Chips on 44 FC ROO

[APAP]

Hi,

I just peeled the stickers off of the watch and noticed a few chips on the top and bottom of the watch. Doesn't look normal to me.

Such a turn off.

Thoughts?

[texex91]

I don't see anything--can you post some more detailed shots?

[APAP]

Yeah they are not showing up clearly in pictures and I don't have my DSLR on me. Trying again.

[texex91]

Are you referring to the dots between the white arrows?

[masterserg]

This is normal for the material and it comes with the territory. It's not an even surface (especially on the sharp angles as the areas you are highlighting) and depending on the light / angle you will see different things. Just don't start poking at it with your nails.

If in doubt, you can always have AP service take a look at it.

[APAP]

Another shot of the bottom.

[APAP]

Originally Posted by masterserg

This is normal for the material and it comes with the territory. It's not an even surface and depending on the light / angle you will see different things. Just don't start poking at it with your nails

If in doubt, you can always have AP service take a look at it.

Well, it's very apparent when I look at it.

One more thing; I started to suspect that the AD sold me a not really new watch.

Can anyone confirm the (8) screws alignment on the lug and the strap? Mine are not aligned and seem to have been tampered with. Or am I taking this way too much?

[AK797]

Bezel Screws should be perfect, show us a full pic.

[singe89]

Really hard to see anything in the pics. I haven't been easy on my FC diver at all over the last 2 years. It gets thrown in my golf bag, knocked around when playing with my kid/dogs, hits door jams, even hit a stucco wall, etc with no damage. FC sometimes looks like there is a dent/scratch but its usually part of the marbling effect.

I wouldnt scratch at it hard with my nail but if you run a finger nail over the spot can you feel the chips? Also taking it out in the bright sun light and changing angles usually helps see if there is a chip or not.

The screws on the plots/strap, lugs and case back will not line up. They only line up on the bezel.

[APAP]

Originally Posted by singe89

Really hard to see anything in the pics. I haven't been easy on my FC diver at all over the last 2 years. It gets thrown in my golf bag, knocked around when playing with my kid/dogs, hits door jams, even hit a stucco wall, etc with no damage. FC sometimes looks like there is a dent/scratch but its usually part of the marbling effect.

I wouldnt scratch at it hard with my nail but if you run a finger nail over the spot can you feel the chips? Also taking it out in the bright sun light and changing angles usually helps see if there is a chip or not.

The screws on the plots/strap, lugs and case back will not line up. They only line up on the bezel.

Yes I can feel them by running my nail over the watch. It's really disappointing if that is considered normal.

[APAP]

Originally Posted by texex91

Are you referring to the dots between the white arrows?

Yes these are the ones. I can feel the dents.

[masterserg]

My suggestion would be to take it back to the AD as it might need to go back to AP for warranty work if you got a defective case (or call AP Service and they will tell you what to do). Bummer but it happens.

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by APAP

Yes I can feel them by running my nail over the watch. It's really disappointing if that is considered normal.

Originally Posted by APAP

Yes these are the ones. I can feel the dents.

I've had my FC for about 6 months. Essentially my daily driver, though I am mindful not to strike anything with it. Looks brand new.

So no nicks/chips anywhere on the case now, or when new, on the flat parts or the edges.
Seems odd to me that you have knicks/chips that you can feel on those sharper edges.

[singe89]

Originally Posted by APAP

Yes I can feel them by running my nail over the watch. It's really disappointing if that is considered normal.

If you can feel it then I would NOT consider it normal and is should be checked by AP.

I also have a FC case from a 44mm and one from a concept. These were rejects that didnt make it through AP quality control and neither of these cases have chips like yours appears to have. AP has extremely strict quality control standards that I've seen first hand (how I got the reject cases). I can also say that I've done some durablity testing on these cases to see how tough FC is. Not real scientific but dropped them from about 5 feet onto tile floor, scratched with my finger nail at different pressures to see what would cause dents and or scratches. Also put some household cleaners on them to see if they would mark/stain.

