Help on a Daytona 16520 Patrizzi..

[kay13]

Hi all,
In my inspection period on this Daytona 16520 Patrizzi
I am new at the collecting and I would highly appreciate your opinion and of the expert’s eye.
A beautiful , I think. Any flaws or red flags ? Do you think it is over polished?
Any opinion is appreciated . What do you guys think?


https://imgur.com/LWWFjxv

https://imgur.com/CiAyxJ1

https://imgur.com/7Xrol9m

https://imgur.com/oJukCHS

[daOnlyBG]

Hard pass.

[1665fan]

Insert is newer, Boxes and papers? Serial?

[kay13]

Any detail observation of the expert's eye is appreciated.
It is an S serial. Should I get it. almost 29K no Papers.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Hard pass.

Might be helpful to elaborate.

If I were seeking a true Patrizzi, I would buy only if I could confirm that the sub-dial patina occurred naturally, which is very difficult to do. I'd also much prefer a full set on this watch, preferably with U.S. paperwork that would specify that it originally came with a black dial.

That said, this example looks pretty good, with a case/bezel that has been polished, but doesn't look too bad. Is it worth $29K? Not to me, but that's a question each potential buyer would need to answer.

[kay13]

Thank you swish77.

[1665fan]

I’d say it’s worth 30....I expect the inverted 6 will take off in the future. I have an S inverted and it has not started to turn at all...I know S was a changeover year because I have seen more of them with the regular 6 than the inverted 6 dial. Original insert will be hard to find and pricey if you chose to do so

[kay13]

Any idea if this Patrizzi occurred naturally, any sign that it might be fake or forced?
Again any observation of the expert's eye is appreciated.
Thank you all.

[athom]

I find the sudbials more greenish than brownish...however 29K w/o paper is for me too expensive for this one...

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by kay13

Any idea if this Patrizzi occurred naturally, any sign that it might be fake or forced?
Again any observation of the expert's eye is appreciated.
Thank you all.

What might be a better question is to ask if anyone has had one from new and watched the sub dials change colour without interference over the years. I will wait with baited breath.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Paulie 50

What might be a better question is to ask if anyone has had one from new and watched the sub dials change colour without interference over the years. I will wait with baited breath.

...... And whatever you do, don't hold your breath.

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by springer

...... And whatever you do, don't hold your breath.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Paulie 50

What might be a better question is to ask if anyone has had one from new and watched the sub dials change colour without interference over the years. I will wait with baited breath.

Well, we need to be careful, because the implication here is that the browning on the sub-dials of Patrizzi dials has never occurred naturally, when there are plenty of cases of original owners reporting this phenomenon.

The real question is whether this particular dial has been "helped" to obtain patina. And that's hard to tell. I would never pay a premium for such a 16520 unless I could determine 100 percent it was natural. Otherwise, it would be safer to stick to 16520s that don't have questions about the dial, whether it's a Patrizzi or not.

[77T]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Insert is newer, Boxes and papers? Serial?

Unsure what you mean - a Daytona doesn’t have an insert. Did you mean the bezel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[77T]

Originally Posted by swish77

Well, we need to be careful, because the implication here is that the browning on the sub-dials of Patrizzi dials has never occurred naturally, when there are plenty of cases of original owners reporting this phenomenon.

The real question is whether this particular dial has been "helped" to obtain patina. And that's hard to tell. I would never pay a premium for such a 16520 unless I could determine 100 percent it was natural. Otherwise, it would be safer to stick to 16520s that don't have questions about the dial, whether it's a Patrizzi or not.

I understand your meaning and there is virtually no way to know except in cases where a dial has other obvious “tells” that it had been manipulated.

Because every one of these Patrizzi dials is unique (ranging in color from the palest ivory to deep toast) the unusual colored subdial rings on Zenith Daytona’s can’t be vetted from the front side alone.

IMHO, you’d have to categorize the backside of the dials to document the maker of true Patrizzi’s - many may be unmasked that way - but such an effort is risky, expensive and unlikely to be undertaken.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[kay13]

Thank you, I meaant if the Bezel seems roiginal to the watch.

[1665fan]

Yes bezel is newer and not original, you need to do more homework before spending 30 bills in my book, no offense meant

[kay13]

I have been trying to. I have been looking to find a web site that has the pictures of different Bezels for different production years of the Daytona 16520, but couldn't find any. I only found this site for The Dials, that I hope this site help new collectors with not much experience like me also.

http://www.drsd.com/watch-info/daytona/16520-dials.html

[1665fan]

Look at the words on the bezel...the spacing between the letters is very large distance just like the 116520 bezel....and the same bezel you will get at service....the spacing in the letters should be tight together for an S serial...

