32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Rori

My SD43 starts it’s life with me with a +2.5 seconds / day. 1 year, 3 months later its -0.5 a day. The last month the watch lost merely 16sec!
I don’t know if this is considered an issue by the experts.


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Sounds like a winner! Enjoy it

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Mystro

If I had to steer this forum in a direction, I would much rather encourage ocd time keeping and movement understanding than “What watch holds the most value” or all the commodity trading that has plagued this Rolex forum the last three years.
At least the by product of movement education is better horological knowledge and experience. Once that is established as a base line, value and what watch to buy will take care of itself without the need to ask.

[Rori]

Originally Posted by EEpro

Sounds like a winner! Enjoy it

I forgot to mention that the watch is never fully wind since I alternate wearing it with another watch and also I don’t wear it sleeping “8 hours” nor exercising “3 hours”


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[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by EEpro

It took 11 months for the problem to show on my TT DJ41. Went to -30 seconds per day after a 1 month nap. I owned 3 watches with the 3235 at the time and tested them on the timegrapher. SD43 and 2 DJ41. I own none of them now.

To be clear, are you saying all 3 had issues or you just got so fed up with the one that you got rid of them all?

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

To be clear, are you saying all 3 had issues or you just got so fed up with the one that you got rid of them all?

Good question. Only the TT DJ41 ever had the issue.

The others were not held long so no data there. I did see low amplitude with the offending one relative to the other two. High 100s to low 200s at full wind depending on position. The other two were 220-240 if I recall.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Mystro

And this is what most of us movement nerds spoke about the way Rolex tried to extend their power reserve with the 32 series movements. Their ultra thin single barrel method is more of a modification than a genuine solution to a usable 72 hour power reserve. Why did Rolex go against the well established and proven dual barrel mainspring???
Dual barrel mainsprings will blow a single barrel spring away in power reserve accuracy. Movements from Omega and Panerai will maintain a strong and consistent amplitude way into days of their power reserve yielding outstanding accuracy on day 3 of power reserve. Even if you don’t care about a 72 hour power reserve in your Rolex, you probably want it’s accuracy to not fall off at the 48 hour mark.

Agreed. So here's a follow-up question to that. If we compare 3135 to 3235, both are single barrel, right? Is there any evidence to suggest that, for example, hours 40-48 are more accurate with the 3135 even though they are its final hours of reserve? In my case, hours 70-72 of the 3235 are terrible, but I suppose you could argue that you still win by having gotten to that point in the first place. If, on the other hand, even in the 40-50 hour range the new design is providing anything other than "perfect" timekeeping then it seems like a dubious upgrade. Makes me want to try a 48 hour test on mine to see how it looks...

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Rori

My SD43 starts it’s life with me with a +2.5 seconds / day. 1 year, 3 months later its -0.5 a day. The last month the watch lost merely 16sec!
I don’t know if this is considered an issue by the experts.
Update: my watch is never fully charged since it’s off my wrist while sleeping “8 hours” then when I’m exercising “3 hours” then we should add the fact I also alternate with my Tudor.

The following test is useful (for you and others) just in case you have no instrumentation:

(1) Full watch winding, set correct time
(2) Put watch at rest with dial up
(3) Don't wind, move or touch it.
(4) Measure systematically the accuracy, e.g. after 6, 12, 18, 24 .... hours until the movement has stopped (autonomy)

This simple test gives you an indication of the amplitude decrease with time.
As soon as the amplitude gets < 200 degrees (which you don't see!) the rate goes to - "LARGE" s/d.
If that happens in the first 24 hours after full winding, then this movement very likely has an issue.
That test everybody can do! No need of a timegrapher or any App.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Mystro

If I had to steer this forum in a direction, I would much rather encourage .... movement understanding ....

I do my best for this thread at least ->
All supporting contributions (no issue or issue) are very WELCOME ...
"but" the objective of this thread is to acquire usable DATA DATA DATA.
Please, quantify as much as you can!

