Thoughts on a 1675 gilt

[DSplash]

Hi there!

I have the opportunity to get this late gilt 1675.
From what I see on the pictures, it all looks great and matching but I’m far from being as knowledgeable as some of you here
I’m very picky about originality (even if I’m aware pictures can’t replace seeing the watch in person!). If I end up finding something isn’t coherent, I know I’ll end up tired of the watch...
The seller seems professional but I’ve never done business with him (yet) so...

Any thoughts on this?



Thanks a lot!


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[mineral]

The faded insert is correct for late gilt dial gmt, I have one similar like yours. Is it 1.0 mil serial range?

It looks like in pretty good shape too.

I look forward to hear and learn from other experts on this watch.

The good example of gilt gmt is getting difficult to come by nowadays.


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[DSplash]

Me too :)


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[waspy1]

Looks excellent, can’t see any issues except for the date disc which looks rather white. An easy change. Do the hands and dial still glow briefly? They should. I’d jump on it.


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[watchcrank]

Looks very nice from scans although some macros of case and case back would help.
Date wheel in that era does look white not silver imho.

[DSplash]

I need to see the date wheel, should be a white hooked 7 I think...
Also check if the hands are flat or curved although I’d very much like to see a picture of an example of this difference if someone has that in stock
The watch is priced quite high so I don’t want to make a wrong move




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[Tom1675]

In the last picture I cant read the caseback and the watch is on a leather strap, why? Confirm the caseback stamp and also get some additional pics of the bracelet and clasp. Also get pics that show each lume plot...

[DSplash]

Thanks!
How do the hands look to you? Is there a way to see if they are gilt matching ones from the pictures?


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[waspy1]

The hands look correct. Check if they glow, likewise check the dial glows. They should both react similarly.


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[DSplash]

I will see it in person next week. I’ll take a binocular and a UV light with me
I also have a nice short video with the watch in hand but can’t upload it here...

The seller is asking about 39k$, does it seem reasonable for a very nice example considering everything checks out (and I have a buyer’s remorse possibility in case it doesn’t).
It seems a bit much compared to the ones I usually see but most are far from being that nice so...

Thanks for the help!


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[DSplash]

This watch is from the 1st quarter of 66.
From that period, are original hands still supposed to be flat or curved?
I read that they changed around that period but am not sure :)

Thanks!


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[Dr.Smellody]

Love it! I'm sure someone will come along and say this 53 year old watch is probably polished and some nuance isn't correct.... to the end, I say, "get on my wrist!"

[DSplash]

I saw it completely opened in front of me yesterday!
The caseback stamp is I66. It has a xx marking (service declined)
The bracelet is a C&I with unlabeled end links (us watch) stamped I70

The dial is superb with one tiny stain at 5 barely visible without the loupe (but that’s my main concern ):


Apparently, it seems to be a small oil stain and there is nothing to do about it...
The indexes are very even and glow under UV light evenly. The hands don’t glow anymore (as on 2 of my other watches I tried the uv on)

The watchmaker I saw it with told me he thinks the hands (except the 24hr one, a little darker btw) were relumed (probably a long time ago but not very well) or changed ( maybe too clean with no corrosion). He offered me 2 choices at first :
- keep them as is
- remove the lume and relume them with matching old tritium but do it better

Then, as we were talking about technical details, he pulled out a box full of old hands to see what he had in stock from that era (all kinds, in little compartments, with some Fiedler pouches barely opened, ).
We found a set, with the tritium matching more the indexes (in color and texture with the loupe) but also a little more corroded by 50+ yrs of radioactivity...He told me he could also swap them if I wanted
Here are the hands the watch came with :

Here too next to the dial. In the other compartment sticked to a green pad are probably even older ones we tried but very very corroded :

And the third one that seemed to be the most matching :


What do you think?

The insert is a red back a little corroded, probably original to the watch in his opinion :


The case seems very clean. (Forgot to take pictures of it with everything out :/)




The movement was very clean too with no corrosion. It will need cleaning (as the rest of the watch!) and servicing though and the watchmaker, who seems really competent and knowledgeable by the way, offered me to assist in the process if I was interested!

I kinda want to take it now
...Even though that stain m, as tiny as it may be, bugs me :/
Opinions? :)

Thanks for reading and sorry for the bad pictures, I only had my old iPhone with me...





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[DSplash]

Oh and the dial is a Singer :)

Everything still seems legit to you? What should I do with the hands?



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[Sky21]

The oil stain would not bother me personally, but you are about to spend nearly 40k so you really need to decide if it will bother you. If you decide to flip the watch you may have some difficulty getting all of your money back at that price point. I like the look of the period correct, more corroded hands, and I think they will give the watch a more accurate appearance. Whatever you decide to do, I think a gilt GMT Master is almost always a good buy if you have the funds.

