Any thoughts on buying in Toronto?

[bob99]

I live in Toronto, Canada. Back in 2016, before all the madness, I bought my first Rolex (a 114060 no date sub) from Damiani Jewellers, an authorized dealer. I love that watch, and I wear it every day.

I'm now in the fortunate position where I'm able to buy more watches... But it's just not happening. I've been "checking in" with Damiani for over a year. I've bought a watch from them, I've been a customer in the past. But nothing. They have no watches available, and just tell me to "check back." No waiting list.

I've gone to Royal De Versailles a few times, and they also have no watches available. One time, they actually took down my info, writing it on a customer form that looked like a 1000th generation photocopy. Needless to say, I did not get "the call". In subsequent visits, they've just turned me away, not bothering with the charade of writing down my info.

This is not limited to Toronto - I have an office in Montreal, and I used to stop by Birks whenever I was there. I registered my name with them back in 2019, but... Nothing. I was in Beverly Hills a few weeks ago, and stopped by the Rolex store. Nothing. It's frustrating that these watches feel like they don't exist except in the photos that I see online!

In any case, I realize this is yet another variation on the age-old "there are no watches" rant. Any tips on what to do? Should I show them my bank balance to prove I can afford it? Should I bribe the salesperson? I'm not a reseller / flipper. I'm just a sucker who would like to spend large sums of money on silly watches that I don't really need. It's funny how hard it is to do!

[mac_135]

What watch are you currently looking for? I'm in the GTA and have had similar response, even after purchasing a few watches before the market went nuts. I have been able to pick up a Datejust 41, but that's about it in the past 2-3 years.

[Django_]

I've managed 2 get since this whole exhibition only fiasco. Give Raffi at Yorkdale a shot. You'll probably have an even better chance at their Cambridge boutique. My buddy has picked up 6 in the past year. Mind you he's a big spender and a salesman's 'ideal client' he's spent 200k in the past year and still hasn't gotten any SS sports pieces let alone his much coveted Daytona.

They happily sold him a full everose Daytona diamond set black dial though. Not a huge fan of diamond set dials myself but its his second. The other being a slate dial DJ 41 on oyster. What sucks is despite how much he's spent nothing he has is actually that desirable in collector terms or hard to get.

Royal De Versailles are a bunch of clowns. I bought a DJ from them last year and 4 Tudors, all as gifts. They've yet to deliver me a watch for myself. I don't expect them to come through.

I've had better luck at the Rolex only Raffi boutiques. Got a rhodium Yacht-Master in about 5 months with 0 history. This was about 2 months ago.

[mac_135]

The sales reps at Raffi Cambridge pretty much roll their eyes if I even ask about any Rolex availability. I've been on the "list" for a piece that isn't a super in demand sports model for quite a while with no success. Last time I followed up with the rep I spoke with, they didn't even respond to my email (And yes, I stop by in person every once in a while too).

It's funny how the attitudes of some of these AD's change with the market. Knar in Oakville has treated me like gold every time I walk through the door, even though I haven't purchased with them before.

[Nairn1980]

It’s not about affording it, as you say. ADs have an excess of walk-ins who have the money. However ADs tend to have their own preferred and vip clients. Many ADs don’t welcome new clients, as they simply don’t need them.

The tides may change in the future, however.

[shwingus]

Most can afford the MSRP. Problem is can you afford the roughly $100K in useless high margin jewelry that it takes to get the desired SS pieces? These watches are all in stock, but are either already allocated or being used to bundle with jewelry or other not hyped brands.
So in this current crappy market, its either you play AD games or go grey because the chances of getting a sports model in any major city without considerable spend history is close to zero.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by Django_

I've managed 2 get since this whole exhibition only fiasco. Give Raffi at Yorkdale a shot. You'll probably have an even better chance at their Cambridge boutique. My buddy has picked up 6 in the past year. Mind you he's a big spender and a salesman's 'ideal client' he's spent 200k in the past year and still hasn't gotten any SS sports pieces let alone his much coveted Daytona.

