Big Incoming... OR Should I say "Big Crown" 6538 Incoming....

[SubKing]

Let me start out by giving a warm thank you to Jed, HL65, BeaumontMiller and A.Shear for their help and advise during this hunt of mine. Its a scary world out there with many not so honest pieces floating around these days.. Each and every day, vintage watch collecting becomes more and more popular, prices go up and up, the market gets more and more dry. So without the advise and expertise of these fine gentlemen, as well as the knowledge base here and on VRF in general, it would be much harder for me to discern between a good piece and a bad piece. The knowledge that is shared amongst dealers and collectors IMO is priceless and it would be hard for me to have this hobby without the collective of the vintage community. So I am very much appreciative.

Story:

In my opinion, the hobby of collecting vintage watches is so much different now, then it was 10 years ago when I started my love affair with vintage watches. When popularity rises, so does the price.. Many pieces that I used to own and used to be able to afford, I cannot afford anymore, due to the dramatic price increase of some vintage pieces and Not just rolex i'm speaking of..

It is very hard to come across an issue free watch, let alone an "original vintage watch". The term Original gets thrown around a lot these days, it seems to have different meanings to different people.

Owning a true Big crown James Bond reference rolex sub 6538 is something I have always wanted.

Over the past 8 years, (yes, 8 years...) I have been keeping my eye out for the right 6538. I will admit, in the beginning I was very picky with a high standard of what I was looking for. I would place WTB AD's on VRF and any pieces that were offered had one small issue or another that would turn me off of the piece.
Ebay was never really an option, because we all know what kind of 6538's pop up on ebay... i.e. "custom case and dial 6538's" hahaha..

So the years passed by and I bought other vintage and modern watches in between, but I always had my eye open for a 6538.

The more time that passed, the more the more I noticed the market drying up of nice examples, and the prices increasing on fixer uppers...

To explain the specific watch I was looking for was a Wearable 6538, not a safe queen. So for that reason, I wanted a mint condition 6538 with an early gilt tritium service dial and matching hand set. I wanted the case to still be decently thick and clean of corrosion and pitting (which is a common occurrence on these pieces.)

Another common problem with these early subs are with the coined bezels on reference 5508's, 6536, 6538, 5510 etc, is that they are prone to breaking or being worn out and the bezel can no longer hold a true pressure fit of the insert.. So when I see a 6538 with the insert sticking out of the bezel like it was going to fall out, it would turn me off.

There was always something that stopped me from pulling the trigger.. My days of buying fixer uppers is long gone.. Parts are pretty much non existent these days for these watches, it's hard enough to find the watch... So I knew I had to pull the trigger on a watch that I would be completely satisfied with as it was.

More time passed and then I started lowering my standards. I told myself, "ok, maybe it doesn't have to be a gilt service dial, I will be ok with a white tritium service dial" (which came right after production of the gilt service dials..) Maybe some corrosion and pitting is fine, minor case repair is acceptable, worn bezel is ok, I just wanted a watch!

Still nothing. I would contact and bother collectors frequently asking them if they want to part with their 6538 and the answer was always no.

Fast forward to the last 11 months.. I was sick over how bad a wanted a BC Sub.. I started reaching out to collectors on Instagram offering to buy their piece and again the answer was always no. I would frequently check with the best vintage dealers out there and the answer was always "sorry, don't know of any"

One dealer knew of 1 piece but it was an original gilt and the price was something like over 150k... I obviously don't have that budget on 1 watch, unless I liquidated some of my other pieces, which is not an option. I didn't want a safe queen. I wanted something I could wear and enjoy but at the same time, condition was paramount.

When I told one dealer what I was looking for, his response to me was "who isn't looking for a piece like that!"

I then knew I had to come to the realization that my chances of finding a 6538 were slim.

the last few months, there was a 5510 that was in incredible serviced condition that was offered to me.. I mean incredible. The only thing was, it was a 5510 and not a 6538.. I know many will say its practically the same watch, aside from the later production period and different movement, its the same.

Problem was, I wanted the exact James bond reference... the 5510 is incredibly rare with its very short production run, but it isn't the Bond reference.

I took 5 days too long to think about it and it was sold that fast.. When I contacted the dealer back, it was too late. I told myself I guess it wasn't meant to be. But at the end of the day, If I am going to spend this kind of money, it should be on what my heart was really set on, not to settle for something different just because I want to put an end to the hunt...

I was absolutely sick over losing the 5510 deal. I really thought I would never find one again..

I placed more WTB AD's on VRF after and only the same two that have been offered to me over the years, were offered again, but those pieces either had a part or two that were not original, or condition was an issue..

