Why I Love my Gray Dealer

[mykii]

Originally Posted by berchris

This is a good thread with many well thought out replies. I see the merits in both sides of the argument. There are people like me, who cannot stomach paying more than MSRP for something and others who are willing to spend the premium for immediacy. It is disheartening however, to walk into an AD with cash in hand and not be able to purchase what you want and be strongly encouraged to purchase something you don’t want.

It isn't immediacy though, because the chance that most of us will get offered what we want (even with spend history) is basically 0. So it is pay to play. You either spend endless $$ at an AD for the "hope" of receiving what you want, or go grey and get the guarantee of receiving it. It's been said before, but a BLRO is 60-70k spend minimum for consideration at my AD and a Daytona is 100k+. That spend does NOT guarantee allocation. I am the only one of my friend s that have a BLRO, and a friend who has 100k+ spend history still doesn't even have his Daytona (which is all he's been trying to receive since day 1). He's just been buying whatever is offered in the hopes the next is the Daytona.

Going grey is in fact the economic option for those amongst us who don't want endless watches and consumerism.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by sunnygps

And spend another $50k or more to establish a relationship by buying PM watches or jewelry that I don’t want?

It all depends on the market on is in. There are buying in my area buying platinum DD and Daytona to get a BLRO. There many who are doing this and it just does not make any sense.

If they want a platona, it does make sense....

[sunnygps]

Folks who think that by Rolex letting the ADs will fix the problem of ADs selling to grey dealers are kidding themselves. I know that my AD does not sell directly to grey dealers. However, if someone were to buy a PM watch and also a BLRO, guess what most of those buyers are doing? Selling one of them to a grey dealer. They then rinse and repeat as even the PM (DD and Daytona) watches are selling for above MSRP at the grey dealers. There is a waiting list for these desirable PM watches, which in my entire watch collection history, I have never seen.

If ADs were allowed to set their own prices, the watch will go to the highest bidder or contender. If you bundle it with a PM, the game changes. Or, one has enough $ to not care if one were to just buy a $40k to $70k watch to get a hyped up BLRO.

I have no issues with my AD cashing-in when he can. It is his business and runs it the way he feels is in his best interest. I am not looking for him to sell me a watch, just because... My AD has been great so far and I am sure they will continue to be. They have always told me that it is possible to get me the watch I wanted, however I will have to wait a bit. And, they have come through.

What bothers me the most is that to get a SubC, I have to compete with onetime buyers and flippers, and wait 8 to 12 months to get a Sub!

I have nothing against the ADs or the grey dealer. I have bought from the TS here before and won’t hesitate to do it again. It is the current market dynamics we live in and I am adjusting my thinking to align with how the market is and to be at peace with it. If it means waiting 12 months to get the 41mm Sub at retail or pay $2.5k more for it and enjoy it during that time.

The current market dynamics makes it hard for the folks who love watches, have the money to buy what they want, yet have to deal with the games of AD, flippers and grey dealers.

[berchris]

Originally Posted by mykii

It isn't immediacy though, because the chance that most of us will get offered what we want (even with spend history) is basically 0. So it is pay to play. You either spend endless $$ at an AD for the "hope" of receiving what you want, or go grey and get the guarantee of receiving it. It's been said before, but a BLRO is 60-70k spend minimum for consideration at my AD and a Daytona is 100k+. That spend does NOT guarantee allocation. I am the only one of my friend s that have a BLRO, and a friend who has 100k+ spend history still doesn't even have his Daytona (which is all he's been trying to receive since day 1). He's just been buying whatever is offered in the hopes the next is the Daytona.

Going grey is in fact the economic option for those amongst us who don't want endless watches and consumerism.

Totally agree!

[fixinbones]

Originally Posted by garyk

If you could look into a crystal ball and predict how many years you will be on this earth, how many did you want to waste waiting for the Sub and how many wearing it?? How do you put a price on life. I bought my 2020 116613LB in late June from a grey and saving my state sales tax, I actually paid less for my watch than retail. I was also able to get the previous model with the larger lugs and smaller bracelet which I personally prefer. Great deal going grey for me...

