Jean-Marc Pontroue is destroying the brand

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

In a hobby where keeping the box and papers is considered integral to maintaining the value of the watch having a cardboard box that will never re-enter the production chain sit on a shelf for years with all the other wooden watch boxes is theater at best and reeks of cost cutting via virtue signaling. The Panerai back catalogue is rich with treasures. The worse the new ones get the more interesting the old become.

To be fair, the only people who keep boxes are watch collectors
The general watch buying public either stash them away until their next spring clean or throw them away as soon as they get home

With Panerai seemingly trying to pivot away from Collectors and Paneristi to instead focus on the general public, I understand the strategy

Personally as someone with a closet full of excessively large presentation boxes collecting dust, I wouldn't mind if they shrunk down a little
A big, well made presentation box is nice for the initial unboxing but it quickly becomes cumbersome when you've got 5-20 of them

[Kevin of Larchmont]

I too have 15-20 watch boxes. It’s true you only need them twice, the day you buy and the day you sell the watch, and the rest of the time they just sit. Nonetheless, I prefer a nice presentation box. As for Panerai targeting the general public as opposed to collectors this is the worst strategy ever. Collectors buy based on irrational desire to acquire and not based on need and therefore potentially buy multiples from a single manufacturer. If Panerai moves away from collectors and repeat buyers and instead towards buyers of single watches then they have to generate more customers and every customer has an acquisition cost. Much more profitable to sell multiple watches to one customer.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

As for Panerai targeting the general public as opposed to collectors this is the worst strategy ever. Collectors buy based on irrational desire to acquire and not based on need and therefore potentially buy multiples from a single manufacturer. If Panerai moves away from collectors and repeat buyers and instead towards buyers of single watches then they have to generate more customers and every customer has an acquisition cost. Much more profitable to sell multiple watches to one customer.

Problem is, if you don't attract new customers, your old ones age out and then you're left scrambling for new buyers in a market where you have little relevance anymore as you've stifled your own evolution by trying to appeal to the old guard of your brand
Look at what happened to Harley Davidson, if you don't believe me

[shammad10]

I recently got into Panerai, love the look and design, but the more I read about the movements, the cost cutting, the scandals and mostly the lack of comment from Panerai about these things- or in fact the lack of remorse and seemingly lack of caring the less I want to part with my money for the brand.

I think to myself for the same price point as a new submersible I could have most steel Rolex (with a wait albeit), most Omega, Tudor, JLC.

I can’t believe I’m saying this- but I recently visited a Hublot boutique on a layover in Qatar, and couldn’t believe how great they were doing with their watches, the pride they had in the movements, the materials they used, the innovations etc. This is what Panerai needs to be doing- and without the ‘e-steel’ rubbish on the dial.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Problem is, if you don't attract new customers, your old ones age out and then you're left scrambling for new buyers in a market where you have little relevance anymore as you've stifled your own evolution by trying to appeal to the old guard of your brand
Look at what happened to Harley Davidson, if you don't believe me

Good example, solid point.

[njlam]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

In a hobby where keeping the box and papers is considered integral to maintaining the value of the watch having a cardboard box that will never re-enter the production chain sit on a shelf for years with all the other wooden watch boxes is theater at best and reeks of cost cutting via virtue signaling. The Panerai back catalogue is rich with treasures. The worse the new ones get the more interesting the old become.

This^

[Noxa]

Panerai have lost me totally now, I will never part with my 425 as to me it’s the perfect Panerai, but I’ve been letting a lot go over the past 6 months as the direction the company is taking just isn’t for me at all. Sustainability is just another word for cost cutting with these big companies, the net effect of the changes is minuscule at best and null and void at worst, let’s face it watch boxes arn’t the issue are they… Always an excuse. As to recycled steel, not too fussed if I’m honest, again after the process is it really more carbon neutral, I highly doubt it. Alienate your past and you’d better hope you’ve got a good plan for the future is all I’ll say.

[Noxa]

Panerai have lost me totally now, I will never part with my 425 as to me it’s the perfect Panerai, but I’ve been letting a lot go over the past 6 months as the direction the company is taking just isn’t for me at all. Sustainability is just another word for cost cutting with these big companies, the net effect of the changes is minuscule at best and null and void at worst, let’s face it watch boxes arn’t the issue are they… Always an excuse. As to recycled steel, not too fussed if I’m honest, again after the process is it really more carbon neutral, I highly doubt it. Alienate your past and you’d better hope you’ve got a good plan for the future is all I’ll say.

[JBoone]

Sustainability seems disingenuous at best coming from any luxury brand.

Snippet from wiki
“ The word "luxury" originated from the Latin word luxuria, which means exuberance, excess, abundance”

It takes a good bit of cognitive dissonance to purchase something that you do not need and think that you are saving the planet in the process.

[JBoone]

Double post

[terrywoods]

I’m still waiting for a perfect re-make of Sly’s watch from the auction and the film daylight

Surely a 5218-201/a could be remade?

The PAM01086 only needs better (black) hands and the dirk style strap and it’s there

[jonnythrust]

I would have thought most steel produced in Europe is recycled (far more EAFs than blast).

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

[Travelller]

Originally Posted by rajurama

A fine example of going sustainable without making too much drama...