[swish77]

Personally, for $40K or thereabouts, I'd want an all-original trouble-free example. I wouldn't want to deal with the hands issue, and if they were replaced, it would always bug me knowing they weren't original to the watch.

Discolored patina, minor age/wear marks on the dial, I could live with that to a certain degree. The watch is more than 50 years old. It ain't gonna be perfect! However, I'd still want the original hands, with original lume that matched the patina on the dial. Maybe that's just me.

I once had a well-known dealer who's quite active on this forum scold me because I passed on a watch for a similar issue. He said, "You can always relume or color-match the hands. People do it all of the time. Why does it matter?" Well, it does matter. Who wants that, unless the price was just so good you could justify it.

Good luck either way.

[DSplash]

Originally Posted by Sky21

The oil stain would not bother me personally, but you are about to spend nearly 40k so you really need to decide if it will bother you. If you decide to flip the watch you may have some difficulty getting all of your money back at that price point. I like the look of the period correct, more corroded hands, and I think they will give the watch a more accurate appearance. Whatever you decide to do, I think a gilt GMT Master is almost always a good buy if you have the funds.

Yes, it might end up bothering me if I cher fixated on this but the rest is very nice!
And I don’t really care if the hands came originally with the watch as long as if they could have. I’d hate any later replacement part but if the hands are exactly what the originals should be, it’s fine with me (you never know anyway if something hasn’t been swapped xx years ago).
I also realized that very nice gilt can’t be a bad bet and if I find an even better one someday, I’ll always be able to sell this one and upgrade (or maybe I’ll be too attached to this one by then and I won’t ). So in the mean time, why not appreciate this beauty



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[DSplash]

Yes, the stain might end up bothering me if I cher fixated on this but the rest is very nice!

And I don’t really care if the hands came originally with the watch as long as if they could have. I’d hate any later replacement part but if the hands are exactly what the originals should be, it’s fine with me (you never know anyway if something hasn’t been swapped xx years ago).
It’s interesting how each of us might be impacted by very different issues


I also realized that very nice gilt can’t be a bad bet and if I find an even better one someday, I’ll always be able to sell this one and upgrade (or maybe I’ll be too attached to this one by then and I won’t ). So in the mean time, why not appreciate this beauty



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[brockburst]

I think better examples can be found at that price elsewhere

[DSplash]

Originally Posted by brockburst

I think better examples can be found at that price elsewhere

The price is a little lower in the end, more like 38
And when I look on Chrono24 for that kind of price, the examples are not terrific...
Have you recently seen one?


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[DSplash]

https://www.chrono24.fr/rolex/rolex-...-id9080671.htm

This one maybe?


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[brockburst]

I wouldn't rush the decision, they can be had.

I will send you some info directly.

[DSplash]

Originally Posted by brockburst

I wouldn't rush the decision, they can be had.

I will send you some info directly.

Thank you, that’s very nice!
Other detail of importance : I’m in France and shipping from outside of the EU will add a nice 20% tax


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[brockburst]

Pm sent

[lupus66]

A tiny stain would make chances slimmer that it is a vietnam dial.

[DSplash]

The dial really looks nice apart from that spot. The laque is very glossy and smooth but you can see some tiny cracks with the loupe here and there that would tend to validate it to my eyes...Unless fakers can copy that too?


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[77T]

Originally Posted by lupus66

A tiny stain would make chances slimmer that it is a vietnam dial.

How so?

Anywhere along the line of working on the watch, an accidental droplet could have fallen upon that dial (along with the inevitable blotting by that watchmaker). It wouldn’t change the possibility of where the watch’s owner bought it years earlier.


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[lupus66]

Fake dials are usually spotless

[DSplash]

Hi all :)

Still in my quest for the 1675 gilt of my dreams, I came upon this one :




From what I see, the dial and insert seam really nice and period correct. The hands match but the lack of corrosion surprises me so I doubt their originality. The date wheel is « silverish » with open 6/9 so I would say replacement one from the 70s. The difficult to assess part for me is the case, it seems to me it has been previously polished and lost its sharpness but not so much either...
Any expert thoughts?

Thx


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[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by DSplash

From what I see, the dial and insert seam really nice and period correct. The hands match but the lack of corrosion surprises me so I doubt their originality. The date wheel is « silverish » with open 6/9 so I would say replacement one from the 70s. The difficult to assess part for me is the case, it seems to me it has been previously polished and lost its sharpness but not so much either...
Any expert thoughts?

Thx

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Respectfully disagree about the hands. Lack of corrosion (and there is some if you zoom in on the center....see pic) may not be the best test for whether hands have been replaced or not. My '66 gilt Sub has barely-corroded hands, and they're original.