That can work as long as you dont want a SS BLRO or SS Daytona. I had a similar grey purchase when I picked up my WG BLRO in 2019. I basically paid the same as it would have cost me to buy from an AD at MSRP with local sales tax.

[fixinbones]

Originally Posted by vh2k

If I buy a new car for $50,000, and most other people pay $55,000... I don’t care what label you apply — fair price, market price, whatever. All I care is I got a better deal.

When I pay $13,150 for a Daytona, and other people are paying $25,000... again, I don’t care what you call it. I’m much happier with $12,000 extra in my pocket.

So would everybody but would you be willing wait two years to get that car at a $5,000 discount?

Personally the AD game is a no go for me. Fortunately I can afford to buy from greys but regardless I’m still careful with what I pay.

[berchris]

Originally Posted by mykii

It isn't immediacy though, because the chance that most of us will get offered what we want (even with spend history) is basically 0. So it is pay to play. You either spend endless $$ at an AD for the "hope" of receiving what you want, or go grey and get the guarantee of receiving it. It's been said before, but a BLRO is 60-70k spend minimum for consideration at my AD and a Daytona is 100k+. That spend does NOT guarantee allocation. I am the only one of my friend s that have a BLRO, and a friend who has 100k+ spend history still doesn't even have his Daytona (which is all he's been trying to receive since day 1). He's just been buying whatever is offered in the hopes the next is the Daytona.

Going grey is in fact the economic option for those amongst us who don't want endless watches and consumerism.

Totally agree!

[Pw92676]

Enjoy your watch.

This is still a watch forum, right?

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by Master_Grogu

I fully understand your experience. Having sold and tried to buy on C24, my perspective is that there is nothing there for me.

The only sell that has ever made an attempt of showing some savoir-être, was from Japan. Most of the time, my queries will get single sentence replies. Errors pointed out will yield frustrated dismissive answers and I have never felt a deal could be made that would benefit me. Always a catch to what’s on C24.

A memorable moment was when a seller put pictures of a full
set, whereas the watch would not come with it. A bit of a decor of some sort for the photo shoot. Deceptive and if I wanted to fight slow minded sharks, I’d go buy a second hand car instead to any shady garage of my area.

However I must also say that I have not encountered a grey here that made the experience pleasant either. I’ve reached out to them before creating an account, and they show little class in my opinion. But I am biased as I live in an area where 5 star service is common.

Ha. This made me chuckle. There’s a well-rated wholesaler/grey (Seller A) who is on C24 that a separate, well-respected grey (Seller B) sourced a BNIB grail piece for me through. In other words, I bought from Seller B who procured through Seller A. The pictures of the grail piece listed RIGHT NOW by Seller A on C24 is the exact same watch I own today (can tell by first few alphanumeric on the hangtag) and other tells. So, pictures do not match listing at all for this watch on C24, because the watch being shown is on my wrist right now!

As far as the AD/Grey discussion. I’ve purchased from both. Love both. Just depends on the situation. After 18 months and no prior relationship/spend, an AD got me my 116500 DaytonaC (white) just before Christmas. In another instance, I knew that I’d never have the spend to get a Holy Trinity “grail” piece that is boutique only. So what did I do? I went grey and paid the premium and was thankful that I did. Without the grey market, I’d never own this specific watch.

While discussed ad nauseam, certain folks seem to criticize the grey market. I think this is unfair, as the greys are simply market makers who provide liquidity through the bid/ask spreads they offer on their respective buys and sells. I understand that back door sales to greys make it harder for some to get the watch they’ve waited years for (and spent tens of thousands on others items in the process) through their AD, but is this really the greys’ hill to die on? Blame ADs or, better yet, Rolex and their lack of meaningful enforcement.

