How to stop the flipping scourge

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by joli160

Rolex welcomes the current situation.
Actually they promote the grey market and made it easier last year by removing the customer name from the warranty card.

Brand has never been stronger

I don't think this is something that bothers Rolex quite as much as it does watch enthusiasts. In the grand scheme of things, this doesn't seem to cause them substantial damage to their brand.

I'm sure ADs want the flipping to stop because part of the solution could necessitate Rolex making more (and them getting more Rolex stock to sell.)

[Ensign]

Rolex are luxury goods; if guys want to flip them, let them. No one has a “right” to own them.

[alphadweller]

We need to legislate, that's all.

[Beto737]

Only thing that’ll ease the access and flipping, is other watch brands stepping up to the plate and making more desirable watches. They need to use better materials, gold on their dials like Rolex does. They need to make more wearable watches. Not too many people need a watch that’s thicker than 15mm, or a lug to lug size bigger than 51mm.

Other than Rolex, if I want gold for the hands and dial of a watch, I have to jump to a solid gold piece or to a much higher priced brand. Rolex uses gold even on their Oyster Perpetuals! I don’t care what fancy name, brands use for their polishing or finishing, if it’s not gold on the indices and hands, it’s not that appealing to me! Retail price may reflect that a bit, but it’s not significant enough to make a difference. Use better materials and sizing, and the people will come.

Did I just say all that?

[inoahguy]

Its inevitable in any luxury industry that there will be flipping... Watches, hand bags, bourbon, even cars(yes cars increase in value).


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[donas]

Originally Posted by Ensign

Rolex are luxury goods; if guys want to flip them, let them. No one has a “right” to own them.

Agreed, better yet, no one has the right to tell someone what they can or can't do with their own property.

[Speeding911]

I consider myself lucky to have the four Rolex I love to wear. All purchased through AD. Their worth has no bearing on how I view them. Same with my 993. Don’t care about value, only the enjoyment. The prices paid to flippers only validate my choices when my bride questions them. 😉

[gerry100]

Only concern Rolex has is losing market share to high end watch competitors at the AD because of empty cases.

Boutiques may be part of the answer

[nivlevari]

I'm not sure if it will work but you can limit costumers to 1 watch in every 2-3 months and if you want to buy another after 2-3 months you need to come with the last one you bought and have a serial num check.
It won't stop the grey market but it will slow it in my opinion.
It definatly will piss some people off.

[Greglaw]

Ok seriously. You think you are going to stop companies from making the fastest profit possible? Seriously?

In this time of greed?

Oh, hey wait, people on TRF want us to slow sales so that…(fill in the blank)…

Really?

[ZDaytonawatchlvr]

1. Buyer doesn't get the box and warranty card until 24 months after purchase. They must bring the watch in to the original Rolex Dealer who sold the watch to receive the box and warranty card.
2. Rolex will not honor a warranty repair request unless it is to the original purchaser within the first 24 months after purchase.

This would deter flippers because the new purchaser would not have the box, warranty card, or access to warranty service for 24 months after purchase.

[Cigars&Watches]

My buddy just purchased a Porsche. He had to sign an agreement that he couldn't sell the car within in a year and if he sold the car within a year of delivery the dealership had first opportunity to purchase it back. If he didn't agree to this, no car.

Maybe Rolex should do the same. If you don't agree to this than no watch.

[bubsbubsbubs]

I dont know if this is the right topic to post in, but it seemed tangential. I had bought a DJ41 from a grey market dealer 3 and a half years ago, and recently just purchased a Batman from an AD. I want to buy my wife a nice purse, and I havent been wearing the DJ that much.. and I figured I could get a new Speedy or pay down some debt with the excess. Would the AD look down on me if I sold the DJ even though I didn't buy it from them? Would they know? Should I just sell it to them? I don't really want to be looked at as a flipper - it got some good usage, I just dont really wear white anymore . . .

[RyanJ]

As long as there is profit being made, you will never stop flipping.

People loved flipping and the secondary market when it benefited them with lower prices. Now the tables have turned for some brands and people are upset.

