Flu Shot

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by jrubero

Hey Bas, never too young to get it. I read that doctors recommend getting it as young as 6 months old. I'm sure you're a lot older than six months... Like I say better safe than sorry..

If I die from a flu then I deserve it.

[Cryten]

Originally Posted by jrubero

Hey Bas, never too young to get it. I read that doctors recommend getting it as young as 6 months old. I'm sure you're a lot older than six months... Like I say better safe than sorry..

You're right. It's safer not to be injected with mercury and formaldehyde.

Some vaccines have proven efficacy, and my family have all had them. Others have dubious claims at best, so why take the risk?

My sister lives with an egg allergy, likely caused by vaccines grown on egg protein when she was younger. The rise in celiac has been attributed to the same cause (wheat proteins used).

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by Flyinghunter

It's largely an airborne, not a surface contact issue.

Not true.
Flu virus can survive on hard surfaces for as long as 24 hours, whereas on a tissue for maybe only 15 minutes.
So while airborne transfer is a problem, so is someone sneezing or such like onto say a handrail etc on public transport or counter top in shop etc.

And yes, I had my flu jab, last week.

With our National Heath Service here in the UK, we don't have the paranoia that this is driven only by the pharma industry, and our NHS actively encourages people to have the jab, especially once over age 50-55.

While it is educated guess work as to the vaccine makeup each year, it is done from info from the south-hemisphere, as to the strains of flu seen there in their previous winter, i.e northern hemisphere summer time, and vice versa.

[JoseR]

Originally Posted by SearChart

If I die from a flu then I deserve it.

Fair enough. I hope you don't ever get it and you have a long and healthy life...

[BisonHead]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

Not true.
Flu virus can survive on hard surfaces for as long as 24 hours, whereas on a tissue for maybe only 15 minutes.
So while airborne transfer is a problem, so is someone sneezing or such like onto say a handrail etc on public transport or counter top in shop etc.

And yes, I had my flu jab, last week.

With our National Heath Service here in the UK, we don't have the paranoia that this is driven only by the pharma industry, and our NHS actively encourages people to have the jab, especially once over age 50-55.

While it is educated guess work as to the vaccine makeup each year, it is done from info from the south-hemisphere, as to the strains of flu seen there in their previous winter, i.e northern hemisphere summer time, and vice versa.

Cough/sneeze and catch it, In a tissue. This was a health campaign a few years ago. Catch it and bin it was another in the UK

[77T]

Originally Posted by Cryten

You're right. It's safer not to be injected with mercury and formaldehyde.

Some vaccines have proven efficacy, and my family have all had them. Others have dubious claims at best, so why take the risk?

My sister lives with an egg allergy, likely caused by vaccines grown on egg protein when she was younger. The rise in celiac has been attributed to the same cause (wheat proteins used).

Many of those points were true in the past but times have changed for the better.

This year all the US-based flu vax is egg-free, so your sis is safe to get a shot.

Plus, for the past many years, all single dose vax’s and sprays have been preservative-free.

It was the multi-dose vials that had Thimerosal (the mercury-based preservative) in the vial to prevent bacteria or fungi growth between uses.

Wheat isn’t in the flu vax. Dr. Peter Green, director of the Celiac Disease Center at Columbia University, stated the flu vaccine is safe for kids with celiac disease.




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[pickettt]

Originally Posted by 77T

Plus, for the past many years, all single dose vax’s and sprays have been preservative-free.

It was the multi-dose vials that had Thimerosal (the mercury-based preservative) in the vial to prevent bacteria or fungi growth between uses.

Had or has?

[77T]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Had or has?

Should have been “have”.
Thanks didn’t see that auto-correct.

The multi-dose vials still have preservatives. But only large scale health centers order those as far as I know.

In US, the providers mostly use the single dose shots/sprays.


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[Cryten]

Originally Posted by 77T

Many of those points were true in the past but times have changed for the better.

This year all the US-based flu vax is egg-free, so your sis is safe to get a shot.

Plus, for the past many years, all single dose vax’s and sprays have been preservative-free.

It was the multi-dose vials that had Thimerosal (the mercury-based preservative) in the vial to prevent bacteria or fungi growth between uses.

Wheat isn’t in the flu vax. Dr. Peter Green, director of the Celiac Disease Center at Columbia University, stated the flu vaccine is safe for kids with celiac disease.

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It's good to hear these issues are being addressed, but lets not forget these were once considered safe. Who'd have thought that inducing an immune response with egg and wheat proteins would have had life time consequences?

Everything in life is a calculated risk, and vaccines are no different. I choose to skip the flu shot as all I see is unnecessary risk.

[locutus49]

I get the Senor Flu Shot, which has double the power.

[locutus49]

Ths is long-debunked conspiracy theory stuff. When your health is at stake, trust science, not some internet housewife who claims to be an expert.

