Help! Vintage Rolex oyster 4070

[maxxreiner]

Hi all, I just purchased this Rolex oyster chronometer ref 4070. I do not know much about the item and would love some information on the model, along with if it looks to be original and if anyone has seen what these models tend to go for value wise.

Any sort of information will help as I have been unable to find anything.
Thanks!
Maxx

[maxxreiner]

Another photo

[maxxreiner]

Inside case back

[maxxreiner]

Back case reads 208156

[onthedial]

@maxxreiner
It's not often that you see one of these, and it's hard to establish a market value because there aren't many documented sales. I trust that you purchased it at a price you were happy with?!
My only knowledge of this Ref # is that it was frequently issued to military personnel.
__________
Instagram: @onthedial

[Latrodectus]

[QUOTE=onthedial;7040097]

[MILGAUSS88]

WWII watch. Serial dates to 1942. Boys size. Probably 28mm.
Similar to a Speedking.
Value 646.25.
Plus shipping.

[R.W.T.]

Well....you have some issues and a rather strange watch there.

It's gold filled...which RARELY would have a Chronometer movement. I can't read what the bridge says. Adjusted to ? positions. Does that say ONE position? That's a VERY rare movement if it says that. I've been playing with these for 30+ years and I've serviced HUNDREDS of 30s-40s Rolex and I've never seen ONE position yet. That is NOT a chronometer movement. Chronometer movements in those days are 6 positions, 7 positions, 8 ways etc. One position is...just above unadjusted. Can you get a better shot?

The strange thing is, it has the micro regulator....very odd.

That being said...your dial has been refinished. That's a big hurt money wise.

The watch is a sweep seconds version of the calibre 700 or rather calibre 710.

You are missing the sweep seconds hand, pinion, drive wheel, and tension spring.

What did you pay? If you would like to answer that off board PM me.

I can probably help get it going for you with the parts if you need.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

What did you pay?

I already let that cat out of the bag.
Photos are from the auction house.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

That being said...your dial has been refinished.

??????
Why do you say that? It looks legit to me.
A. Lume is burnt out, and excessive wear on center indicating age.
B. Second markers are straight as a pin with no bleeding.
C. Font is correct with no bleeding as well.

If it was a redial, it would have had to be an old one, and every old redial, (and a lot of the new ones), I have seen look like they are done with crayons, they are so muddled.

Am I missing something?

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

??????
Why do you say that? It looks legit to me.
A. Lume is burnt out, and excessive wear on center indicating age.
B. Second markers are straight as a pin with no bleeding.
C. Font is correct with no bleeding as well.

If it was a redial, it would have had to be an old one, and every old redial, (and a lot of the new ones), I have seen look like they are done with crayons, they are so muddled.

Am I missing something?

SWISS MADE anywhere?

CHRONOMETER font is funky. Dial doesn't go on the watch if so because adjusted to ONE position is NOT chronometer...that's the biggest clue right there. Minute track not aligned with the 6 o'clock marker. Crown logo is pretty much wrong for the year. Should be quite short and fat.

[MILGAUSS88]

OK here is my argument for. I like having a healthy discussion so....

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

SWISS MADE anywhere?

Often hidden under bezel, or curve of crystal, or rubbed off.

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

CHRONOMETER font is funky.

Looks like oil leaked from the center or a blemish in the crystal to me. Only funky part I saw was the "T".

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Dial doesn't go on the watch if so because adjusted to ONE position is NOT chronometer...that's the biggest clue right there.

Absolutely agree that the dial does not go with this watch. But that does not mean that it is refinished. It came from a watch repairman, and I think he probably cobbled it together.

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Minute track not aligned with the 6 o'clock marker.

The quality control on early Rolexes, especially these midsize ones, was not stellar.

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Crown logo is pretty much wrong for the year. Should be quite short and fat.

As we both agree that the Chronometer dial is incorrect for this watch, that means the dial could have been produced a different year than the watch.

I judge dials by
A. Clarity in print, which this has.
B. Appropriate patina. Check again.
C. Context. This isn't a Paul Newman dial and it just is not financially feasible to make perfect dial for a $600 watch.

Although I always do look for the "Swiss" mark, I have seen fake dials with Swiss, and authentic dials without it. (Not all models, so no one needs to bring up specific examples.)

Early refinished dials were just crap. It literally looked like the bleeding you would see from watercolor paints on a piece of paper.
So, when I see a dial like this that has clarity, patina and appropriate context.
I dont care if it does not say Swiss, it could have been a bad day at the factory, it could have been scraped, it could have flaked off.

I do enjoy a good debate, and I hope you do as well, even if we dont agree, in the end.

[R.W.T.]

Okay.

I'll have the watch in hand shortly probably and we can go from there.

No dials that are original print exist that don't have Swiss nomenclature in some form in my opinion.

To believe that I would need written evidence of such from Rolex.

There is no reason in the world for them to exist. Why would they put Swiss on them in the first place if they were going to make some that they didn't?

That simply doesn't make any sense at all and I have it on pretty good authority that it never happened.