Platinum vs Gold price

[scharnke]

Hey Guys!

I just checked the KG price for platinum 30.600$ and gold is 57.977$.

My question is.
Why is a platinum Daytona/day-date almost double price than the gold one when the raw material is cheaper, what am I missing here?? 😂

[dannyp]

Two things:

1. Labor. Platinum is more difficult to work with and therefore more time and skill are required to make jewelry/watches.
2. Dilution. I believe the platinum used by Rolex is 95% pure, while 18k gold is 75%. The commodity prices are for the 100% pure metals.

[Driver8]

Perceived rarity of the metal I guess.

I remember reading years ago that if you put all the gold ever mined into Olympic-sized swimming pools, it would fill almost 4 pools' worth. If you did the same with platinum it would only cover your ankles in one pool. Not sure how accurate that is, or if it's just an urban myth, but I think it highlights the difference in rarity quite well.

That and Rolex's arbitrary pricing of course!

[joli160]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Two things:

1. Labor. Platinum is more difficult to work with and therefore more time and skill are required to make jewelry/watches.
2. Dilution. I believe the platinum used by Rolex is 95% pure, while 18k gold is 75%. The commodity prices are for the 100% pure metals.

This

[brandrea]

Perceived value, nothing more.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Perceived value, nothing more.

Have to agree and dont forget the weight, being heavier makes it better in some eyes today .

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree and dont forget the weight, being heavier makes it better in some eyes today .

This is an interesting point Peter ... never having owned a precious metal before I can't speak directly to the weight of a watch.

I can say, that I prefer the lighter weight of the 40mm stainless steel references over the larger 44 and 43 divers in the Rolex line

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[wiswrist]

Platinum is more pure (95% vs 75% for gold) and much more dense (so you need more of it to make something the same size/shape). It's also much harder to work with. On top of all of that, it's intended to be more exclusive/special and it feels/looks as such.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by wiswrist

Platinum is more pure (95% vs 75% for gold) and much more dense (so you need more of it to make something the same size/shape). It's also much harder to work with. On top of all of that, it's intended to be more exclusive/special and it feels/looks as such.

Forgot about the density/quantity needed consideration!

[richard371]

It’s perception. A platinum record is greater the a gold record. Platinum is rarer. It maybe harder to work with but doesn’t justify the price difference.

[Tools]

This seems to come up from time-to-time.

Construction materials have very little to do with the pricing of any commodity, especially luxury jewelry.

Trying to rationalize it in any way, or make up reasons, is fruitless.

If Rolex only made a half dozen Day-Dates in ceramic, they would outprice pm versions by multiples.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Perceived value, nothing more.

And, for some reason, buyers are willing to pay ridiculous sums for a platinum watch. Ages ago platinum sold at a premium to gold on the commodities markets so this is a legacy story. Of course, palladium used to sell for 1/5th the price of platinum, but now platinum is the dog of the PMs in terms of price.
The "more difficult to work" argument would imply that steel and titanium watches should have a premium to PM watches and in some cases they do.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by brandrea

This is an interesting point Peter ... never having owned a precious metal before I can't speak directly to the weight of a watch.

I can say, that I prefer the lighter weight of the 40mm stainless steel references over the larger 44 and 43 divers in the Rolex line

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If you’ve never tried on a full Platinum watch, it’s well worth doing. It may not be to your taste, but each time I’ve tried on a Platinum Daytona, it’s blown my mind, even though I know how heavy it is from the previous time! As I say, worth trying just to experience it.


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[S52]

For the "harder to work with" argument isn't stainless steel a significantly harder metal than platinum?

Stainless steel, in its soft, fully annealed state is about 155 Vickers, but at full hardening can reach 390 Vickers, which is 70 percent harder than platinum or white gold.

https://quillandpad.com/2016/12/18/h...recious-metal/

Surely if Rolex has the tooling and machinery to produce cases and parts out of SS then Platinum shouldn't be any more difficult.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Tools

If Rolex only made a half dozen Day-Dates in ceramic, they would outprice pm versions by multiples.

At market prices, of course. But not MSRP. Rolex seem very consistent in not setting MSRP according to hype or likely hype.

[afmars]

Why are some steel Daytona’s worth $17MM While a vintage YG oyster perpetual can be had for less than $30k? Because the melt value has nothing to do with price of the watch.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Token74

If you’ve never tried on a full Platinum watch, it’s well worth doing. It may not be to your taste, but each time I’ve tried on a Platinum Daytona, it’s blown my mind, even though I know how heavy it is from the previous time! As I say, worth trying just to experience it.