[mspeed76]

itt probaby wasn't a new watch.

no way it would have passed AP QC like that

[APAP]

Finally managed to capture the chips clearly.

I took the watch back and they are ordering a new one for me.

Should I order the ceramic this time? It's too plain to my taste though. Really like FC. I guess I got a lemon and next one should be perfect. It will take a month to get here.

[APAP]

Originally Posted by singe89

If you can feel it then I would NOT consider it normal and is should be checked by AP.

I also have a FC case from a 44mm and one from a concept. These were rejects that didnt make it through AP quality control and neither of these cases have chips like yours appears to have. AP has extremely strict quality control standards that I've seen first hand (how I got the reject cases). I can also say that I've done some durablity testing on these cases to see how tough FC is. Not real scientific but dropped them from about 5 feet onto tile floor, scratched with my finger nail at different pressures to see what would cause dents and or scratches. Also put some household cleaners on them to see if they would mark/stain.

How were the results? Compared to SS?

[masterserg]

Yeah ... that did not look right at all.

[APAP]

it just hit me; they "advised" me not remove the stickers to keep the watch new. I don't want to get into conspiracy theory here but I dont trust these guys anymore. The only issue is that they have my money now and I have to deal with it.

How do I assure that the new watch is really new though.

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by APAP

Finally managed to capture the chips clearly.

I took the watch back and they are ordering a new one for me.

Should I order the ceramic this time? It's too plain to my taste though. Really like FC. I guess I got a lemon and next one should be perfect. It will take a month to get here.

Glad you are getting a new one!
For me, the ceramic model was a bit too monochromatic with ceramic bezel and case. I like the way forged carbon looks, and the warmer feel vs ceramic.
But can understand how to many, the material seems too plasticky, or have concerns about durability.
I have a carbon fiber road bike and a carbon fiber mountain bike which has carbon fiber wheels--no issues thus far.

The ceramic version is also a great watch (as are all the 44mm's), but those can chip on the sharp edges as well. No material is completely invulnerable.

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by APAP

it just hit me; they "advised" me not remove the stickers to keep the watch new. I don't want to get into conspiracy theory here but I dont trust these guys anymore. The only issue is that they have my money now and I have to deal with it.

How do I assure that the new watch is really new though.

That is very strange that the store recommended keeping the stickers on the watch. Quite odd.

[singe89]

Originally Posted by APAP

How were the results? Compared to SS?

I didn't have a SS case for exact comparison.

Drop test: dropped 5 times and produced no noticeable dents. Note that these were just cases so the force would have been greater with movement, dial, case back, etc.

Conclusion: no big dents. There was one small one near the lug where the strap attaches. I would be more worried about the damage to the movement and crystal than the case. SS and gold would probably dent the same or easier if dropped from similar height. Ceramic probably wouldn't dent but could chip/shatter.

Fingernail scratch test: even with great force (finger nail bending) I couldn't get a noticeable mark on the exterior surface of the watch. However, on the internal edges (where movement is housed) I could scratch with moderate force and have black dust come off.

Conclusion: AP must treat the external surface to provide greater scratch resistance. If you get through the coating and get to the underlying fibers you can scratch particles off. I think this is the main problem with the FC bezels. Wear on the edges goes through the coating and exposes fibers. Carbon marbling affect still helps hide scratches.


Chemicals Test: I sprayed on simple green, windex, WD40, degreaser and cologne. I wear my FC diver daily so any of these things can be sprayed on the watch during daily use. Sprayed one on, let sit for 10 min, rinsed with water and looked for damage/discoloration then repeated with next.

Conclusion: no damage or discoloration.

All in all it wasn't a really scientific experiment but wanted to see if FC could stand up to daily wear. After 2 years of almost daily wear with my FC diver and a little testing I for one really like forged carbon as a case material for watches.

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by singe89

I didn't have a SS case for exact comparison.

Drop test: dropped 5 times and produced no noticeable dents. Note that these were just cases so the force would have been greater with movement, dial, case back, etc.