They happily sold him a full everose Daytona diamond set black dial though. Not a huge fan of diamond set dials myself but its his second. The other being a slate dial DJ 41 on oyster. What sucks is despite how much he's spent nothing he has is actually that desirable in collector terms or hard to get.

Royal De Versailles are a bunch of clowns. I bought a DJ from them last year and 4 Tudors, all as gifts. They've yet to deliver me a watch for myself. I don't expect them to come through.

I've had better luck at the Rolex only Raffi boutiques. Got a rhodium Yacht-Master in about 5 months with 0 history. This was about 2 months ago.

They’re taking him for a ride is what it sounds like

[Django_]

Originally Posted by shwingus

Most can afford the MSRP. Problem is can you afford the roughly $100K in useless high margin jewelry that it takes to get the desired SS pieces? These watches are all in stock, but are either already allocated or being used to bundle with jewelry or other not hyped brands.
So in this current crappy market, its either you play AD games or go grey because the chances of getting a sports model in any major city without considerable spend history is close to zero.

To counter your point though my good friend is a heavy heavy spender but not a real watch enthusiast. Just a young guy who makes good money and likes them for the status.

After 2 PM pieces one being a YM 42 which is pretty much selling on the grey market at msrp, a two tone SD which is also pretty much at msrp, the DJ 41 and a couple smaller two tone DJ's for his wife he's still at 0 SS sports models.

They made him feel like they were doing him a favour selling him a $50k Daytona and that the SS is just oh so out of reach. That's the perfect client for them, one that they can keep milking for big $$ purchases.

I've spent maybe half on my collection at MSRP but its much more well rounded and 'desirable' overall. I wouldn't be surprised if I got my next SS piece first either. My AD knows I'm not one to just take whatever it is they have to offer

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[Django_]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

They’re taking him for a ride is what it sounds like

Yes exactly. They know he's young has disposable income and wants to make a statement with his clients/friends circle. That's just the type of person the AD's love because they just love the thrill of the purchase.

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[Gobee]

Which model are you looking for? I’m from montreal and got 3 pieces from birks no other purchase history. 1 TT and 2 SS . I don’t know if they sell for people out of town because I tried to register in Quebec City but they told me to stick to montreal.

[brandrea]

Personally I’d stick to the AD you already purchased from. Perhaps have a conversation with someone more senior about your interest (if you haven’t already). ADs appreciate the customer loyalty

[Tim Plains]

You haven't bought enough merchandise for them to offer you want you, and everyone else, wants. That's all there is too it right now. Buy jewelry or several other watch brands they carry to get a Rolex. They receive plenty of stock. They just don't want you to have access to it.

This is just my personal assumption, I think they have some sort of loose guidelines on who gets offered what. Spending $20,000 gets you a Submariner, spending $30,000 gets you a GMT, etc. Keep in mind that the SA you are dealing with likely has to get approval from their manager and maybe owner to sell you a desirable Rolex, so you are essentially competing with every other customer.

Grey prices have come down a lot. Unworn Submariner Dates have been listing for $18,500 CDN more recently, down $5,000 from earlier this year, and one came up for $17,500, although it might have been worn. I'm against paying premiums but that's not too bad to bypass the AD BS. Pepsis were as high as $42,000 at one point and are now in the mid 20s.

I mentioned grey because it's an option but more so since it shows the market downturn here. It will still be challenging to get some Rolex at retail but I think will ease up next year and beyond.

[goldboy]

Montreal has the worst AD’s ever in terms of sports model allocation, for whatever reason the “spend history” bar is very high there. If I were you I’d stick to Toronto and just be persistent with a few of your preferred AD’s, there’s not much else you can do. I also found this resource for best AD’s in Toronto that might help.

[Calatrava r]

Well, the dealer you bought from sounds like a no-go which is a shame. From what is posted in the thread, it might make sense for you to buy pre-owned. The up charges from MSRP are currently declining which I would expect to continue through the spring with current economic uncertainties and rate hikes.