The greys were the same ones pre-2017 selling folks BNIB Submariners and other SS Rolex Models below MSRP right here on TRF. Their bid/ask is dictated by the secondary market which they, themselves, cannot solely set. Rolex production, social media demand, etc. predominantly factor. If you own a hot SS Rolex model today, you can have funds within a business day or two by selling to a grey. If you’re honest with yourself and know that certain models are truly unobtainium at an AD (even if you’re good for the funds), you can have it on your wrist via grey within 24 hours.

I like my AD and I like my greys. I think customer service when it comes to watches is somewhat overrated. Just get me the watch according to terms buyer and seller have agreed to. The rest is just gravy. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve struck up meaningful friendships with my AD and enjoy interacting with greys, but those weren’t expectations I had going into a potential watch purchase.

[dwjez14]

Time is money. Go gray

[TswaneNguni]

Grey is easy ,if you want it now ,just wait two weeks ,by then its sold and not your problem anymore .

[TswaneNguni]

PS : Watches has become "very serious business " since market prices went up ....

Before that, "the ancients" in their wisdom, enjoyed their watches (more? ) .
They used to create their own history with their trusty companion on the wrist ...birthdays,child births,trips,holidays etc .

I am sure that was creator Wilsdorf's intention.

[RJG]

Some of these hot models are $ 4 K above MSRP. Some are $ 16 K.

For some of you that's peanuts.

For the other 80 + % of us that's more than a mortgage payment...
and therefore it's freakin 'UGE !

And so we will gladly wait on some invisible list in some SA's world for the MSRP + tax price.

We're not in a hurry. The watch on / off our wrists isn't affecting us somehow making a better life for ourselves...so there is NO RUSH with this approach.

That's something you should be very keen on. We're not over here wringing our hands and biting our nails.

I've got lots of other hobbies and interests to focus on. Painting...scuba... music.
Some 'wait list' for a Submariner - is just background noise.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

When you are over paying for anything of course you get excellent service and selection and they are glad to take your money. They price things high enough that the demand is just enough to get a buyer. When you are an ad and have to sell at MSRP of a product that commands well over then why would you think anything else but the reasons you stated. Common sense.

trusted sellers had better service than ADs when they were selling everything at discounts too though, i don't know about large greys but trusted sellers always knew how to treat customers

[LowFades]

In pre-pandemic days, I thought grey dealers were always cheaper than going AD? With the exception of the hard-to-get unicorns at the time

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by huncho

trusted sellers had better service than ADs when they were selling everything at discounts too though, i don't know about large greys but trusted sellers always knew how to treat customers

What do you mean by this? Exactly what type of treatment are you referring to?

[Atone]

Originally Posted by huncho

trusted sellers had better service than ADs when they were selling everything at discounts too though, i don't know about large greys but trusted sellers always knew how to treat customers

That wasn’t my experience at all had plenty of great deals with grays here but ad’s pre-fake scarcity were quite pleasant to visit.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by LowFades

In pre-pandemic days, I thought grey dealers were always cheaper than going AD? With the exception of the hard-to-get unicorns at the time

They were. I never paid above msrp for decades through our trusted sellers. That’s just it as the newbies haven’t been around long enough to have a informed opinion on the matter. Their snap shot of time has only been since Rolex models went hot the last 3 years. Only 3 years ago I was paying below msrp. To put your hopes in a AD in the chance of getting a Rolex by buying jewelry I don’t want is simply Ludacris.


I even got a discount:

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

What do you mean by this? Exactly what type of treatment are you referring to?

i meant that they are not just treating people nicely because of huge premiums and there were always ADs (specifically large chains) that were terrible. tournaeu comes to mind as they sucked before all this started. terrible information, pushy/sleazy tactics and no interest in customers. there are others that people here have complained about years ago also

Originally Posted by Atone

That wasn’t my experience at all had plenty of great deals with grays here but ad’s pre-fake scarcity were quite pleasant to visit.

agreed. the smaller and family owned ones are and were great. was just referring to specific chains

[boogiebot]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

When you are over paying for anything of course you get excellent service and selection and they are glad to take your money. They price things high enough that the demand is just enough to get a buyer. When you are an ad and have to sell at MSRP of a product that commands well over then why would you think anything else but the reasons you stated. Common sense.

truth.


