The Greys are the New AD's

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by Gab27

Fair enough, but in that case and if we are making this distinction, it should also be noted that sometimes a used watch is in better condition than a new one.

Yes a secondhand watch could be better than other ‘new’ watches in the case, but if the watch in the case has scratch marks then I wouldn’t buy it as clearly the dealer hasn’t looked after it. I have never seen any watch in a less than perfect condition at any of the dealers I have used.

But we shouldn’t mix up condition and ownership, they are not the same.

[thenewrick]

This might get me in trouble but someone asked how reputable “Trusted Sellers” are. And to give you some information for you to decide, this site is sponsored by Grey Dealers. My personal opinion is that they’re almost always going to be fine with no issues. But I’ve never dealt with them and just wanted to provide that tidbit for you to do with it what you will. Scroll down to the sponsored advertisements below if curious.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by Son Goku

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Greys get brand new fully stickered watches all the time.

Condition of the the watch has absolutely nothing to do with whether its new or used. All Rolex watches are solely retailed through ADs. Only ADs can sell new watches with the warranty running from your date of sale. If a re-seller can provide the warranty in your name, they are really acting as an agent of the AD and in point of fact you really bought that watch from the AD through an agent/middleman. Most watches at re-sellers, actually come from retail buyers who sell them unworn, some still in the plastic, soon after purchase to obtain the best possible price.

[loftycomfort]

Not paying for grey premium is an easy decision for me: because no current production Rolex is worth that kind of money.

Rolex has had numerous opportunities to raise prices to the market value, but they chose not to. That tells me even they do not think their product is worth the premium, and the TRP corroborates with my view because a lot of members constantly say Rolex "knows what it's doing".

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Condition of the the watch has absolutely nothing to do with whether its new or used. All Rolex watches are solely retailed through ADs. Only ADs can sell new watches with the warranty running from your date of sale. If a re-seller can provide the warranty in your name, they are really acting as an agent of the AD and in point of fact you really bought that watch from the AD through an agent/middleman. Most watches at re-sellers, actually come from retail buyers who sell them unworn, some still in the plastic, soon after purchase to obtain the best possible price.

Since the warranty follows the watch and not the name on the warranty (actually no longer is there a name on the card) it matters little if the watch comes from the AD or Grey. The only thing lost is the time between the purchase by the Grey and the watches sale.

[thenewrick]

At the end of the day it’s a trust thing. If you trust all the middle men and reseller then that’s on you. Lots of folks don’t like buying unverified used jewelry. Rolexes are one of the most counterfeited products in the world. There’s massive gains to be had in unsavory transactions. It’s one of those, just don’t do it, things. I’m very risk averse though. It’s just too easy for someone to buy a watch, take the movement out and swap it for some cheap homage movement, sell it to a Grey that is too busy or doesn’t care to check it or can’t quickly recognize a good fake, sells it to another Grey and now an end user gets a watch. And because one of those 4 middle men decided to get greedy it hurts everyone and how many end users are having a trained watchmaker verify their new purchases. Nope. Just nope for me. Don’t care if it’s 1 in 100 I want new and verified and genuine guarantee from Rolex not The Watchman Gentleman Quality Jewelry Expertise and Sales,
LLC formed 2019 on Craigslist.

[2loaded]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

This might get me in trouble but someone asked how reputable “Trusted Sellers” are. And to give you some information for you to decide, this site is sponsored by Grey Dealers. My personal opinion is that they’re almost always going to be fine with no issues. But I’ve never dealt with them and just wanted to provide that tidbit for you to do with it what you will. Scroll down to the sponsored advertisements below if curious.

I'm with ya and surprised there's no rioting/pitch forks and torches over in the sub-forum "Rolex Boutiques"

[bonovox]

[Teksurv]

If you have a grey dealer you feel comfortable with and they have what you want at a price you are good with, great. If you prefer to order via an AD, waiting and all if applicable, great. Choice is also great.

[2loaded]

Originally Posted by Teksurv

If you have a grey dealer you feel comfortable with and they have what you want at a price you are good with, great. If you prefer to order via an AD, waiting and all if applicable, great. Choice is also great.

Some think the reason there's nothing to try on at the AD is because it is going direct to the grey dealer via the VIP flipper.

[thenewrick]

I was a little surprised to see over 120 Pepsi's on C24 alone. There's plenty of stock for all the models for sale. I think we're at that tipping point where we will see these new Grays especially who buy on new credit and are struggling with the interest and balance rollover each month. Prices will drop and competition to unload inventory with big Greys likely holding prices for longer.

Will be interesting to see how many Pepsi's are on C24 around Christmastime and if they're still going for about $21k. My prediction is there will be fewer for sale and prices will be around $18k by then.

For the record I don't really care one way or another with this flipping game. Nobody needs a hype Rolex model so it's whatever. I'm more pissed at crypto farmers buying up all the damn GPU's!

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

I've avoided this thread to date and maybe should have kept on avoiding it. It's an interesting perspective. It kind of implies that the ADs are really the whole sellers. If you get a watch from an AD you've bought it wholesale. I really have no issue with buying either way. I just will only use greys when it's too my advantage (for what ever reason I choose).

Interesting observation but seems very legitimate to see this is essentially what’s happening. It’s not literally but figuratively it’s what we’re seeing.

Originally Posted by 2loaded

Some think the reason there's nothing to try on at the AD is because it is going direct to the grey dealer via the VIP flipper.

