Just got off the telephone with Paul (theVTCGuy).........

[Grissom]

Originally Posted by MonBK

I don't blame Paul for taking a break after all the crap he took for voicing his opinion.

Just spoke with Paul, also wondering where he was, as I had recently bought him a little gift, and wanted to connect up so I could give it to him. When I saw it, I knew I needed to snag it for him!



I told him that folks were worried and freaking out about "no Paul", and he told me that he had decided to take some time away from TRF......I asked him why, and he said "I guess you didn't see the thread about traveling with a child". I said no, I hadn't as I have not been on TRF much lately, as I was helping my wife on a number of photojournalistic projects she is currently working on.

Well, he told me briefly about that thread, which I just read, and then he shared something with me that I found really appalling......that he had received approximately 15 vitriolic hate filled PMs from a variety of TRF members (as a result of his posts on that thread), some of which he thought were his "cyber/TRF" friends, based on his past interactions with them.

While his posts were clearly off topic (I read the thread), and having traveled extensively with my kids when they were young, as well as extensive travel without my children, and thus understanding all sides of what he brought up, I can certainly understand how his posts might have created some emotion among other TRF members, however, I doubt anyone here felt he was personally attacking any other member, however much they disliked his opinions.

To personally attack anyone for respectfully voicing their opinion (even if extremely unpopular, or out of place, absent any malice), in such a manner, seems totally uncalled for, and to do it as an anonymous (if you will) member of an internet forum, is reprehensible, bordering on scary and even potentially criminal, depending on what is said.

I realize that his comments were/are unpopular to many here, and a simple "Hey Paul, while we respect your right to express your feelings, they are really off topic, so please, if you have nothing to add to the thread, helping out the OP, perhaps this is not the place to voice them" would have been more appropriate, or simply ignoring them and letting them go, would have worked out better.

I am neither defending his comments nor supporting them.....I'm merely sharing, as he told me, why he is making himself scarce now.....and sharing my thoughts as to how inappropriate I feel such "hate mail" is. There is a right way and a wrong way to communicate with someone who you think has crossed a line in a post, where there is no clear cut malice involved. I recall I once posted something kinda mean, in a thread, and another member gently admonished me.......and I got it, and immediately amended my post, and thanked the member for keeping me properly focused!

We may all, a time or two, say something that ends up being quite polarizing, often not even realizing what the end result might be, and then, in our efforts to explain what we meant, we might even make things potentially worse.....as we try and let people know we were not trying to make a mean comment. We don't always "get it" right away, and say, "Gee, thanks, I screwed up with that comment, thanks for setting me straight", especially when we end up feeling personally attacked.

I always felt that Paul was extremely well liked on TRF, and was surprised to hear him tell me what happened......I really found it hard to believe that he was attacked for his comments, feeling that so many here "knew" him from his past interactions, such that they would not immediately go to the "dark side" when he posted something like we are speaking about, but when I read the thread, I saw different, and when informed about the PMs, I was really saddened.

Anyways, that is why he has not been around, according to my brief conversation with him today....I hope he feels comfortable to come back soon, for I miss his stories, and interactions with Jocke.

As I realize that I do not have the post count or longevity of many here, nor am a prolific contributor, I apologize in advance if my comments in any way are considered inappropriate, or if they have offended anyone.

[Gagebuilder]

Well, bad to hear, good to know, never saw the thread.

I've never been a big poster, but I've backed away some too. There's been too much negativity lately. "That's ugly" "That's Rubbish" when I joined, very little of that went on. People tended to follow the "If you don't have something nice to say, move along" montra.

And highjacked threads happened within 5 posts! Was normal, now threads can go PAGES on subject, it's almost creepy!



Maybe it's just true what they say, them Cranbrook boys are SOFT!


Come back when you're ready, Paul, but ya gotta come back. Day - O!

[BarkMaster]

Glad to hear he's OK; sad to hear about the PM's... BUT (I know, there I go again with my big BUT) he knew he was posting an off-topic, provocative message. In his words: "Ok, let the hate-posts begin.... ". So it looks like he got what he asked for and is sulking. "If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" His sarcasm and antgonism to the responses (on a topic he knows very, very little about) garnered more than he had hoped for.

Regardless of him putting his foot in his mouth, I really like Paul. I hope he comes back after he chills out.

