Rolex gmt master 2 cal.3186

[roquecalleja]

What can you tell me about the old gmt master 2 m series with cal 3186 like the ceramic gmt? Do you think this is going to be a collectors watch? Do you think its going to increase its price in the short tem? Thank you

[padi56]

Originally Posted by roquecalleja

What can you tell me about the old gmt master 2 m series with cal 3186 like the ceramic gmt? Do you think this is going to be a collectors watch? Do you think its going to increase its price in the short tem? Thank you

Would doubt it why would it be a collectors watch the 3186 is only a very slightly modified 3185 and there must be thousands of them around.

[gone-rolex-mad]

Agree!

[Tools]

I think that in the short term, there are a lot of speculators and dealers telling buyers right now that the 3186 is going to be the "one to have" as a collector piece.

In the long term, I think they are wrong... The GMT has had a number of different movement changes throughout it's history, and there is not a single case where the movement is a paramount consideration in their "collectibility".

And, as Peter says, there is nothing significantly different in the 3186 over the 3185... it's function is exactly the same.

I don't think that it even rises to the level of a "transitional", because there is nothing transitional about it.... It's just the latest production movement fitted to the surplus cases to deplete the inventory of 16710's.

[DSJ]

My question is: has anyone seen a V 16710?

[Mandrake]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with previous comments, and not because I have one (that was a coincidence), but taking into consideration the enormous difference in prices from 2 almost identical watches, because of small differences in the dial (open six, "submariner" in red, white dial Pan-Am 1675, etc...), my guess is that what matters in order to be collectible or not is the short run of that "anormallity" produced in a particular period...and 16710 with 3186 movement may be there are thousands around, but not many tens of thousands, just a few..but only time will tell.

Regards
Carlos

[clock]

http://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.htm The name of this article is A Modern Rolex Anomaly and explains the differences in movements between the 3185 and 3186 and an interesting read.

I am on the fence about whether the 16710 with the updated 3186 caliber will become collectible. Since the newer movement has the advantage of the Parachrom Blu hairspring and relatively small numbers were produced might make this sought after in years ahead.

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by Mandrake

I'm afraid I have to disagree with previous comments, and not because I have one (that was a coincidence), but taking into consideration the enormous difference in prices from 2 almost identical watches, because of small differences in the dial (open six, "submariner" in red, white dial Pan-Am 1675, etc...), my guess is that what matters in order to be collectible or not is the short run of that "anormallity" produced in a particular period...and 16710 with 3186 movement may be there are thousands around, but not many tens of thousands, just a few..but only time will tell.

Regards
Carlos

Carlos, I hate to agree with the posts above you but I do 100%. Those poor folks who paid more for their GMT II's with the 3186 fell for the hype and IMHO, got hosed. By no means will the stick dial (which by the way has been made for years in large numbers), or a very slightly modified movement be worth anything to future collectors. There has been so much false hype surrounding these watches, I feel sorry for anyone who paid over MSRP, it will take decades to catch up with the guys who got discounts on Z serial roman dialed GMT II's with the 3185.

[clock]

Was the latest list price for the 16710 5.7K?
I paid $5K for a LNIB M series.

Perhaps you're correct as most Rolex watches that have significantly increased in value were based on dial changes that had a small production run.

[Mandrake]

Originally Posted by clock

Was the latest list price for the 16710 5.7K?
I paid $5K for a LNIB M series.

I paid even less for mine, directly bought from AD (M series 3186 inside)

[jnewell]

If the price ever does skyrocket, you will see lots of late-serial GMTII/3185 watches with swapped-out 3186 movements, I predict...

[Tools]

It seems to me, with all the 3186 movement 16710's we see on the forum and others, there must be quite a few of them on the market..

And we have seen these movements in the stick marker GMT's, the square, and the Roman dials too..

That tells me that there are fewer stick dialed GMT's out there than there are 3186 movements...

Therefore, the stick dial will be more valuable in the future than any movement change..

[Porsche]

I have proposed this before, but I think most collectors (and speculators) are only interested when you can easily "see" the difference without pulling the back off a watch. Eg. double-reds etc.

If you need to open a watch to prove it's rarity, it all becomes a bit hard, o only true WIS's will give a hoot.

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by Porsche

I have proposed this before, but I think most collectors (and speculators) are only interested when you can easily "see" the difference without pulling the back off a watch. Eg. double-reds etc.

If you need to open a watch to prove it's rarity, it all becomes a bit hard, o only true WIS's will give a hoot.

Except for the Zenith Daytona.