Now THIS form of recycling I can get behind - the watch on your wrist (may) save sea life

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

...Personally as someone with a closet full of excessively large presentation boxes collecting dust, I wouldn't mind if they shrunk down a little...

This
I have the humongous LE PAM box as well as a PBJ Timex (Peanuts series) cardboard box and everything in between; the most impressive of them all has been my Tudor boxes - beautiful as well as made to last, yet in a very reasonable size

[Widows Son]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

Good example, solid point.

I'm staying out of the watch fray, but I do know a bit about Harley's. Harley has some serious problems. The average age of a Harley owner is about 60, give or take. It doesn't take a genius to see that if these dinosaures (like me) aren't replaced, how long can the company exist. I used to think that the younger buyers were buying less expensive sport bikes from Japan and would eventually get Harleys when they got older. This happened for awhile, but eventually even the younger people stopped getting their endorsements. Harley came out with an electric MC a couple of years ago, it cost as much as an Ultra!!! Over $30,000!!!!! I've had numerous brands over the past 40 years, most recently an Ultra Classic and a Heritge Softail. Both great bikes, no oil leaks and 100% reliable. When fewer and fewer boys feel the necessity to get their driver's license, how many of them want a motorcycle? Maybe it's a generational thing. My almost 12 year old son isn't the least bit interested in motorcycles, things that go bang, or classic cars. He FINALLY started wearing a watch, but only because I found him a digital one on Amazon for $10.00.

[RealMadrid1988]

The baby boomers in this thread whining about sustainability efforts is just…chef’s kiss.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by RealMadrid1988

The baby boomers in this thread whining about sustainability efforts is just…chef’s kiss.

To be fair, I dont think its that people hate the idea of sustainable manufacturing
Its more about that Panerai seem to be compromising their designs and cheapening their movements while, seemingly, pouring RnD funds into marketing in order to convince their customer base that suppling a $10k watch with a downgraded movement presented in a cardboard box is actually a good thing

They seem to have run out of innovation or fresh designs so instead they're trying to grab headlines by investing in cheaper looking, but more expensive to produce materials and letting their watch making skills take a back seat

It looks to me like they cant seem to figure out how to capture a market with innovative or interesting designs so they're trying to grab some attention with marketing material.

Given they've made quite a few marketing errors over the last few years (the Brooklyn Bridge, their "In House Movement", downgrading of the P9001, posting fakes on their own Social Media sites) it looks like it was easier to divert attention away from watches themselves and make everyone pay attention to the box instead.

If you want to throw shade at "the boomers", there is a case to be made that older fans of the brand aren't all that interested in Panerai innovating or evolving their designs and would rather just have constant reissues of the PAM111, PAM327 and PAM507 (I know i'm generalizing)
The Paneristi forum is filled with threads throwing shade at the Due line and smaller Subs because "thats not Panerai"
I'm not sure i agree with that, but it is what it is

That having been said, the eSteel logo on the dial is pretty dumb

[Spartan2009]

Originally Posted by RealMadrid1988

The baby boomers in this thread whining about sustainability efforts is just…chef’s kiss.

I’m a millennial and I think the sustainability gimmick has no place in luxury brand segment. Even Panerai admitted that they will be removing the idiotic eSteel logo in a year or 2.

[joa]

"i am all for sustainability but not when it concerns MY stuff"

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Spartan2009

I’m a millennial and I think the sustainability gimmick has no place in luxury brand segment. Even Panerai admitted that they will be removing the idiotic eSteel logo in a year or 2.

It’s nauseating how many car companies and other products go under the self-righteous “we care” level of advertising. If you really cared and had any sense of dignity you wouldn’t shamelessly advertise it.

[1William]

Originally Posted by Mystro

It’s nauseating how many car companies and other products go under the self-righteous “we care” level of advertising. If you really cared and had any sense of dignity you wouldn’t shamelessly advertise it.

Good point.

[jjvd21]

Originally Posted by Mystro

It’s nauseating how many car companies and other products go under the self-righteous “we care” level of advertising. If you really cared and had any sense of dignity you wouldn’t shamelessly advertise it.

Yes, but the average intelligence of people in this country is close to Neanderthal levels. When 1 in 7 people on earth use tik tok every month and absorb idiocy from influencers it’s easy to see how pushing a sustainable agenda for positive image makes sense.


PAM 177 / 438 / 643 / 1314 / 233 •

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by jjvd21

Yes, but the average intelligence of people in this country is close to Neanderthal levels. When 1 in 7 people on earth use tik tok every month and absorb idiocy from influencers it’s easy to see how pushing a sustainable agenda for positive image makes sense.


PAM 177 / 438 / 643 / 1314 / 233 •

^ agree. Its like the advertisers and media in general are putting on a puppet show for the kindergarten class.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by jjvd21

Yes, but the average intelligence of people in this country is close to Neanderthal levels. When 1 in 7 people on earth use tik tok every month and absorb idiocy from influencers it’s easy to see how pushing a sustainable agenda for positive image makes sense.


PAM 177 / 438 / 643 / 1314 / 233 •

Hey take it easy on us Neanderthals, we still walk among you. Some of us even post on watch forums.