[Chewbacca]

Hire a model to go to an ad with you carrying LV bags and looking bored hot and miserable. Then just say I’d like to order this watch. When will it arrive?

For ads which haven’t worked a day for a sale since 2019 you need to knock them off their mantle and remind them they’re the help and the best buyers are memorable ones, not nice ones.

‘Who was that vanilla local yokel again that wanted that Rolex? ‘ (who cares)

‘I always remember that model that came in with the LV bags. Her boyfriend wanted a Submariner. Won’t ever forget that day. Going to call him now. ‘ (I want to be that powerbroker’s main Rolex ad)

[Giovannibravo]

I think you just need to be honest with the SA. I remember my father placed on order for the Panda Daytona when it first came out with Damiani Jewellers. Back then they were an honest and would tell you how many people were ahead of you. Since 2019, they wouldn't tell you anything about where you were. They started catering to the whales. If you ask them your place on the list now they are very defensive.

I wish you luck with your purchase. If I was you I would ask for a DJ41, SD43, EXP I & II, AK. Something that is attainable.

[Giovannibravo]

I think you should try Knar Jewellers. I heard many good things from them. My familiar has purchased jewelry there in the past. They always treat their customers with respect. My father was telling me he had a very off putting experience at the Raffi Square One. They don't allow anyone in the store within an appointment. He asked to go in the store and they refused. He told me there wasn't anyone in store at the time and the staff was sitting around. The guard were very rude as well. He told me if I was a first time buyer, I probably would have just bought an Omega. It doesn't look good for the brand at all.

[Dyim]

My AD told me they prefer to sell to clients that they already know.

I honestly don’t know how someone new to Rolex can buy a watch these days.

[shwingus]

Originally Posted by Django_

To counter your point though my good friend is a heavy heavy spender but not a real watch enthusiast. Just a young guy who makes good money and likes them for the status.

After 2 PM pieces one being a YM 42 which is pretty much selling on the grey market at msrp, a two tone SD which is also pretty much at msrp, the DJ 41 and a couple smaller two tone DJ's for his wife he's still at 0 SS sports models.

They made him feel like they were doing him a favour selling him a $50k Daytona and that the SS is just oh so out of reach.

Sorry but how does that all counter my point? If anything it goes to further prove it lol.

OP is asking where the desirable models are at MSRP and we can both agree that the AD's have them. Regardless of having $20K or $200K of spend history like your foolish friend, return customers will always be prioritized in the current market over walk ins or people without history.

Now Im sure there is the odd story of someone maybe being offered a desirable model with no spend in a smaller town in a Midwest state or something...but in a major city like Toronto these occurrences are almost non-existent. At least for now anyway.

[Django_]

Originally Posted by shwingus

Sorry but how does that all counter my point? If anything it goes to further prove it lol.



OP is asking where the desirable models are at MSRP and we can both agree that the AD's have them. Regardless of having $20K or $200K of spend history like your foolish friend, return customers will always be prioritized in the current market over walk ins or people without history.



Now Im sure there is the odd story of someone maybe being offered a desirable model with no spend in a smaller town in a Midwest state or something...but in a major city like Toronto these occurrences are almost non-existent. At least for now anyway.

What I meant to say even just buying 100k of useless jewellery won't necessarily get you what you're after.

Case in point my friend...he was always 'offered' this and that. Stuff a lot of actual collectors would shy away from.

200k later still no Panda Daytona and they just keeping feeding him more and more bulls*it while he keeps giving them more business.

So my point is just being a big spender won't necessarily get you what you're after. Especially when they see you as an easy cash cow.

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[Cigars&Watches]

From what I have heard on the forum Canada is a very tough place to pick up SS Rolex. I would highly recommend Knar jewellers in Oakville. They have always treated me like a million bucks every time I go in are very humble and modest and have been very very fair with me regarding Rolex pieces.