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[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by huncho

i meant that they are not just treating people nicely because of huge premiums and there were always ADs (specifically large chains) that were terrible. tournaeu comes to mind as they sucked before all this started. terrible information, pushy/sleazy tactics and no interest in customers. there are others that people here have complained about years ago also

I guess my watch collecting experience has been far less dramatic. I have never felt that an AD has used “sleazy tactics”. I also don’t have very high expectations of treatment or anything else. It’s a transaction. I’m not looking to purchase a friendship


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[Mystro]

Originally Posted by huncho

i meant that they are not just treating people nicely because of huge premiums and there were always ADs (specifically large chains) that were terrible. tournaeu comes to mind as they sucked before all this started. terrible information, pushy/sleazy tactics and no interest in customers. there are others that people here have complained about years ago also



agreed. the smaller and family owned ones are and were great. was just referring to specific chains

It’s no secret that AD’s hire staff as qualified as Burger King does. It’s always been that way and the reason your store managers would always step in when finishing a sale. I have my own horror stories with “staff” mishandling my Rolex. That then established the rule of “No one touches my Rolex at a AD”.

[moneymike83]

I like how you justify going grey. It’s a no to me.


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[huncho]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

I guess my watch collecting experience has been far less dramatic. I have never felt that an AD has used “sleazy tactics”. I also don’t have very high expectations of treatment or anything else. It’s a transaction. I’m not looking to purchase a friendship


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i feel the same as you, but just get turned off by some of the ADs at times. i don't expect special treatment but you can search for threads about tournaeu here to get a better idea. they're just universally disliked lol

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Mystro

It’s no secret that AD’s hire staff as qualified as Burger King does. It’s always been that way and the reason your store managers would always step in when finishing a sale. I have my own horror stories with “staff” mishandling my Rolex. That then established the rule of “No one touches my Rolex at a AD”.

exactly, to a lot of these SA's it's just a regular job to pay the bills. they don't really care for watches and aren't enthusiasts. great ADs are there but hard to come by and not available to all

[jakjakman]

The USD won't be able to buy as much as it used to as we start into this new year. Life is short. Get the thing you've been in love with and bugging your AD about for the last year and a half. Talk to a trusted dealer and you'll have it the next day via FedEx overnight. Then wear it and love it every day. Sometime mid-year 2021 you'll be sitting in a boring meeting and just staring at your watch, completely in love, and happy for every day you've enjoyed it so far instead of wondering when the AD will call.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by fixinbones

That can work as long as you dont want a SS BLRO or SS Daytona. I had a similar grey purchase when I picked up my WG BLRO in 2019. I basically paid the same as it would have cost me to buy from an AD at MSRP with local sales tax.

I figured that only worked because Rolex had not yet announced the new Submariners. It arrived to me on July3. So very happy with it.

[Malum]

My AD has been great , but I have been holding out for an Exp.II Polar for months now . They say the have not seen one since early spring . I believe them , but I am starting to think I should go the grey route . There will be a new watch in 2021 and the price on the present iteration will just continue to rise.

[fixinbones]

Originally Posted by Mystro

It’s no secret that AD’s hire staff as qualified as Burger King does. It’s always been that way and the reason your store managers would always step in when finishing a sale. I have my own horror stories with “staff” mishandling my Rolex. That then established the rule of “No one touches my Rolex at a AD”.

Exactly, It’s just like buying a Toyota at an AD. The SA knows very little about the product and has no authority regarding pricing. He has to keep going back to that tall desk in the back to get oks from the “leasing manager”, the only guy with the slightest bit of knowledge in the building. Where as buying from a grey is like buying from a Porsche or MB dealer, totally different experience

[kirksingleton]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

When you are over paying for anything of course you get excellent service and selection and they are glad to take your money. They price things high enough that the demand is just enough to get a buyer. When you are an ad and have to sell at MSRP of a product that commands well over then why would you think anything else but the reasons you stated. Common sense.

ha!