Or the grey dealer himself is the vip flipper.

[daveo5]

I haven’t used an AD in years. Used to think that was the only way to go. Then I discovered “Grey”. My buying and selling days are, thankfully, behind me. The idea of waiting one or more years to obtain a specific model is nuts.


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[Plant]

To everyone saying "Greys are middlemen I dont support middlemen", what exactly do you think an AD is?

A middleman is literally by definition: a person who buys goods from producers and sells them to retailers or consumers.

ADs are middlemen

[thenewrick]

ADs sell on behalf of Rolex because Rolex doesn’t sell direct to consumer. They aren’t a middle man in the true sense. If there weren’t ADs there’d just be Rolex stores which would still charge the typical shipping and handling and marketing fees.

Im all about Rolex going online only with no physical stores but I don’t see that happening soon. People like seeing stuff in person and trying things on. Jewelry is often an impulse buy too.

It’s the same thing with car dealerships and Tesla. Car dealerships aren’t technically middle men because the brands don’t sell direct except for Tesla.

[JRell]

Originally Posted by Plant

To everyone saying "Greys are middlemen I dont support middlemen", what exactly do you think an AD is?

A middleman is literally by definition: a person who buys goods from producers and sells them to retailers or consumers.

ADs are middlemen

So what would make no middlemen, selling right out of the factory floor? You have to have some retail setting, which is their authorized dealers. Now if they sold online would love that, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

[TswaneNguni]

Scary thing is if you bought a grey pepsi just after release,it would have been a bargain.Same for white and black Daytonas.

[ShougekiMaru]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

Mhmmm. I feel kinda bad for this forum. It went from Rolex discussion to Rolex flipping discussions and Grey Vendor spam. :(

Part of me feels bad for the Joe “more cash than sense” Schmo who paid over retail for a watch but they’re also likely very wealthy and no need to feel bad for those folks. Maybe Greys should be seen as Robinhood types? But Robinhood didn’t post photos of his Lambo and Yeezys on Instagram. :D

I feel you.
Where is the true passion for watches?


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[Eric-London]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

Rolex should really increase production and prices on sports models. Not sure why they’re being so conservative. A 10% bump in price and production would be a huge profit windfall without any noticeable side effects.

Careful what you wish for. Price increases are coming. When the MSRP goes up, so does prices of the greys.

A win win for everyone apart from watch enthusiasts who have to cough up more $$$$.

[Chester01]

Grays are the new AD and it’s not a debatable point. Walk into your AD for a gmt today no luck, walk into Joe gray and you got what ever you want and then some. No games. Yes you are going to pay a premium at the gray, but the AD will also force one to spend 50-100k on other items you don’t want.

[Ginsu_]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Grays are the new AD and it’s not a debatable point. Walk into your AD for a gmt today no luck, walk into Joe gray and you got what ever you want and then some. No games. Yes you are going to pay a premium at the gray, but the AD will also force one to spend 50-100k on other items you don’t want.

So by that logic it’s even possible to come out ahead by going Grey.

Also, everyone complains about the grey market driving up the price of watches but no one mentions how it creates a ready market to value a collection.

[GST15]

I would rather simply buy a new Omega (or other brand) from an AD, and be certain of it's origin and authenticity, than a grey market Rolex that I may always question, or need to take to a watchmaker to verify. IMHO, no watch is worth paying 2 or 3 times MSRP, but that is just me. I love Rolex, and own 6, but I also own and love brands.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by Ginsu_

So by that logic it’s even possible to come out ahead by going Grey.

Also, everyone complains about the grey market driving up the price of watches but no one mentions how it creates a ready market to value a collection.

Yes, well that aspect is harder to determine. I got my Daytona(116520) after 14 years of fishing and paid MSRP and never paid over for any watch I ever got and never will. Too many other great watches out there. Most people want what they want right now and don’t have the patience and are more about owning and I was content with fishing, keeps the hobby interesting. But like most things in life, it’s not a dichotomous issue the gray brings some blend benefit and some harm to the market, as does dealing with most AD’s these days.


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[1665fan]

Boycott the grey dealers....... they are the problem

[phillipchan23]

Yeah.. Sad reality now days.

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[fogby]

Don't understand the hang up of not paying over MSRP. Obviously the market determines price. Some/many buy from AD's at MSRP, but how many buy from AD without spending/wasting money on other items or waiting a good bit of time.

I remember when I was young and wanting my first road bike (Ducati 900ss). The salesman said how many days did you ride last year? I looked at him like he was stupid b/c he knew I didn't have a bike. Then I got his point. Obviously everyone has a price limit, but time is pretty valuable to me & it gets more valuable the older I get!

Last comment to those who are certain prices are going down: I literally had three friends/colleagues wanting to build their dream house with the last year or year and a half. All said something like, I'm just going to wait for the prices to go down next year. I told them all that I guess their crystal ball is much better than mine! Two are still waiting to build, one bit the bullet.

[Alcibiades]

I am not considering using greys at this time…

1) Current grey market pricing for most sports models is out of whack relative to the value of the watch
2) You can get PM, TT, etc at ADs with a bit of searching and wait, with full five year warranty
3) I would rather get a Tudor or Omega or something at MSRP than buy a Sub or GMT at $15,000 or $16,000 or whatever the current price
4) They market will crash eventually, back closer to MSRP