Just 2 weeks ago I almost purchase a 6538 from a dealer overseas (not a very well known dealer) and thanks to VRF, they confirmed my suspicions about the dial on that particular piece to be fake.. I dodged a bullet with that one.

fast forward to today.

A dealer I been keeping in contact with, had one privately that was not uploaded on his inventory list of watches.

This 6538 had a white tritium service dial in immaculate condition, the patina was awesome. The bezel was all there and strong. The insert is gorgous faded mk2 kissing 40. The tritium hands match the dial and even more important, free of any cracks (which drive me crazy).

the case is polished of course, the watch is from 1958 after all, who knows the stories this piece has... But the case and lugs are thick and has not been overly polished.. So a nice chamfer can be cut and the case can be restored to OEM spec (which I plan to have done as soon as I enjoy the watch for a bit). I will send it off to LA Watch Works for the case detail...

The 1030 movement is super clean and running +3 sec a day which we both thought is pretty good for a 1030 movement...

No pitting or corrosion anywhere on the watch, which I have not seen in a long time. Watch has obviously been kept in super dry environments for its life...

Every vintage piece has its quirks, For me, the quirk on this piece is the reference number. The 6538 engraving between the lugs is half worn off from bracelet rubbing over the years, but you can still make out the half that is there.
The serial number on the other side is still clearly visible 426xxx

Original brevet crown is still intact and in fine condition..

After a little detail, the domed crystal is now immaculate.

This watch will never see a bracelet. I thought about sourcing a rivet brand, but what's the point? This watch belongs on a nato period.

The only thing that I am replacing is a new creamy tritium pearl that has already been sourced and on its way to me.. the pearl currently on the bezel has a slight crack and being the perfectionist I am, that won't do.

So that's my long story. I enjoyed telling it and I hope you enjoyed reading about my journey.

I almost gave up, but glad I didn't.. Everything happened for a reason. I am now glad to say I don't have to look any more.

Below are some pics I shot today. I took a couple next to my 116610LN sub for a size comparison.

Also took some shots in natural sun light to show off the perfectly preserved condition of the dial.

Already strapped on a phoenix grey nato. I of course had to order some more phoenix nato straps both in James Bond stripes in both 18mm and 20mm sizes.

SO, without further ado.....

[SubKing]

nt

[Michael M.]

Congrats! Really enjoyed reading your story.

Wear it in good health my friend!

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by Michael M.

Congrats! Really enjoyed reading your story.

Wear it in good health my friend!

Thank you Michael!

[onthedial]

@SubKing
What a wonderfully written story, there's so much there to enjoy.

On a regular basis I speak to art collectors who basically express the same things you did regarding the obsessive hunt for the Ref. 6538. Collecting is truly, truly a passion, and in many ways it defies language in that it's nearly impossible to make sense of it even to one's self, let alone explaining it to a non-collector.

So now that you've finally acquired your ultimate grail, what's next?!
_______
Instagram: @onthedial

[traf]

Huge congrats that's a beautiful piece! Enjoyed going along the journey with you


Sent from my  iPhone 7 using Tapatalk

[droptopman]

Great story and big congratulations
I thought I had it rough when it took 2 years to find a 1966 Bart. It takes some serious work and patience to land a special reference.
Beautiful watch!

[roll9]

Thanks for telling us the whole story. That is a great set up on the grey nato.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by onthedial

@SubKing
What a wonderfully written story, there's so much there to enjoy.

On a regular basis I speak to art collectors who basically express the same things you did it regarding the obsessive hunt for the Ref. 6538. Collecting is truly, truly a passion, and in many ways it defies language in that it's nearly impossible to make sense of it even to one's self, let alone explaining it to a non-collector.

So now that you've finally acquired your ultimate grail, what's next?!
_______
Instagram: @onthedial

Thank you so much! Unless you have endless contacts and are willing to travel the world searching for these pieces like most vintage dealers do, it really does get obsessive and dragged out waiting for the handful of vintage dealers you trust to come across what you're looking for. Sometimes it never comes, some times it does. Just depends on timing and a bit of luck to be honest.

Originally Posted by traf

Huge congrats that's a beautiful piece! Enjoyed going along the journey with you


Sent from my  iPhone 7 using Tapatalk

thank you so much!

Originally Posted by droptopman

Great story and big congratulations
I thought I had it rough when it took 2 years to find a 1966 Bart. It takes some serious work and patience to land a special reference.
Beautiful watch!

I feel your pain, but in the end, i'm sure once you landed your Bart sub, it was the best feeling and so rewarding. Makes you appreciate it that much more once you get it. But the market is seriously dried up for certain references.. It's becoming so hard and expensive to find certain pieces with high standards, it almost takes the fun out of the hobby, all the frustration and disappointment alone over time can be a bit much.

