possible red sub purchase ....info please !

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by Tudor66

Well I like it, but I am no expert on RedSubs. If his GMT looks this good I would buy both then you will have the a very good pair of vintage watches.

In my case of obtaining a RedSub, I found a seller who was a collector who kept all of the papers, receipts and tags for his Red, so the buying process was a little easier for me. In the end the seller of my watch selected me because I was very interested in learning about his watches.

I'll let others chime in here, but I think you'll be posting an incoming RedSub thread soon...!

i hope you are right about the incoming RED thread , i just really want to be sure .

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by AS1

Yeah, with the close-up I can say that the "SUBMARINER" looks like nothing I at least have seen before on a red sub.

The amount of serif on the "SUPERLATIVE CHRONOMETER OFFICIALLY CERTIFIED" also looks wrong to my eyes.

your killing my buzz here ! LOL i'm not throwing in the towel yet but i do see what you're seeing ! i appreciate the help and i am glad there are such knowledgeable people on here !

i wonder if the dial is refinished ?? in which case there is no way to know for sure if it started as a red !! correct ??

[Texican]

I'd be really careful about this one...While the serial number is definately in the Red Sub range (if that is the correct serial number, need to check the case) the dial may be a refinish at best...The red submariner print resembles most closely a mark V dial, but as mentioned there is too much serif on the white print on the bottom of the dial especially. Spacing between letters is off on most of the wording, etc. You can check out redseadeller.com, and the in the Red Sub section is shows the differances in the dials. If the rest of the watch is correct, and genuine Rolex..and you get it at a good price...you can with patience and a little money source a correct dial and might wind up with a nice piece.

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by Texican

I'd be really careful about this one...While the serial number is definately in the Red Sub range (if that is the correct serial number, need to check the case) the dial may be a refinish at best...The red submariner print resembles most closely a mark V dial, but as mentioned there is too much serif on the white print on the bottom of the dial especially. Spacing between letters is off on most of the wording, etc. You can check out redseadeller.com, and the in the Red Sub section is shows the differances in the dials. If the rest of the watch is correct, and genuine Rolex..and you get it at a good price...you can with patience and a little money source a correct dial and might wind up with a nice piece.

i hear ya !! he told me when i originally saw it that it was sent to RSC a few years ago , but i will ask him again and make sure he is not mistaken . he is not trying to sell this watch , he really does not want to sell and still may not sell it ! i am trying to push him in that direction ! he has no reason to BS me so if it is not legit ,he does not know and is not trying to make a sale on a questionable item . like i said he has owned it 15+ years and it was 30 years old when he bought it ! if it went to RSC and he has paperwork i will buy it , if not i will likely pass !

[minimerc]

Originally Posted by texican

i'd be really careful about this one...while the serial number is definately in the red sub range (if that is the correct serial number, need to check the case) the dial may be a refinish at best...the red submariner print resembles most closely a mark v dial, but as mentioned there is too much serif on the white print on the bottom of the dial especially. Spacing between letters is off on most of the wording, etc. You can check out redseadeller.com, and the in the red sub section is shows the differances in the dials. If the rest of the watch is correct, and genuine rolex..and you get it at a good price...you can with patience and a little money source a correct dial and might wind up with a nice piece.

+1

[Wing Zero]

The dial is suspect. The 6 looks closed like a Mk VI, but the F in FT placement is that of a Mk V
Look at the "S" in Submariner. It's comical.
Look at the placement of the "D" in Certified.

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by Wing Zero

The dial is suspect. The 6 looks closed like a Mk VI, but the F in FT placement is that of a Mk V
Look at the "S" in Submariner. It's comical.
Look at the placement of the "D" in Certified.

Yup I'm passing on it based on my research and the help of several people here on the forum ! Thank you all so much !

[George Spring]

Originally Posted by Hollywoodvillain

Yup I'm passing on it based on my research and the help of several people here on the forum ! Thank you all so much !

does that mean its not legit?

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by George Spring

does that mean its not legit?

Too many questions on the dial ! I found an exact match dial photo that is said to be a proven fake ! Long top "A" in Submariner and tight spacing ! Exaggerated serif in font on " superlative chronometer officially certified " text long hash mark on top of "L" in ROLEX , text lettering is all a little tightly squished , alignments of words are off , closed 6's in 660 like MK VI but serial # dates it MK III or MK IV era , etc . etc . just like this known fake dial photo found on net !

I believe whole heartedly that the current owner has no idea the dial is questionable , not even sure I I'll be able to tell him ! He is a genuine guy not unscrupulous in any way ! At the end of the day it's a damn nice 2.8 mill sub but I can't buy it even for white 1680 money knowing the dial is off! Again thank you to all the TRF members , and forum leaders very much ! I'd buy ya all a drink but it would bankrupt me !

[Wing Zero]

His story does not check out. It's very hard to believe that it passed RSC with that dial.
If he has reservations about selling it, I wouldn't push it any further.
Some people don't take bad news very well

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by Wing Zero

His story does not check out. It's very hard to believe that it passed RSC with that dial.
If he has reservations about selling it, I wouldn't push it any further.
Some people don't take bad news very well

I asked him again about the RSC and he said he thinks he sent this watch to them but would look for paper work as it may have been one of his others he sent to them ! He is a collector not a seller ( at this point ) and I was pushing him to sell he was not trying to sell ! I'm not going to push it any further ! And again, I in no way think he is being shady ! I believe He is just off in his recollection of which watches were sent in and when ! He will not likely find paperwork from RSC for this one and will surely tell me he must have been mistaken !

All good , I learned a lot and any day ya learn something is a good day !

[Vincent65]

^^ Although very rare, I would think RSCs have serviced watches with non-original dials before, unwittingly, of course.

[Hollywoodvillain]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

^^ Although very rare, I would think RSCs have serviced watches with non-original dials before, unwittingly, of course.

I believe that ! Some of these re-dials , it seems , are very convincing!

[etp095]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

^^ Although very rare, I would think RSCs have serviced watches with non-original dials before, unwittingly, of course.

I'm sure all the old timers that use to service these, when they were more common, and could spot a fake or redial, are long retired. So it may have slipped through the rsc, and gotten serviced.

[azguy]

With the additional pics, I don't like that dial print at all...