Conclusion: no big dents. There was one small one near the lug where the strap attaches. I would be more worried about the damage to the movement and crystal than the case. SS and gold would probably dent the same or easier if dropped from similar height. Ceramic probably wouldn't dent but could chip/shatter.

Fingernail scratch test: even with great force (finger nail bending) I couldn't get a noticeable mark on the exterior surface of the watch. However, on the internal edges (where movement is housed) I could scratch with moderate force and have black dust come off.

Conclusion: AP must treat the external surface to provide greater scratch resistance. If you get through the coating and get to the underlying fibers you can scratch particles off. I think this is the main problem with the FC bezels. Wear on the edges goes through the coating and exposes fibers. Carbon marbling affect still helps hide scratches.


Chemicals Test: I sprayed on simple green, windex, WD40, degreaser and cologne. I wear my FC diver daily so any of these things can be sprayed on the watch during daily use. Sprayed one on, let sit for 10 min, rinsed with water and looked for damage/discoloration then repeated with next.

Conclusion: no damage or discoloration.

All in all it wasn't a really scientific experiment but wanted to see if FC could stand up to daily wear. After 2 years of almost daily wear with my FC diver and a little testing I for one really like forged carbon as a case material for watches.

Interesting. Thanks for posting your observations.
My carbon fiber road and mountain bike frames are covered with paint, no naked carbon fibers seen. The carbon fiber wheels are too. I assume the paint is quite protective.

With forged carbon, my understanding is that there are not fibers (mixed with resin) per se, but small bits (or short fiber bits) of carbon (also mixed with resin). Hence the strength vectors are not aligned but multidirectional.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ech-department
With many parts of a bike frame, the linearity of strength in sheets of fibers can be helpful in designing the desired properties of flex in some directions while stiffness in others at a given point. But for certain areas of the bike frame, like the bottom bracket or head tube, perhaps equal strength in all directions would be preferable.
If forged carbon has the same strength in all directions, as would a metal such as steel or gold, and can be drilled, then it may be a better material for a watch case rather than carbon fiber which would be woven together or layered in sheets.
At least that's my rudimentary understanding of these type of composite materials. Note that I'm not a material sciences or mechanical engineer, but a just a physician, with an interest in how things are made and work.

[FightOnSC!]

Originally Posted by APAP

Finally managed to capture the chips clearly.

I took the watch back and they are ordering a new one for me.

Should I order the ceramic this time? It's too plain to my taste though. Really like FC. I guess I got a lemon and next one should be perfect. It will take a month to get here.

this sh*t happened on one of my FC piees on an edge and they told me "it's not a defect but user created damage" from APSC.

I had to pay for a new middle case.

now i'm kind of upset.

[APAP]

Originally Posted by FightOnSC!

this sh*t happened on one of my FC piees on an edge and they told me "it's not a defect but user created damage" from APSC.

I had to pay for a new middle case.

now i'm kind of upset.

I'm now confident that the AD sold me an already-damaged watch. I just had a second look at the photos. Good thing I took a zillion photos all the way from the AD to home to next day upon removing the stickers.

At AD. The dents are clearly shown in this pic.




Home next day with stickers on. This shows the stickers ripped where the watch was apparently hit.



Home next day with stickers off.






You guys see what I see right? How I didn't catch it on the spot there is beyond me. I'm now pissed like %#^$. What should I do?

[eonflux]

Yeah, that doesn't look right from the outset.
The AD is ordering a new one for you, correct?

[APAP]

Originally Posted by eonflux

Yeah, that doesn't look right from the outset.
The AD is ordering a new one for you, correct?

Yes but now I want my money back.

Is the above enough to report them to AP?

[APAP]

Guys, need advice here. Now the AD won't give me my money back until "AP confirms that they are taking the watch back". What kind of BS is this?

[DreambreaX]

You should write a letter and send to AP.

[WAK4]

Pretty sure AP will take care of you. Surprised AD wouldn't take back considering evidence it was damaged at time of sale.
I'd reach out to AP direct at this point and explain the situatIon,