Originally Posted by roll9

Thanks for telling us the whole story. That is a great set up on the grey nato.

Thank you! I thought the grey nato complimented the faded insert.

[greekbum]

Nice story and nice watch enjoy it and wear it in good health.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by greekbum

Nice story and nice watch enjoy it and wear it in good health.

Thank you my friend!

[rootbeer7]

beautiful piece, incredible patience and stunning result. Wear in good health.

[waspy1]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Let me start out by giving a warm thank you to Jed, HL65, BeaumontMiller and A.Shear for their help and advise during this hunt of mine. Its a scary world out there with many not so honest pieces floating around these days.. Each and every day, vintage watch collecting becomes more and more popular, prices go up and up, the market gets more and more dry. So without the advise and expertise of these fine gentlemen, as well as the knowledge base here and on VRF in general, it would be much harder for me to discern between a good piece and a bad piece. The knowledge that is shared amongst dealers and collectors IMO is priceless and it would be hard for me to have this hobby without the collective of the vintage community. So I am very much appreciative.

Story:

In my opinion, the hobby of collecting vintage watches is so much different now, then it was 10 years ago when I started my love affair with vintage watches. When popularity rises, so does the price.. Many pieces that I used to own and used to be able to afford, I cannot afford anymore, due to the dramatic price increase of some vintage pieces and Not just rolex i'm speaking of..

It is very hard to come across an issue free watch, let alone an "original vintage watch". The term Original gets thrown around a lot these days, it seems to have different meanings to different people.

Owning a true Big crown James Bond reference rolex sub 6538 is something I have always wanted.

Over the past 8 years, (yes, 8 years...) I have been keeping my eye out for the right 6538. I will admit, in the beginning I was very picky with a high standard of what I was looking for. I would place WTB AD's on VRF and any pieces that were offered had one small issue or another that would turn me off of the piece.
Ebay was never really an option, because we all know what kind of 6538's pop up on ebay... i.e. "custom case and dial 6538's" hahaha..

So the years passed by and I bought other vintage and modern watches in between, but I always had my eye open for a 6538.

The more time that passed, the more the more I noticed the market drying up of nice examples, and the prices increasing on fixer uppers...

To explain the specific watch I was looking for was a Wearable 6538, not a safe queen. So for that reason, I wanted a mint condition 6538 with an early gilt tritium service dial and matching hand set. I wanted the case to still be decently thick and clean of corrosion and pitting (which is a common occurrence on these pieces.)

Another common problem with these early subs are with the coined bezels on reference 5508's, 6536, 6538, 5510 etc, is that they are prone to breaking or being worn out and the bezel can no longer hold a true pressure fit of the insert.. So when I see a 6538 with the insert sticking out of the bezel like it was going to fall out, it would turn me off.

There was always something that stopped me from pulling the trigger.. My days of buying fixer uppers is long gone.. Parts are pretty much non existent these days for these watches, it's hard enough to find the watch... So I knew I had to pull the trigger on a watch that I would be completely satisfied with as it was.

More time passed and then I started lowering my standards. I told myself, "ok, maybe it doesn't have to be a gilt service dial, I will be ok with a white tritium service dial" (which came right after production of the gilt service dials..) Maybe some corrosion and pitting is fine, minor case repair is acceptable, worn bezel is ok, I just wanted a watch!

Still nothing. I would contact and bother collectors frequently asking them if they want to part with their 6538 and the answer was always no.

Fast forward to the last 11 months.. I was sick over how bad a wanted a BC Sub.. I started reaching out to collectors on Instagram offering to buy their piece and again the answer was always no. I would frequently check with the best vintage dealers out there and the answer was always "sorry, don't know of any"

One dealer knew of 1 piece but it was an original gilt and the price was something like over 150k... I obviously don't have that budget on 1 watch, unless I liquidated some of my other pieces, which is not an option. I didn't want a safe queen. I wanted something I could wear and enjoy but at the same time, condition was paramount.

When I told one dealer what I was looking for, his response to me was "who isn't looking for a piece like that!"

I then knew I had to come to the realization that my chances of finding a 6538 were slim.

the last few months, there was a 5510 that was in incredible serviced condition that was offered to me.. I mean incredible. The only thing was, it was a 5510 and not a 6538.. I know many will say its practically the same watch, aside from the later production period and different movement, its the same.

Problem was, I wanted the exact James bond reference... the 5510 is incredibly rare with its very short production run, but it isn't the Bond reference.

I took 5 days too long to think about it and it was sold that fast.. When I contacted the dealer back, it was too late. I told myself I guess it wasn't meant to be. But at the end of the day, If I am going to spend this kind of money, it should be on what my heart was really set on, not to settle for something different just because I want to put an end to the hunt...