Just business!

[teck21]

Originally Posted by Cigars&Watches

My buddy just purchased a Porsche. He had to sign an agreement that he couldn't sell the car within in a year and if he sold the car within a year of delivery the dealership had first opportunity to purchase it back. If he didn't agree to this, no car.

Maybe Rolex should do the same. If you don't agree to this than no watch.

Has been suggested but I can’t see how it is practically enforceable on a market as large as Rolex’s.

And motor vehicles for various reasons need a legally identifiable owner in the way a watch doesn’t.

Already can imagine ways grey dealers and individual sellers will attempt to circumvent it. They will be far more creative than I am.


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[teck21]

Originally Posted by ZDaytonawatchlvr

1. Buyer doesn't get the box and warranty card until 24 months after purchase. They must bring the watch in to the original Rolex Dealer who sold the watch to receive the box and warranty card.
2. Rolex will not honor a warranty repair request unless it is to the original purchaser within the first 24 months after purchase.

This would deter flippers because the new purchaser would not have the box, warranty card, or access to warranty service for 24 months after purchase.

Most practicable and enforceable possible sort of action.

Only one way to find out. Would Rolex ever make ADs do it, who knows.


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[t60]

Another day, another thread of wishful thinking.

[RolexSimon]

I think there are a lot of opinions here and attitudes about what Rolex thinks, what ADs do and people's rights.
Whilst I am increasingly aware there is a massive geographical difference between the behaviour of Rolex and ADs in different regions, this is what is happening in the antipodes, backed by evidence:
1. Everyone has the right to flip but the AD and Rolex also have the right to never give you a call for another watch. This is happening to certain individuals right now - certainly in Australia.
2. Rolex do seem to care and want to do something. They do monitor the Grey market. Especially on social media sales where individuals are stupid enough to display the serial number. Flipper details are then fed back to the AD who is politely informed of the situation. Whilst not legally told what to do - they are left in no doubt what is required of them.
3. VIP status is being diluted and as per many other posts on this, there seems to be an unwritten rule for a max of 2-3 watches (only one SS) per year - even for the best clients. This increases availability for others who may be first time buyers.
4. When an individual comes in regularly and is obviously not a "douche" and the AD feels confident they aren't going to simply flip the watch, they are able to obtain some SS models without prior purchase - just may take 6 months for a black sub, a couple of years for a batman / root beer, 3-5 for a pepsi and 10 for a daytona. The reality is your name doesn't stay on a mythical "list" and if the AD hasn't seen you in person for a year or so, then it's probably unrealistic for you to get treated with the same respect as a keen watch lover who pops in every few months. If you turn up, treat the SA or AD in an arrogant manner - don't expect to ever get a call - even for a DJ :-)
5. The reality is that a lot of comments here are unsubstantiated. Flipping is a problem that does detract from the Rolex image and the fact they even made a statement about it proves they do care about that - otherwise they would have stayed silent.
6. Rolex isn't going to massively increase supply for the simple Panerai reason. Same reason ALS / FPJ / PP don't increase supply of Odysseus / CS / Nautilus.
7. I'd imagine more ADs will start to loose their Rolex deals or get reduced supply if they're seen by Rolex to be contributing the problem. There are many more watch dealers who would be really happy to take over the license. This last point is my personal opinion and not backed by evidence.

[Timetracker]

Originally Posted by t60

Another day, another thread of wishful thinking.

Exactly……

1) not really that big of a problem.
2) unenforceable, therefore completely impractical.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by donas

One has the right to tell someone what they can or can't do with their own property.

Before I joined TRF I classed this as a fact. It transpires that it is only an opinion. Although it seems to be limited to a demographic who don't have the things that they want others not to be allowed to sell. I can't help feeling there's a flaw in that!

[mml4]

Originally Posted by seand442

I’m no longer buying the bit about Rolex being against flipping and selling to greys. They are more than enough ways they could have done something, but they haven’t. They've stuck to their demand issue comment and that is all well and good, but when you can’t find a single SS watch over a vast area, ie. statewide, you start to figure out they don’t really care after all.