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Agreed. So here's a follow-up question to that. If we compare 3135 to 3235, both are single barrel, right? Is there any evidence to suggest that, for example, hours 40-48 are more accurate with the 3135 even though they are its final hours of reserve? In my case, hours 70-72 of the 3235 are terrible, but I suppose you could argue that you still win by having gotten to that point in the first place. If, on the other hand, even in the 40-50 hour range the new design is providing anything other than "perfect" timekeeping then it seems like a dubious upgrade. Makes me want to try a 48 hour test on mine to see how it looks...

The 31 series uses a thicker spring in a serviceable barrel. The 32 series mainspring barrel is disposable and cant be serviced. With all my testing of different movements, no single barrel main spring can touch a dual barrel mainspring in any category other than space. That said, Panerai managed to get its P9010 movement with dual barrel main spring very thin.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Mystro

The 31 series uses a thicker spring in a serviceable barrel. The 32 series mainspring barrel is disposable and cant be serviced. With all my testing of different movements, no single barrel main spring can touch a dual barrel mainspring in any category other than space. That said, Panerai managed to get its P9010 movement with dual barrel main spring very thin.

Have to agree about twin barrel IMHO in their hay-day Longines made some very fine movements and the Longines twin-barrel movements were something I wish had survived in current production, a very accurate brilliant movement, but very expensive to make. Calibre 890, 892 & 893 had stacked twin barrels where calibres 990 to 994 had side-by-side barrels in a movement only 2.95mm thick. Now back in those bygone days the power reserve of 44 hours was respectable, but not particularly impressive for a twin-barrel movement. Although I'm sure that if R & D had continued on this movement this would have been substantially improved. And would have put many a modern movements to shame, from any manufacturer or brand today. And yes back in the late 1950s 1960s Longines made some fine movements. I had one of the first flagship Longines with the Cal 30L a very nice movement. It went on to be developed into the Cal 340 and its variants up to the cal 345 12-line 19800BPH. But at this time many Swiss mechanical movement manufactures were in trouble because of the influx of cheaper new fandangle quartz watches, and sadly the movement side of the business is now long gone, but not forgotten by some like myself, who was around at this time in mechanical movement history.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by saxo3

I do my best for this thread at least -&gt;
All supporting contributions (no issue or issue) are very WELCOME ...
"but" the objective of this thread is to acquire usable DATA DATA DATA.
Please, quantify as much as you can!

Agreed! Also, my request to sticky the thread was denied so keeping it up near the top through post activity will hopefully help us get more visibility and form a broader poll sample.

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[Mystro]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Agreed! Also, my request to sticky the thread was denied so keeping it up near the top through post activity will hopefully help us get more visibility and form a broader poll sample.

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Trust me, this thread aint going anywhere. Especially if we keep it on track.

[TswaneNguni]

The bit I know about Rolex I learnt on TRF .
I am learning a lot in this thread !

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

The bit I know about Rolex I learnt on TRF .
I am learning a lot in this thread !

Honestly, that feels well as feedback. THANKS

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Might just ad -5s/d ,after fully wound ,dial up for 24 hours .
Checked for three days,but fully wound every day and resting dial up .
It was constantly -5s/day for every day .

Thanks for providing data, much acknowledged.
Can you continue tests without winding every day?
Just do the simple sequence I described in post #97.
You can run this test with several watches in parallel.

[sunnyshineday]

My husband has 2 DJ41’s purchased in October, 2020. They are running fine and he is very happy with them. He checks them every day or two against his iPhone clock. He does not have any diagnostic or technical interest beyond basic timekeeping.
We are following these threads with interest and hope Rolex figures this out and comes up with a permanent fix, sooner than later. Thanks to all who have commented and added understanding and positive insight to these discussions.

[Fenix84]

I'll add my data, not much but its all i have:

Model: DJ41 w/ 30 mark and not ♛
Purchase Date: 2018
Own Duration: ~24 months
Original Rate: +1 s/d
Current Rate: -6 s/d

[Smobews]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Thanks for the data!

How are you determining that it is fully wound? Mine seems to wind forever. Does yours actually stop at some point where the crown won't turn further? I've tried putting it to my ear while winding and I think I might hear a subtle change in sound after some point, but it's very slight.