[Brunotheboxer]

Never saw the thread. Paul should post the names of those who threatened him.

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by Brunotheboxer

Never saw the thread. Paul should post the names of those who threatened him.

I saw the thread and don't recall him posting anything that is untrue. I agree he should post the names of those who threatened him.

[77T]

I've enjoyed the fair-game fun in many a thread between Paul & Jocke & some of their many friends acquaintances. BUT (here's mine)

I have read the thread in question - mistakes were made - apologies prolly overdue - and maybe from several folks.

In a public forum, even among ordinarily calm adults, things can spiral into the ground.

My FWIW An 11' pole can be a dangerous thing ---

[BarkMaster]

Originally Posted by Art 1

I saw the thread and don't recall him posting anything that is untrue. I agree he should post the names of those who threatened him.

Here is what he said: "How the kids affect their surrounding travelers is 100% up to the parents."

That statement is partially true, but not 100%. Large families are a good example of how the same parents can have children with very different behaviours.

It is completely false if the child is sick or has an ear ache. I can speak for the latter myself. We travelled all over with our daughter from the age of six months and she was always very well behaved... except the one time she was sick around the age of two, nap time was interrupted to board and she started crying, which got worse when the cabin pressurized due to the pressure on her hurting ears.

It would take someone who has been in that situation to understand it. You have no idea how mortifying it is to get that "look" from people who have no idea of the circumstances, yet you know they are judging you from the look itself.

[mtrunner]

The entire situation is ridiculous. The fact that several people threatened him because they did not agree with his opinion is beyond out of line. I don't think Paul said anything that was that out of line to warrant such hate.

[BarkMaster]

Originally Posted by mtrunner

I don't think Paul said anything that was that out of line to warran such hate.

For the record... I was not one of those. I agree that any hate PM's (or public posts for that matter) are unacceptable.

[conrail]

Originally Posted by mtrunner

The entire situation is ridiculous. The fact that several people threatened him because they did not agree with his opinion is beyond out of line. I don't think Paul said anything that was that out of line to warran such hate.

x2. Seriously. It's easy to disagree and voice such, but to send hate-filled PMs!? Wtf...

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by conrail

x2. Seriously. It's easy to disagree and voice such, but to send hate-filled PMs!? Wtf...

Some parents children are in fact the center of the universe. If you don't agree with this they'll just threaten your life.

[Dan2010]

I really, really, really, really, really like cheesy poofs.....................

[The Joker]

Well put Nathon, I completely agree with you. My personal opinion was some of the the reply's were very harsh towards Paul. Although his reply wasn't what the OP asked about, I didn't know an offshoot/slant on a topic was so frowned upon.

He never said he was actually rude or abusive to a parent, and I bet he would deal with such a situation by being nothing more than a gentleman.

It was just an opinion of his at the time, and I can't see how it offended people that much.

[BarkMaster]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

I really, really, really, really, really like cheesy poofs.....................

But don't they leave your fingers orange??

[MoBe]

If people don`t want to hear the opinion of others then they should stay away from public forums,or should I have said fora,what do you think?

[Rollie2011]

Originally Posted by BarkMaster

Regardless of him putting his foot in his mouth, I really like Paul. I hope he comes back after he chills out.

+1

Paul was a favorite poster of mine.

He made an insensitive and stupid remark and got flamed for it.

I hope he comes back when the dust settles

[cedargrove]

Although his posts were somewhat off topic, I didn't find them all that bad, and took no offense to them.

Come home Paul.

[GothamG8or]

I think everyone involved needs to relax. This place is better than what that thread devolved into let alone if there were offensive or threatening DMs sent.

Is it really worth burning relationships (cyber or otherwise) over? I'd hope not.

[mjclark32]

Originally Posted by mtrunner

The entire situation is ridiculous. The fact that several people threatened him because they did not agree with his opinion is beyond out of line. I don't think Paul said anything that was that out of line to warrant such hate.

Agreed. Paul, come back. Be done with this nonsense.

[Darlinboy]

Originally Posted by BarkMaster

But don't they leave your fingers orange??

That's why I prefer pie.

[Dr.Brian]

It's a shame that so many members of our little community would send hate filled PMs to another member. If you don't like something someone says, WHO CARES! Hate filled emails? Really?
I know it's the internet and all though.
Shame.