Precisely-Flipping is their business model!

[RolexSimon]

Originally Posted by mml4

Precisely-Flipping is their business model!

No evidence for this unfortunately.

[77T]

Originally Posted by donas

Agreed, better yet, no one has the right to tell someone what they can or can't do with their own property.

Originally Posted by Harry-57

Before I joined TRF I classed this as a fact. It transpires that it is only an opinion. Although it seems to be limited to a demographic who don't have the things that they want others not to be allowed to sell. I can't help feeling there's a flaw in that!

Harry, did you inadvertently modify Donas’ quote?

He was actually saying no one has the right…just asking in the spirit of better understanding. Not accusatory nor a rant.


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[77T]

For my part, a free market in luxe goods isn’t predatory. If seafood restaurants can charge “market price” for lobster, then ADs ought to be able to do so.

Since Rolex disallows that, the secondary market serves the purpose.

If this was about life-saving pharma I’d be of a different mind (i.e., Shkreli)


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[stap]

Originally Posted by RolexSimon

I think there are a lot of opinions here and attitudes about what Rolex thinks, what ADs do and people's rights.
Whilst I am increasingly aware there is a massive geographical difference between the behaviour of Rolex and ADs in different regions, this is what is happening in the antipodes, backed by evidence:
1. Everyone has the right to flip but the AD and Rolex also have the right to never give you a call for another watch. This is happening to certain individuals right now - certainly in Australia.
2. Rolex do seem to care and want to do something. They do monitor the Grey market. Especially on social media sales where individuals are stupid enough to display the serial number. Flipper details are then fed back to the AD who is politely informed of the situation. Whilst not legally told what to do - they are left in no doubt what is required of them.
3. VIP status is being diluted and as per many other posts on this, there seems to be an unwritten rule for a max of 2-3 watches (only one SS) per year - even for the best clients. This increases availability for others who may be first time buyers.
4. When an individual comes in regularly and is obviously not a "douche" and the AD feels confident they aren't going to simply flip the watch, they are able to obtain some SS models without prior purchase - just may take 6 months for a black sub, a couple of years for a batman / root beer, 3-5 for a pepsi and 10 for a daytona. The reality is your name doesn't stay on a mythical "list" and if the AD hasn't seen you in person for a year or so, then it's probably unrealistic for you to get treated with the same respect as a keen watch lover who pops in every few months. If you turn up, treat the SA or AD in an arrogant manner - don't expect to ever get a call - even for a DJ :-)
5. The reality is that a lot of comments here are unsubstantiated. Flipping is a problem that does detract from the Rolex image and the fact they even made a statement about it proves they do care about that - otherwise they would have stayed silent.
6. Rolex isn't going to massively increase supply for the simple Panerai reason. Same reason ALS / FPJ / PP don't increase supply of Odysseus / CS / Nautilus.
7. I'd imagine more ADs will start to loose their Rolex deals or get reduced supply if they're seen by Rolex to be contributing the problem. There are many more watch dealers who would be really happy to take over the license. This last point is my personal opinion and not backed by evidence.

This is well stated, and I agree. My AD takes this pretty seriously. To lose their status would be a severe blow to them and they are doing all they can to prevent it.

[Emanon]

Originally Posted by Cigars&Watches

My buddy just purchased a Porsche. He had to sign an agreement that he couldn't sell the car within in a year and if he sold the car within a year of delivery the dealership had first opportunity to purchase it back. If he didn't agree to this, no car.

Maybe Rolex should do the same. If you don't agree to this than no watch.

Porsche, Ferrari, and even Ford did just that on the 2nd Gen GT40. Ferrari at one point even had the cars under a lease so they could control sales.

If you really want to fix the issues, there are ways.

[grimps]

6-7 years ago people used to walk into a Rolex AD to try on any version of a watch they was interested in then walk out and go directly to a grey dealer and buy the same watch for 10-30% cheaper than list price.
Now the roles have reversed why would they change anything ?
ADs have never had it so good , selling everything they receive at full list price with long lists of eager buyers