[diracpoint]

Originally Posted by Django_

What I meant to say even just buying 100k of useless jewellery won't necessarily get you what you're after.

Case in point my friend...he was always 'offered' this and that. Stuff a lot of actual collectors would shy away from.

200k later still no Panda Daytona and they just keeping feeding him more and more bulls*it while he keeps giving them more business.

So my point is just being a big spender won't necessarily get you what you're after. Especially when they see you as an easy cash cow.

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Man, I feel bad for your friend. It seems he doesn't mind spending more, so he's much better off buying from a Trusted Seller. Is there any reason it has to be from an AD?

[rmwill]

I have a condo in Rosedale that use when we visit Toronto, and I often visit Raffi at Yorkdale. I have not tried to get on any list there because I don't fit their criteria for being local. I did bring a friend in who was allocated a no date Sub after about 6 months. Great people who love timepieces.

[macrowatch]

Spend a lot of time in Canada. It's tough. Almost better to just get luckier in Europe.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by diracpoint

Man, I feel bad for your friend. It seems he doesn't mind spending more, so he's much better off buying from a Trusted Seller. Is there any reason it has to be from an AD?

Exactly. There comes a point where it makes no sense, unless he wants all the other stuff

[sleepydoc]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

Spend a lot of time in Canada. It's tough. Almost better to just get luckier in Europe.

Downer thread

[LegendOfChiang]

Going against the grain here but Royal De Versailles treated me well. I walked in during summer 2021 and kindly requested a Daydate with diamonds. The one I wanted to buy was sold out of the window the week before (someone beat me to it), but 4 months later got the call. I think their lists do matter.

There was a wire issue on my end ($60k was in limbo for half a month) and yet they still held the watch for me and everything. Sales rep were solid and experienced, I think Nancy's been there for ~15 years.

[Giovannibravo]

Originally Posted by LegendOfChiang

Going against the grain here but Royal De Versailles treated me well. I walked in during summer 2021 and kindly requested a Daydate with diamonds. The one I wanted to buy was sold out of the window the week before (someone beat me to it), but 4 months later got the call. I think their lists do matter.

There was a wire issue on my end ($60k was in limbo for half a month) and yet they still held the watch for me and everything. Sales rep were solid and experienced, I think Nancy's been there for ~15 years.

I don’t want to minimize your experience but that piece could have been bought anywhere.


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[mg18]

Originally Posted by LegendOfChiang

Going against the grain here but Royal De Versailles treated me well. I walked in during summer 2021 and kindly requested a Daydate with diamonds. The one I wanted to buy was sold out of the window the week before (someone beat me to it), but 4 months later got the call. I think their lists do matter.

There was a wire issue on my end ($60k was in limbo for half a month) and yet they still held the watch for me and everything. Sales rep were solid and experienced, I think Nancy's been there for ~15 years.

I'm surprised it took 4 months to source this, but maybe they were just waiting to get one, I doubt there were people in front of you waiting for that particular watch.

Also, I live down the street and pop in all the time. They could not source me a sub even in 2018. Perhaps they did not like me, but it likely had nothing to do with a list. They said they would call whenever one came in and it would be first come first served. I guess they never received any subs?

I ended up picking one up for my brother from Raffi in 3 months. Also got a BLRO and DJ41 fluted blue dial, and OP 41 from La Difference Markham. Best dealer I've been to in GTA.

[Cigars&Watches]

Originally Posted by mg18

I'm surprised it took 4 months to source this, but maybe they were just waiting to get one, I doubt there were people in front of you waiting for that particular watch.

Also, I live down the street and pop in all the time. They could not source me a sub even in 2018. Perhaps they did not like me, but it likely had nothing to do with a list. They said they would call whenever one came in and it would be first come first served. I guess they never received any subs?

I ended up picking one up for my brother from Raffi in 3 months. Also got a BLRO and DJ41 fluted blue dial, and OP 41 from La Difference Markham. Best dealer I've been to in GTA.

A recent visit to RDV and was told the waiting list for a sub is 3 years