[GradyPhilpott]

Those who would spew vitriol over a statement like that are the ones who need to take a leave of absence until they can regain their presence of mind.

As far as I understand the rules of the board, the same conduct that is required on the board is required in PMs, so there needs to be some apologies rendered in this matter from both sides and I'm pretty sure that Paul meant nothing personal by his generic comment, which I'm pretty much in agreement with myself.

[Dan2010]

Originally Posted by Darlinboy

That's why I prefer pie.

I like pie too................

[Dan2010]

Originally Posted by BarkMaster

But don't they leave your fingers orange??

Thats ok, it's like Kentucky Fried Chicken................finger licking good.........

[Grissom]

How interesting that I came across this when I opened Yahoo, a few minutes ago.....So apropos a message.....for all of us (even though he is focusing on Politics), for all situations, both large and small.......Something to think about, for sure!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Warren: 'Coarsening of our Culture' Concerns Me
By Jake Tapper | ABC OTUS News – 2 hrs 21 mins ago

For "This Week," I sat down with Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif. As many Americans celebrate Easter and Passover, I asked Warren about the state of nation spiritually. The full and exclusive interview will air tomorrow morning on "This Week."

TAPPER: When you gave the invocation at President Obama's inauguration and you said the following: 'And as we face these difficult days ahead, may we have a new birth of clarity in our aims, responsibility in our actions, humility in our approaches and civility in our attitudes, even when we differ.'

TAPPER: How are we doing? What's the state of the nation spiritually?

WARREN: The coarsening of our culture and the loss of civility in our civilization is one of the things that concerns me most about our nation. We don't know how to disagree without being disagreeable. The fact is, you can - you can walk hand-in-hand without seeing eye-to-eye. And what we need in our country is unity, not uniformity.

There are major differences, politically, religiously, economically in our nation. We have many different streams in our nation. We're not all going to believe the same, and any politician who acts like we do is really - that's a nice campaign statement. We have major differences. I don't think some of those differences are solvable.

What is solvable is how we treat each other with our differences. As a Christian, I am commanded by Jesus Christ to love everybody. I am not allowed to hate anyone. Other people are allowed to hate me. But as a Christian, I am not allowed to hate anyone. In fact, the Bible tells me in I Peter, show respect to everyone, even people I totally disagree with.
So I'm coming from that viewpoint in that we must return civility to our civilization in order to get on. But the reason I do that is because of the deeper reason, there's a spiritual root to my reason for civility. If you don't have a spiritual root for that reason, then you're going to be - go for the expedient, and that is, 'We need to win. We need to win in this issue. We need to win in this election. We need to win in this.'

And it becomes - you can't fix the problem as long as you're fixing the blame.

And the thing that I dislike the most about our current American discourse is people are constantly blaming everybody else. I tell my members, you spell blame B-LAME. And any time a leader blames somebody else, he or she is being lame. And we need to get - we can't fix the problem until we stop fixing the blame.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wasn't trying to bring up the issues in the post that started this, merely addressing the aftermath.......and imagine my surprise when I came across this little vignette of an interview with Rick Warren......and found such a profound concept, "The need to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable", which really captures so succinctly the essence of what I was trying to say here.....

(Oh, and I, too, like Cheesy Puffs AND Pie! )

[BarkMaster]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

Thats ok, it's like Kentucky Fried Chicken................finger licking good.........

That explains your pruny fingers.

[Paladin]

What's sad is the 15 forum members who sent vitriolic hate filled PMs most likely have children they are responsible for "raising". One has to wonder with such adults setting the example in life how the children will turn out.

I am also womdering well as what their kids must be allowed to do in airports and airplanes that clearly touched a nerve and generated hate filled PM's. Me thinks "the shoe" may fit a bit too tightly for some.

I read the entire thread and I agree he went off topic but I cant disagree with most of the points he made. I suspect he may be taking a time out because with all the Mod participatioon and criticism, I'm sure he probably racked up some infraction points as well.

Time heals most all things. Paul...we will be waiting for your return.

Cheers!

[Dr. Robert]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

I really, really, really, really, really like cheesy poofs.....................

I prefer Doritos.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

I like pie too................

Pie??? Did someone say pie?

Cherry or key lime please!

[gmh1013]

I never had kids and try to watch my comments on others that do....I find people get way to worked up over children....mainly there own children.
My 2 cents is "Get over it people!" its a public forum.