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I can determine it is fully wound by the difference in resistance when turning the crown. Wind your watch slowly as it comes to a full wind. You’ll notice when the mainspring starts to slide along the barrel wall. It is subtle, but once you get the feel of it, you’ll know.

You can not overwind it. By design, the mainspring will slide along the inner wall of the barrel.

Whenever I wear an automatic watch that has stopped from not wearing it or sitting a day or two, I fully wind it. The movement functions optimally with a fully loaded mainspring.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Fenix84

I'll add my data, not much but its all i have:

Model: DJ41 w/ 30 mark and not ♛
Purchase Date: 2018
Own Duration: ~24 months
Original Rate: +1 s/d
Current Rate: -6 s/d

Thanks for your data!
Would be nice if you could run the test I described in post #97, steps (1)-(4)
Cheers.

[Smobews]

I did the power reserve test on SD43 and took readings throughout the process:

full wind, dial up +0.5 SPD 284 amp
10 hours, -0.5 SPD 273 amp
34 hours, -1.6 SPD 250 amp
48 hours -2.5 SPD 227 amp
58 hours -7.3 SPD 193 amp

power reserve lasted 72.5 hours

Yes there is a 70 hour power reserve, but a mechanical watch isn't intended to be worn every few days. It performs optimally and consistently if worn every day.

Dual barrels would only improve the time keeping if a watch was sitting over at least 12 hours. The second barrel doesn’t start releasing until the first is almost unwound.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

My Sub is less then two months old, and I wear it 24-7, but right now, it is 19 seconds slow for the last 13 days, that works to (rough estimate) 1.45 seconds a day slow. Well within standards and I am very happy.

Originally Posted by saxo3

Thanks for your information.
I assume 24-7 means 24 hours 7 days.
Then you have a kind of "permanent" winding.
Your watch will then probably not approach low amplitudes hence your rates will not become strongly negative, that does not surprise me. Can you do some easy “exercises" for example let it rest for 24 hours and see again how it changes. Data with a timegrapher or an App would be great too. Thanks for contributing in a positive way!

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Sure, I can not wear it for 24 hours.

Originally Posted by saxo3

The following test is useful (for you and others) just in case you have no instrumentation:

(1) Full watch winding, set correct time
(2) Put watch at rest with dial up
(3) Don't wind, move or touch it.
(4) Measure systematically the accuracy, e.g. after 6, 12, 18, 24 .... hours until the movement has stopped (autonomy)

This simple test gives you an indication of the amplitude decrease with time.
As soon as the amplitude gets < 200 degrees (which you don't see!) the rate goes to - "LARGE" s/d.
If that happens in the first 24 hours after full winding, then this movement very likely has an issue.
That test everybody can do! No need of a timegrapher or any App.

So, this is FAR from a scientific measurement, but as stated, I normally wear my new Sub 24-7, and checking every few days or so it is running a consistent (approximately) - 1.4 or -1.5 seconds a day. This is just me looking at the second hand compared to my internet time. I do not have any measuring equipment, however last time I was at my AD he put it on the machine and below are the results.

I was asked to not wear the watch for 24 hours, just let it sit (I am assuming to let it wind down a bit) and check. I did. The results are it was (again just from my eyes looking at the second hand versus my phone) a +1 second. It was on a stand, dial up (actually with my watch stand it’s not completely up, almost at a 45 degree angle, but close to “up”).

I have no idea what this means... but PLEASE don’t ask me not to wear my Rolex for 24 hours again

[Shadow Play]

My Submariner 124060 keeps great time. Power reserve 70 hour+. No issues at all.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

So, this is FAR from a scientific measurement, but as stated, I normally wear my new Sub 24-7, and checking every few days or so it is running a consistent (approximately) - 1.4 or -1.5 seconds a day. This is just me looking at the second hand compared to my internet time. I do not have any measuring equipment, however last time I was at my AD he put it on the machine and below are the results.

I was asked to not wear the watch for 24 hours, just let it sit (I am assuming to let it wind down a bit) and check. I did. The results are it was (again just from my eyes looking at the second hand versus my phone) a +1 second. It was on a stand, dial up (actually with my watch stand it’s not completely up, almost at a 45 degree angle, but close to “up”).

