A word in support of the new IWC Ingenieur

[Gebbeth]

I dunno. I hate that price in affecting my thoughts a bit, but it just does. I think I understand why they priced it that way, but I just don't agree with it.

This, along with the fact that IWCs rarely hold their retail price, it's just a piece I feel I can wait on for the secondary market.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Gebbeth

This, along with the fact that IWCs rarely hold their retail price, it's just a piece I feel I can wait on for the secondary market.

This kind of depends on how IWC handles allocations. If they make this hard to get with a waitlist, good luck on getting a good price on the secondary market.

As an example, when the Omega Snoopy 50 came out people were saying to just wait and get a discount used since just about all Omegas can be purchased with a discount. Here we are several years later and the price is still double retail.

[vandyologist]

Anyone seen any being delivered yet?

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by vandyologist

Anyone seen any being delivered yet?

According to the boutique here in Zurich, the first set got out the door, so there should be a few in circulation

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by vandyologist

Anyone seen any being delivered yet?

My IWC rep just told me I should see mine before the end of May!

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by texasmade

This kind of depends on how IWC handles allocations. If they make this hard to get with a waitlist, good luck on getting a good price on the secondary market.

As an example, when the Omega Snoopy 50 came out people were saying to just wait and get a discount used since just about all Omegas can be purchased with a discount. Here we are several years later and the price is still double retail.

that's true. i passed on the 50th silver medal snoopy. still kicking myself

[ISWing]

Originally Posted by Easy E

My IWC rep just told me I should see mine before the end of May!

Ooo nice, when did you order and did you have previous dealings with them ?

[-dustin]

A decent amount of the pictures make it seem as though the texture of the white dial is kinda of lost. Is that the case in person?

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by texasmade

This kind of depends on how IWC handles allocations. If they make this hard to get with a waitlist, good luck on getting a good price on the secondary market.

As an example, when the Omega Snoopy 50 came out people were saying to just wait and get a discount used since just about all Omegas can be purchased with a discount. Here we are several years later and the price is still double retail.

Guessing this will be IWC's equivalent of a Sub 20 years ago:

Readily available, but MSRP-only from ADs with the highest-volume resellers (who typically buy in bulk what those ADs cannot sell) will get just enough of a discount to offer it at maybe $1-200 below MSRP.

Perhaps IWC originally thought it would be able to ride the integrated bracelet train the way others did (AP/PP not available, so people bought up VC; VC not available so people bought GP, and so on). However I don't see that.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by ISWing

Ooo nice, when did you order and did you have previous dealings with them ?

I have purchased two watches direct, one of them had to be returned, also purchased two additional straps with folding clasps. Not really a huge spend, but did well with the rep at hand. She was great to work with.

[1259]

Im a buyer at the 8k range but not at 12. Looks like a cool watch though.

[Patek_collector]

Tried the black today… it is really nicer than what i thought. I will try to the green blue which even seem nicer… i know well the guys at IWC on a personal basis here. Never bought an IWC before. I can tell you production seems very, very low… now i understand the pricing philosophy… i may not agree on it, but at least for 2023/2024, this wont be a watch as available.

[Gebbeth]

Originally Posted by texasmade

This kind of depends on how IWC handles allocations. If they make this hard to get with a waitlist, good luck on getting a good price on the secondary market.

As an example, when the Omega Snoopy 50 came out people were saying to just wait and get a discount used since just about all Omegas can be purchased with a discount. Here we are several years later and the price is still double retail.

I guess I agree. But fundamentally, there is a balance that needs to be struck that not all watchmakers strike. It's not rinse and repeat otherwise all watchmakers would employ this strategy, and would work.

Allocation and supply game, in my opinion, only work if the product or brand has pricing power. That in turn depends on a lot of factors, not just supply.

Rolex get's away with it because everyone and their uncles and their spouses know about Rolex, the brand. It is a truly global name. So even though they stamp out a million plus watches a year, it's not enough, and ADs can play the allocation game.

Other watches and watchmakers, have to get truly "lucky" in order to have the same situation come up. The Nautilus was a dud until fairly recently. The Royal Oak wasn't the allocation monster it is now. Overseas is a really recent thing. I would say an expensive watch with a Snoopy character front and back being an "in-demand" watch in the luxury space is, I would say, a fluke of the industry. But it also has historical reference as a Moonwatch and something NASA did give out as awards. So it has that going for it.

I would argue IWC is not that brand. It's not known in the context of the general public like Rolex is. The Ingenieur was a previously forgotten Genta design with no mass appeal or desire. IWC is late to the Genta game, so it's not like it being "Genta" is something solely with IWC's sphere.

So in my opinion, this version has to be a fluke in-demand watch. No amount of supply constraints are going to change that point.

Chevy/Pontiac could have made 10 Azteks a year, and it wouldn't mean the car was in allocation. Not saying the Ingenieur is ugly, but I guess my point is that if there is no extreme demand, allocation is pointless.

Lastly, IWC has to make a return on its investment. Assuming the boutiques can't independently jack up prices on their own, it's the volume of sales that will dictate whether IWC will get their investment back and possible generate revenues in the long run.