Originally Posted by Cryten

You're right. It's safer not to be injected with mercury and formaldehyde.

Some vaccines have proven efficacy, and my family have all had them. Others have dubious claims at best, so why take the risk?

My sister lives with an egg allergy, likely caused by vaccines grown on egg protein when she was younger. The rise in celiac has been attributed to the same cause (wheat proteins used).

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Cesium137

Big pharma sham. The sheep are vaccinated and we lined our pockets

My sentiments exactly.

[Bobcat09]

Get mine every year...wouldn’t dare take a chance on not getting one.

[Boothroyd]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Ths is long-debunked conspiracy theory stuff. When your health is at stake, trust science, not some internet housewife who claims to be an expert.

x2. Get my flu jab annually. Got the Shingrix vaccine this year as well.

[Cryten]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Ths is long-debunked conspiracy theory stuff. When your health is at stake, trust science, not some internet housewife who claims to be an expert.

Conspiracy theory? Which part?

That thimerosal is used and it contains mercury? That formeldhyde is used as a preservative? How about the proteins used to grow the cultures? All this info is easily searchable for those interested, and there certainly hasn't been any debunking going on.

It's healthy to have a dose of scepticism and not blindly accept everything as settled science or fact. Science evolves as more is learned, its the nature of the beast.

Just remember of c115,000 doctors polled, most prefer to smoke Camel cigarettes. Try asking those same doctors their thoughs on smoking now......

[The Kermit]

I have the jab every year due to medical reasons. Caught Flu a few years ago and believe me you do not want this virus.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by Cryten

Conspiracy theory? Which part?

That thimerosal is used and it contains mercury? That formeldhyde is used as a preservative? How about the proteins used to grow the cultures? All this info is easily searchable for those interested, and there certainly hasn't been any debunking going on.

It's healthy to have a dose of scepticism and not blindly accept everything as settled science or fact. Science evolves as more is learned, its the nature of the beast.

Just remember of c115,000 doctors polled, most prefer to smoke Camel cigarettes. Try asking those same doctors their thoughs on smoking now......

Water and oxygen are toxic. Both will kill you in high enough quantities/concentrations. Humans ingest arsenic and cyanide on a daily basis.

It’s legitimate to debate the relative efficacy of vaccines - some are more effective than others. Spreading unproven misinformation is another thing entirely. The comparison with smoking is specious. The first convincing evidence of the serious harms associated with smoking emerged in the 50’s (I can’t date the poster you linked, but it’s from around then) and as with any scientific discovery that changes the status quo, it took time to be corroborated and accepted. The safety of the ‘flu and other commonly scheduled vaccines has been backed up by studies involving millions of people in dozens of countries over decades, which is why no doctor who isn’t a quack challenges the evidence.

So to reflect a challenge you made up-thread back to you, can you post any decent quality evidence that demonstrates the ‘flu vaccine to be harmful?

[Cryten]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

..... Spreading unproven misinformation is another thing entirely

Please elaborate. What have I said that is unproven or "misinformation"

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

.....The comparison with smoking is specious.

I think it proves my point nicely. The study was done in the '40's and by the '50's was being doubted as more information about smoking was forthcoming. Sound familiar?

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

So to reflect a challenge you made up-thread back to you, can you post any decent quality evidence that demonstrates the ‘flu vaccine to be harmful?

That's not my position. My position is the benefits aren't proven, so I choose not to partake. I'm not trying to convince anyone to take any position here, simply explaining why I don't get a flu shot.

Some say they get a shot every year and never get the flu. By that reasoning my lounge chair repels lions. I've had it for 12 years and I've never once had a lion in the house.

[Rashid.bk]

In this situation everyone will do what they feel provides them peace of mind and as such will research and be swayed by information based on their own predisposed idea of the correct answer.
I’m a paramedic, after speaking with many doctors, nurses and coworkers, I decided over ten years ago to never get vaccinated. The only time I ever actually got it is when I’m forced to by service protocols.

Last year I came down with the flu, first time in my life, no vaccine, coincidently I was on a base during vaccine season. Lots of sickos around, my employer doesn’t require it and I will be very happy to NOT get vaccinated this year or next....or next.

[locutus49]

These are hard facts, and conspiracy theorists don't like facts. Well, they like internet facts, not real facts.

Originally Posted by 77T

Many of those points were true in the past but times have changed for the better.

This year all the US-based flu vax is egg-free, so your sis is safe to get a shot.

Plus, for the past many years, all single dose vax’s and sprays have been preservative-free.

It was the multi-dose vials that had Thimerosal (the mercury-based preservative) in the vial to prevent bacteria or fungi growth between uses.

Wheat isn’t in the flu vax. Dr. Peter Green, director of the Celiac Disease Center at Columbia University, stated the flu vaccine is safe for kids with celiac disease.