I have no idea what this means... but PLEASE don’t ask me not to wear my Rolex for 24 hours again

Many thanks for your efforts!
Your AD data explain as follows:

From left column to the right column: watch position; rate (s/d), beat error (ms), amplitude (degrees)
Bottom line shows the averages = SUM:6

Amplitudes:
Dial up & dial down: 278, 279 degrees: both values very close (excellent)
All other positions: 249-251 degrees: all 4 values very close (excellent)
Conclusion: this movement has no issue at all, I understand that these data were taken after full winding.

That your watch is running "a consistent (approximately) - 1.4 or -1.5 seconds a day" is given by your wearing pattern, absolutely nothing to worry about. Some owners prefer that their watches run slightly + instead of -, but that's only a matter of taste

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Smobews

I did the power reserve test on SD43 and took readings throughout the process:

full wind, dial up +0.5 SPD 284 amp
10 hours, -0.5 SPD 273 amp
34 hours, -1.6 SPD 250 amp
48 hours -2.5 SPD 227 amp
58 hours -7.3 SPD 193 amp

Very good results, nothing to worry (and you certainly know...)
What is the purchase date of your SD43?

[Rori]

Originally Posted by Smobews

I did the power reserve test on SD43 and took readings throughout the process:

full wind, dial up +0.5 SPD 284 amp
10 hours, -0.5 SPD 273 amp
34 hours, -1.6 SPD 250 amp
48 hours -2.5 SPD 227 amp
58 hours -7.3 SPD 193 amp

power reserve lasted 72.5 hours

Yes there is a 70 hour power reserve, but a mechanical watch isn't intended to be worn every few days. It performs optimally and consistently if worn every day.

Dual barrels would only improve the time keeping if a watch was sitting over at least 12 hours. The second barrel doesn’t start releasing until the first is almost unwound.

Oh so a watch can pass from being plus to minus “second per day” depending on power reserve?!
Didn’t know that. I thought it either go fast or slow.
Good to know, this explains why my SD43 passed from being plus 2 sec to now - 0.5.
It’s getting no more than 10 hours of wrist time per day. That explains everything now.


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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Rori

Oh so a watch can pass from being plus to minus “second per day” depending on power reserve?!

YES, for sure, depending on amplitudes.

[Boopie]

Originally Posted by Rori

Oh so a watch can pass from being plus to minus “second per day” depending on power reserve?!
Didn’t know that. I thought it either go fast or slow.
Good to know, this explains why my SD43 passed from being plus 2 sec to now - 0.5.
It’s getting no more than 10 hours of wrist time per day. That explains everything now.


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This may be a dumb question....but isn’t wearing a Rolex 10 hours a day enough movement to keep the watch fully run and performing accurately? If not, how much? 12?

Also, as for “fully wound”...I wind the crown 20-25 times (I thought was recommended). Isn’t that enough?

I have a ladies’ Yachtmaster, so not the movement at issue, but my watch turns 20 next month and it keeps great time. I’d guess that the power reserve is at about 30 hours, though.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Boopie

This may be a dumb question....but isn’t wearing a Rolex 10 hours a day enough movement to keep the watch fully run and performing accurately?

There is no dump question
You are right, for a "healthy" movement.

[Smobews]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Thanks for the data!

How are you determining that it is fully wound? Mine seems to wind forever. Does yours actually stop at some point where the crown won't turn further? I've tried putting it to my ear while winding and I think I might hear a subtle change in sound after some point, but it's very slight.

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Originally Posted by saxo3

Very good results, nothing to worry (and you certainly know...)
What is the purchase date of your SD43?

Purchased July 2020. Worn every day since then.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by Mystro

If I had to steer this forum in a direction, I would much rather encourage ocd time keeping and movement understanding than “What watch holds the most value” or all the commodity trading that has plagued this Rolex forum the last three years.
At least the by product of movement education is better horological knowledge and experience. Once that is established as a base line, value and what watch to buy will take care of itself without the need to ask.

I totally agree with that!


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