I was absolutely sick over losing the 5510 deal. I really thought I would never find one again..

I placed more WTB AD's on VRF after and only the same two that have been offered to me over the years, were offered again, but those pieces either had a part or two that were not original, or condition was an issue..

Just 2 weeks ago I almost purchase a 6538 from a dealer overseas (not a very well known dealer) and thanks to VRF, they confirmed my suspicions about the dial on that particular piece to be fake.. I dodged a bullet with that one.

fast forward to today.

A dealer I been keeping in contact with, had one privately that was not uploaded on his inventory list of watches.

This 6538 had a white tritium service dial in immaculate condition, the patina was awesome. The bezel was all there and strong. The insert is gorgous faded mk2 kissing 40. The tritium hands match the dial and even more important, free of any cracks (which drive me crazy).

the case is polished of course, the watch is from 1958 after all, who knows the stories this piece has... But the case and lugs are thick and has not been overly polished.. So a nice chamfer can be cut and the case can be restored to OEM spec (which I plan to have done as soon as I enjoy the watch for a bit). I will send it off to LA Watch Works for the case detail...

The 1030 movement is super clean and running +3 sec a day which we both thought is pretty good for a 1030 movement...

No pitting or corrosion anywhere on the watch, which I have not seen in a long time. Watch has obviously been kept in super dry environments for its life...

Every vintage piece has its quirks, For me, the quirk on this piece is the reference number. The 6538 engraving between the lugs is half worn off from bracelet rubbing over the years, but you can still make out the half that is there.
The serial number on the other side is still clearly visible 426xxx

Original brevet crown is still intact and in fine condition..

After a little detail, the domed crystal is now immaculate.

This watch will never see a bracelet. I thought about sourcing a rivet brand, but what's the point? This watch belongs on a nato period.

The only thing that I am replacing is a new creamy tritium pearl that has already been sourced and on its way to me.. the pearl currently on the bezel has a slight crack and being the perfectionist I am, that won't do.

So that's my long story. I enjoyed telling it and I hope you enjoyed reading about my journey.

I almost gave up, but glad I didn't.. Everything happened for a reason. I am now glad to say I don't have to look any more.

Below are some pics I shot today. I took a couple next to my 116610LN sub for a size comparison.

Also took some shots in natural sun light to show off the perfectly preserved condition of the dial.

Already strapped on a phoenix grey nato. I of course had to order some more phoenix nato straps both in James Bond stripes in both 18mm and 20mm sizes.

SO, without further ado.....

Nice story! Glad you got there in the end and didn't settle for less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

beautiful piece, incredible patience and stunning result. Wear in good health.

thank you for the kind words.

Originally Posted by waspy1

Nice story! Glad you got there in the end and didn't settle for less.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In the end, to heal my broken heart over the 5510 deal I lost, I thought I was going to have to settle for anything I could find. It's a terrible feeling because you get so involved when so much time is spent and you feel like you have gotten no where after years of trying..

[SubKing]

You know, it's funny. I don't know if any of you get the same feeling when you finally get a watch you been obsessing over for so long, it seems so much smaller in person as soon as you open the package..

All these years of viewing them on the net in blown up pictures, it's amazing how small the watch truly is. It wears more tiny than I thought it would.. I mean I have owned 5508's in the past, but over time, you forget how small watches ran back in the 50's.. Smaller than 1680's... It's amazing how much difference 1mm makes between watch model sizes..

The 6538 is 1mm larger in case size than a 5508, but the 6538 is 1mm smaller than a 1680 sub.

[dysondiver]

stunning watch , health to enjoy ,,,

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Great story. Thanks for sharing your journey.

And yes, I do think half the fun is the chase

[theflywrist]

Amazing! Enjoyed the story, and I am very glad that you stayed patient and got what you were after!!
Wear in best health buddy.

[Jfullm42]

Great story! Love the chase... now what's next
But seriously you are stronger than I am, congrats on waiting for the right piece for you!

[crowncollection]

Well done a great voice and worth the wait


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snow-Dweller]

I'm not a vintage expert....but that's a beautiful watch. Congratulations. Enjoy it.

[jdmi32]

Very nice read. Persistence and patience almost always pays off.

[exador]

Case is a little over polished for my liking.

[fusionstorm]

Congratulations! Your story is to me a testament that "the harder you work, the luckier you get". Your persistence definitely paid off!

[MorningTundra]

Heart warming and inspiring story. And you get the girl in the end! Beautiful piece. Thanks for sharing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[49ers101hitters]

I like your choice of font

[Bruce G]

Bravo!

[Dries]

Big Congrats and great story
Awesome BC
Enjoy it and wear it in good health

[soundserious]

Congrats! Special one

[JimSnyder]

Congratulations