How IWC plays this game will be interesting.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Gebbeth

I guess I agree. But fundamentally, there is a balance that needs to be struck that not all watchmakers strike. It's not rinse and repeat otherwise all watchmakers would employ this strategy, and would work.

Allocation and supply game, in my opinion, only work if the product or brand has pricing power. That in turn depends on a lot of factors, not just supply.

Rolex get's away with it because everyone and their uncles and their spouses know about Rolex, the brand. It is a truly global name. So even though they stamp out a million plus watches a year, it's not enough, and ADs can play the allocation game.

Other watches and watchmakers, have to get truly "lucky" in order to have the same situation come up. The Nautilus was a dud until fairly recently. The Royal Oak wasn't the allocation monster it is now. Overseas is a really recent thing. I would say an expensive watch with a Snoopy character front and back being an "in-demand" watch in the luxury space is, I would say, a fluke of the industry. But it also has historical reference as a Moonwatch and something NASA did give out as awards. So it has that going for it.

I would argue IWC is not that brand. It's not known in the context of the general public like Rolex is. The Ingenieur was a previously forgotten Genta design with no mass appeal or desire. IWC is late to the Genta game, so it's not like it being "Genta" is something solely with IWC's sphere.

So in my opinion, this version has to be a fluke in-demand watch. No amount of supply constraints are going to change that point.

Chevy/Pontiac could have made 10 Azteks a year, and it wouldn't mean the car was in allocation. Not saying the Ingenieur is ugly, but I guess my point is that if there is no extreme demand, allocation is pointless.

Lastly, IWC has to make a return on its investment. Assuming the boutiques can't independently jack up prices on their own, it's the volume of sales that will dictate whether IWC will get their investment back and possible generate revenues in the long run.

How IWC plays this game will be interesting.

Perhaps their not having a watch for every third person that comes into their shop despite their needing the ROI is what you buy by paying them 150% of the healthy margin they would already have made by pricing this at 9k…

Organic demand will have to have a certain critical mass for it to work, obviously, but a. it’s a very pretty watch and b. circumstantial indicators seem to suggest it attracts quite the crowd into the boutiques

[Patek_collector]

did anyone get this watch from the boutique? i am told by the boutique here, that even if i put a deposit, the green dial may not be delivered before year end. not sure if anyone is having a different experience in Europe/US/Asia.

[APWorldTour]

Originally Posted by Patek_collector

did anyone get this watch from the boutique? i am told by the boutique here, that even if i put a deposit, the green dial may not be delivered before year end. not sure if anyone is having a different experience in Europe/US/Asia.

Was told deliveries not before Q4 although few pieces might trickle out before. Titanium in 2024.

[trackingtime]

Originally Posted by Patek_collector

did anyone get this watch from the boutique? i am told by the boutique here, that even if i put a deposit, the green dial may not be delivered before year end. not sure if anyone is having a different experience in Europe/US/Asia.

same as asia, was told by my SA that teal won't be available till probably end of 2023 or start of 2024. funny how watches are being launched but there's a waiting time of 6 months and more

[mobster600]

Put a deposit down for Aqua. They said they haven’t gotten a single watch. U.S.A. No ETA on when they will come. They have 0 information

[Batmannr1]

Waiting for the Aqua Ingenieur. SA told me during my visit that the exhibition models will be present in the Amsterdam boutique at the end of May. No clue when customers can expect delivery. In Switzerland some lucky clients got theirs already. Rest of Europe has to wait…

[[}emo1337]

Big fan of that sexy blue dial. Great review btw

[KevinP.]

Great thread OP, thanks for taking the time to put out well detailed thoughts.

I have a deposit down for the aqua and am super excited for this one. I can't wait to pick it up.

Originally Posted by Nav01L

All the caseback ever does on these watches is show you what the advancements of CNC machining have been over the years.

This is hilariously true.

[londonpilgrim]

Aqua should be here soon or so I am told

[Batmannr1]

Originally Posted by londonpilgrim

Aqua should be here soon or so I am told

What the IWC boutique SA could share with me is that the Aqua will be starting to be delivered from September this year.

[Nav01L]

Our boutique is now asking for deposits to get delivery before Feb 24. Seeing as I just got that AP QP, it will be difficult to convince my wife she needs to approve money for yet another watch.

[trackingtime]

White dial and Black dial are being delivered to VIP in Singapore. (one of my friend received his white, black next week)
No news on the aqua, earliest could be August

[ISWing]

The flipping has begun, I was hopping this wouldn’t happen. That price is crazy.

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/iwc/ingen...id28940787.htm

[londonpilgrim]

Originally Posted by ISWing

The flipping has begun, I was hopping this wouldn’t happen. That price is crazy.

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/iwc/ingen...id28940787.htm

This is someone changing their arm. They will never sell it at that price.

[VerticalClutch]

The boutique I ordered my white dial one from got their first customer watch in the other day. It was a black dial. He’s hoping to have my white dial soon.

Back when I ordered mine, I was told titanium was going to be later in 2023.

Demand would appear to be pretty high. These are only going to be harder to get going forward.

[ap1]

Any updates ~ what are people hearing for initial deliveries. What colors etc

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by ap1

Any updates ~ what are people hearing for initial deliveries. What colors etc

My IWC rep initially told me end of May. Late May she called and said there was a delay with Aqua and current projections are late June.