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Agreed. I've tried on a platinum day date several times when I was thinking of buying one ... luckily I came to my senses

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[Token74]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Agreed. I've tried on a platinum day date several times when I was thinking of buying one ... luckily I came to my senses

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Lol


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[Mbbgysam]

Originally Posted by S52

For the "harder to work with" argument isn't stainless steel a significantly harder metal than platinum?

Stainless steel, in its soft, fully annealed state is about 155 Vickers, but at full hardening can reach 390 Vickers, which is 70 percent harder than platinum or white gold.

https://quillandpad.com/2016/12/18/h...recious-metal/

Surely if Rolex has the tooling and machinery to produce cases and parts out of SS then Platinum shouldn't be any more difficult.

Hardness is only one of many potential properties that make a material "harder to work with". Ductility is the main culprit with Platinum (source: I have a degree in materials and used to work with these metals).

This topic came up recently in a Platona thread, but I'll link to the same Hodinkee article that I think does a fair job at putting the difficulty of making Platinum watches into layman's terms: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...ry-of-platinum

[amanbra]

So OP platinum is much denser right so to actually make a watch much more pt goes into the watch than gold to get the same volume of the case. This is why the watch is so much heavier than the gold.l version.

PT also wrecks the tools used to make it.

Bijou on YouTube did a good explanation. It’s not purely melt value from a kg perspective to get to the price.

Finally there is perception in the jewellery world of pt being at the top.


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[S52]

Originally Posted by Mbbgysam

Hardness is only one of many potential properties that make a material "harder to work with". Ductility is the main culprit with Platinum (source: I have a degree in materials and used to work with these metals).

This topic came up recently in a Platona thread, but I'll link to the same Hodinkee article that I think does a fair job at putting the difficulty of making Platinum watches into layman's terms: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...ry-of-platinum

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that link.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Mbbgysam

Hardness is only one of many potential properties that make a material "harder to work with". Ductility is the main culprit with Platinum (source: I have a degree in materials and used to work with these metals).

This topic came up recently in a Platona thread, but I'll link to the same Hodinkee article that I think does a fair job at putting the difficulty of making Platinum watches into layman's terms: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...ry-of-platinum

That article explains it very well, thanks for posting the link

[Sothy]

It’s a shame that it’s hard to find watches at stores to try on these days (unless you live in a city with a major reseller). For example, while I prefer YG, I think that I prefer WG to both PG and Pt. But I’d need to try them on more to confirm.

[Michael T]

1) Platinum harder to work with, 2) Platinum Rolex 95% platinum, gold 75%, a 26.7% increase, and 3) The density of platinum is approximately 11.1% more than gold. Together 2 & 3 above dictate 40.8% more precious metal for the same size platinum versus gold.

[eijiboy]

You need more platinum to make a watch compare to gold. you will lose a lot of platinum during the process especially when melting. Gold will lose less compare to platinum that is why platinum is more expensive on watches or jewelry. It loses upward of 25% of its material when you melt it. so if you are making 300gram of platinum daytona, you need 375-400gram total to make it. Gold only loses 10% during the process of making jewelry

[YGRLX]

So I use to have your same train of thought… in fact I preached it. I finally
Understand the difference however. It’s not the metal it’s made out of but the supply of the watch. There is only one platinum Daytona model (with two dial options) and far less are made per year. This makes it more valuable at the retail and secondary market.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Perceived value, nothing more.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by wiswrist

Platinum is more pure (95% vs 75% for gold) and much more dense (so you need more of it to make something the same size/shape). It's also much harder to work with. On top of all of that, it's intended to be more exclusive/special and it feels/looks as such.

[Mifune]

Despite the manipulated price differences, Platinum is MUCH MORE rare than Gold... gold isn't that rare.

[joejet]

Originally Posted by eijiboy

You need more platinum to make a watch compare to gold. you will lose a lot of platinum during the process especially when melting. Gold will lose less compare to platinum that is why platinum is more expensive on watches or jewelry. It loses upward of 25% of its material when you melt it. so if you are making 300gram of platinum daytona, you need 375-400gram total to make it. Gold only loses 10% during the process of making jewelry

Where does it go? I really don’t think this is the case at all, maybe misplaced in fillings/shavings but it does not just disappear.