t get!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed -- ultimately caused by usage. Just need someone at AP to agree that the deterioration was plausibly accelerated by those 5 years.

Originally Posted by RolexZen

High-UV boutique lighting?

OP is from Singapore, but seems to spend time in Europe... seems more likely UV light on the wrist of his wife would be more likely to degrade the rubber, or...



OP has been known to use pliers to tighten the crown of his AP diver! Would he have done the same with his wife's watch? You wouldn't think so, with a rubber crown, but you wouldn't think so on a ceramic crown, either!

I should've been more specific -- I meant the lights housed within the display case frames (the 5th photo here shows AP's setup at Selfridges). That's a whole lot of direct heat/light if it sat in the case for 5 years.

Oh, and yikes about the pliers!!

[ufboy73]

This seems a bit of a stretch to me..

There is no ambiguity of what is a ‘new’ watch in a retail context...it has not been sold previously.

That is a different concept than a recent model, recent manufacture date, recently arrived into inventory, etc. if a customer cares about these thing they need to enquire appropriately.

But, really, how far do you want to take this...how long were the bit of rubber used for gaskets and pushers sitting on AP manufacturing shelves before they were put on to your watch? How long had movements parts been sitting in bins? How long ago were lubricants applied...

The watch was unsold, unused, and came with a warranty that wasn’t needed during its duration. You are in maintenance mode, now, like every other watch out of warranty.

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by ufboy73

This seems a bit of a stretch to me..

There is no ambiguity of what is a ‘new’ watch in a retail context...it has not been sold previously.

That is a different concept than a recent model, recent manufacture date, recently arrived into inventory, etc. if a customer cares about these thing they need to enquire appropriately...

Yep, or suck it up.

I bought a "brand new" 2019 Honda Odyssey last summer. Less than 80 miles on it, bought it off the showroom floor. After I made the deal, and received the Carfax report via email, I then noticed the car was 11 months old.

I was slightly annoyed... at myself for not noticing or directly asking the question before purchase.

But then I shrugged. Carfax showed that the oil had been changed twice during that time, a recall had been taken car of, the battery had been replaced, and an entertainment system firmware update had been applied. Sure, the rubber components are a year older than I expected, but the warranty started on the day I drove it off the lot.

Cheated, I tell you!

[knorz]

Well I have a 2572s from 1994 and the rubber pushers are still intact...
May that she sprays perfume on her wrists while wearing the watch?

[IS250C]

Hi All,

Thank you for the advises and insights. Guess I will just have to move on and hopefully time will erase the bad feeling especially my wife's.

I really need to change my trusting attitude.

I don't have good experience with AP boutique and service center in Singapore. I will not service and replace the rubber parts because their staff told me that even after replacement, the rubber parts will deteriorate in couple of years. Not going to put in good money after bad one. Let the watch spend more time in her drawer.

Guess will not pull the trigger for the blue 42mm ROO with the new pusher. Very light watch. Very comfortable. So sad not buying roo anymore. In my opinion, roo/ro is the most beautiful watch. Can't fall in love with any other watch at the moment but need to hunt for one.

Cheers. You guys take care. Wash your hand. Don't touch your face. Stay away from crowded places. Good health to all.