[kay13]

Thank You.

[1665fan]

The larger spacing letters first came out to my knowledge in mid A serial numbers and was usually paired with the luminova dial watches.... like the A serial on the drsd site you put up

[swish77]

In addition to the distinctions detailed above, there are subtle differences between all of the bezel types used during the 16520 run. Here's a very useful link I used during my research:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...as-t17026.html

[TMEwatch11]

Good one ...Thanks!!!!

[kay13]

Thanks again, great site for me.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by swish77

Might be helpful to elaborate.

If I were seeking a true Patrizzi, I would buy only if I could confirm that the sub-dial patina occurred naturally, which is very difficult to do. I'd also much prefer a full set on this watch, preferably with U.S. paperwork that would specify that it originally came with a black dial.

That said, this example looks pretty good, with a case/bezel that has been polished, but doesn't look too bad. Is it worth $29K? Not to me, but that's a question each potential buyer would need to answer.

You (and others on here) are questioning whether OP's pics of the Patrizzi dial indicate that the subdials have been aged naturally. That's fair.

The reason I found it obvious to pass on that watch is fairly simple: the fonts on the subdial in OP's post don't match any other Reference 16520, Patrizzi or otherwise. Either this was a one-off or it's a counterfeit- and I think we all know which is more probable.

Hence, the "hard pass."

[swish77]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

You (and others on here) are questioning whether OP's pics of the Patrizzi dial indicate that the subdials have been aged naturally. That's fair.

The reason I found it obvious to pass on that watch is fairly simple: the fonts on the subdial in OP's post don't match any other Reference 16520, Patrizzi or otherwise. Either this was a one-off or it's a counterfeit- and I think we all know which is more probable.

Hence, the "hard pass."

IMHO, sub-dial font looks correct in OP's example for the earlier inverted 6 dials that also have the four hashmarks on the 3 o'clock sub-dial, as opposed to three. The font on the sub-dial numbers was indeed rounder and different than on the later 16520 dials.

Here's one I saw earlier today (and almost bought) at the famous Nakano Broadway mall in Tokyo, a vintage watch lover's paradise.

[kay13]

Thanks Aaron for your detail look.
I wish I was at the Nakano Broadway and could buy that watch.
I passed on the one I initially posted, and thanks to you guys found too many unknowns and that it had a newer Bezel! I am learning.
I just came across this one which is 28K, not a Patrizzi, with box and some, but NO paper, seller says Rarely worn. Can you guy please tell me your opinion and the negatives on this one?

https://imgur.com/jh2wqFZ
https://imgur.com/F7BQBbV
https://imgur.com/iNfhXQx
https://imgur.com/1gERmRG
https://imgur.com/Na9FcBL
https://imgur.com/MYt8YPo
https://imgur.com/C1ZRqOD
https://imgur.com/MciqRVq
https://imgur.com/QQJnf96
https://imgur.com/A4V2K56
https://imgur.com/GbZGVxW

Again I would totally appreciate ANY comments.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by kay13

Thanks Aaron for your detail look.
I wish I was at the Nakano Broadway and could buy that watch.
I passed on the one I initially posted, and thanks to you guys found too many unknowns and that it had a newer Bezel! I am learning.
I just came across this one which is 28K, not a Patrizzi, with box and some, but NO paper, seller says Rarely worn. Can you guy please tell me your opinion and the negatives on this one?

https://imgur.com/jh2wqFZ
https://imgur.com/F7BQBbV
https://imgur.com/iNfhXQx
https://imgur.com/1gERmRG
https://imgur.com/Na9FcBL
https://imgur.com/MYt8YPo
https://imgur.com/C1ZRqOD
https://imgur.com/MciqRVq
https://imgur.com/QQJnf96
https://imgur.com/A4V2K56
https://imgur.com/GbZGVxW

Again I would totally appreciate ANY comments.

Soft case, which would be a deal-breaker for me at any price. Dial looks good, and is an inverted 6, which usually commands a premium. But at $28K, I'd want a stronger example, especially since it's not a full set.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by swish77

Soft case, which would be a deal-breaker for me at any price. Dial looks good, and is an inverted 6, which usually commands a premium. But at $28K, I'd want a stronger example, especially since it's not a full set.

Same thing I said in my reply in other post, bad polish job

[swish77]

OP, compare to this 16520, U Serial .... Untouched case with fat full lugs and crown guards, and super sharp lines. Also, note the full edge of the bezel. That often gets removed on polished (over-polished) bezels.

This is what I'd want in a case, even if it's nicked up a little.