[RossInIllinois]

Originally Posted by clock

http://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.htm The name of this article is A Modern Rolex Anomaly and explains the differences in movements between the 3185 and 3186 and an interesting read.

I am on the fence about whether the 16710 with the updated 3186 caliber will become collectible. Since the newer movement has the advantage of the Parachrom Blu hairspring and relatively small numbers were produced might make this sought after in years ahead.

At what S/N letter did they start using the 3186 movement?? 2005?

[gmtobsessed]

Originally Posted by RossInIllinois

At what S/N letter did they start using the 3186 movement?? 2005?

Z7 or Z8 from what I know

[gmtobsessed]

Originally Posted by karmatp

Carlos, I hate to agree with the posts above you but I do 100%. Those poor folks who paid more for their GMT II's with the 3186 fell for the hype and IMHO, got hosed. By no means will the stick dial (which by the way has been made for years in large numbers), or a very slightly modified movement be worth anything to future collectors. There has been so much false hype surrounding these watches, I feel sorry for anyone who paid over MSRP, it will take decades to catch up with the guys who got discounts on Z serial roman dialed GMT II's with the 3185.

3186 movt is a bonus for me, because bnib M GMT from US TRF member is cheaper than Z GMT from local AD here (when the AU$ stonger)

[VDENTALS]

How about the m with sticks?

[Mrdi]

All of the M's are 3186
Last of the "old" GMTs
I like the idea of having the last run of a series.
The only individuals who care are myself and
the participants on the forum who exchange this banter for the
sake of entertainment.

[Andad]

x2

[MrCowboy99]

Ok, take a step back and look at this.

1. Why we even still talking about this? Seems if noone cares this topic would not continue to arise.

2. Look at what the market is for these 3186 in 16710s. As you can see people time after time are selling these at a premium. Whether you agree to it or not, they are selling them at a premium. Now comes the question, are people buying them? I assume so because I dont see them relisted time and time again when a watch doesnt move.

So, in my opinion, whether you say yes they are collectable or not, their is a premium market put on them, but as we all know, wear the watch to enjoy it and not to collect it. This one is just a case where you might make a little extra over time.

[jnewell]

Originally Posted by Tools

That tells me that there are fewer stick dialed GMT's out there than there are 3186 movements...

Therefore, the stick dial will be more valuable in the future than any movement change..

Interesting...

My 16710 has the stick font "II" but the 3185 movement.

[Randy]

Reality, many people are willing to pay a premium for M serial GMT watches.
Time will tell.

[Tools]

Here is some reality..

Explorer II's come with the 3186.....right now....

If you want a 3186 in your GMT, get an EXP II and swap the movements...

[Randy]

Reality, M serial will have 3186 movement and most buyers do not want the hassle of opening watch.
M serial GMT's will command premiums

[HDHNTER]

Originally Posted by Mrdi

All of the M's are 3186
Last of the "old" GMTs
I like the idea of having the last run of a series.
The only individuals who care are myself and
the participants on the forum who exchange this banter for the
sake of entertainment.

What he said.

[AL7273]

Originally Posted by HDHNTER

What he said.

I agree with what they said.

Also, I like the fact that whenever I go into a Rolex store--be it Moscow, Hong Kong or Dubai--the people behind the counter always raise their eyebrows at my GMT ii with the 3186. I don't think they are as common in the ROW (rest of world) as they are in the US.

The pepsi cola is finished. Done. No mas. I consider my good fortune that I have one with the 3186 movement. It reminds me of that scene in Mad Max when they give him his new police car, 'last of the V-8s'.

(also, i love the GMT function....don't know how i lived without it before)

[clock]

Some may know Mayor's Jewelers which has tons of stores throughout Florida.

I was there 2 times during this week to compare my GMTII M series with the ceramic one.

When I told the sales person I had a the d/c'd GMT, she told me not to sell it and there's no more in the company.

The second time I was in, an older sales person also told me to hang onto my GMT. She said last summer, many Europeans (especially those from Germany) bought all the GMT's; some bought 2 or three. Again she said the company doesn't have any left.

Are there any Europeans here that can comment on the interest in the M series GMT?

[boyet]

Speculators, I hate to admit, but I'm one of them.
I really like to collect Subs and Gmts if poissible all models(that is if I have the resources). I tried to get my hands on an M serial 3186 stick, but price is too damn high ended up a SS GMT2c, still with 3186 at 8% less on MSRP 3 weeks ago when I was in Hong Kong. . .
Here is a pic of my 1675 1.9 mil serial and my 16710 U serial . . . .

pic is not so good, but think it'll do