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[LandWatch]

Actually, I’ve never even considered it, one way or another. I don’t actually recall having the flu. I seem to get a cold once every 5 years or so. Probably tempting fate now ...

[mmutte]

Originally Posted by Cryten

Please elaborate. What have I said that is unproven or "misinformation"



I think it proves my point nicely. The study was done in the '40's and by the '50's was being doubted as more information about smoking was forthcoming. Sound familiar?




That's not my position. My position is the benefits aren't proven, so I choose not to partake. I'm not trying to convince anyone to take any position here, simply explaining why I don't get a flu shot.

Some say they get a shot every year and never get the flu. By that reasoning my lounge chair repels lions. I've had it for 12 years and I've never once had a lion in the house.

When’s the last time you had a lion standing by your front door waiting to come in but changed his mind because he saw your lounge chair.
I’m guessing far fewer times than a person who has received the vaccine and was protected from a flu exposure.

[The Libertine]

Every year.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by locutus49

These are hard facts, and conspiracy theorists don't like facts. Well, they like internet facts, not real facts.

What conspiracy is he theorizing? Simple question.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by Cryten

Please elaborate. What have I said that is unproven or "misinformation"

You are casting doubt on the safety of the ‘flu vaccine. Healthy skepticism I don’t have an issue with, but skepticism surely has to have some basis in objective reality?

Furthermore, you asserted that vaccines caused an egg allergy in a relative and that vaccines have been attributed as the cause of the apparent increase in prevalence of Coeliac. Unless you provide evidence, the null hypothesis applies.

Originally Posted by Cryten

That's not my position. My position is the benefits aren't proven, so I choose not to partake. I'm not trying to convince anyone to take any position here, simply explaining why I don't get a flu shot.

The evidence suggests the vaccine is marginally effective in healthy adults which is not quite the same as unproven, though I accept the ‘flu vaccine is certainly less efficacious than many others on standard schedules, which is why choosing, as you do, not to vaccinate is a rational choice for many.

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...1269.pub6/full

Originally Posted by Cryten

Some say they get a shot every year and never get the flu. By that reasoning my lounge chair repels lions. I've had it for 12 years and I've never once had a lion in the house.

I agree that the reasoning you describe here is unsound.

[Chewbacca]

Scam!

The government works with big pharma to inject us with diseases to make bagillions!

Just like toothpaste! It causes cavities!!

[R G]

Originally Posted by THC

Got mine today, as I do every year... how many TRF peeps get flu shots?

Also interested to see if this is just a USA thing or do other countries offer these.

(No Syringe emoji available )

Got mine today, for the first time. My wife will also follow.

We’re doing it to reduce the chances of passing anything on to our 4 1/2 month old baby boy this winter.

Typically, the NHS don’t offer this unless there is a specific reason that you should have it, so it was a small fee to be carried out privately by a pharmacist.

[Cryten]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

You are casting doubt on the safety of the ‘flu vaccine. Healthy skepticism I don’t have an issue with, but skepticism surely has to have some basis in objective reality?

Furthermore, you asserted that vaccines caused an egg allergy in a relative and that vaccines have been attributed as the cause of the apparent increase in prevalence of Coeliac. Unless you provide evidence, the null hypothesis applies.



The evidence suggests the vaccine is marginally effective in healthy adults which is not quite the same as unproven, though I accept the ‘flu vaccine is certainly less efficacious than many others on standard schedules, which is why choosing, as you do, not to vaccinate is a rational choice for many.

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...1269.pub6/full


I agree that the reasoning you describe here is unsound.

I'm not so much casting doubt on safety, as arguing the risk/benefit ratio, which for me is the risk of injecting these substances into my body vs the unproven benefit. Ask me again in 20-30 years and you may find me lining up for a jab, but for now any possible benefit ("probably" around 1% as per the study you cite) is outweighed by the risks.

The egg and wheat protein issue will likely never be proven as any proper scientific trial would fail the ethical test long before it got off the ground, so you're right on that one. However there is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest a link so once again there's a risk/benefit equation for people to weigh for themselves.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by mmutte

Interesting. Do you have the reference?

https://www.henryschein.com/us-en/im...K_FluLaval.pdf

Sorry, I thought I'd sent this over already.

[SunTzu]

Originally Posted by R G

Got mine today, for the first time. My wife will also follow.

We’re doing it to reduce the chances of passing anything on to our 4 1/2 month old baby boy this winter.

Typically, the NHS don’t offer this unless there is a specific reason that you should have it, so it was a small fee to be carried out privately by a pharmacist.

Sound reasoning. It's not just for you but also the people around you. May your baby boy remain healthy and hardy!

Similar reasoning for the MMR vaccine in children. MMR is highly contagious and can be deadly.