1680 Help!

[diver2012]

Help me guys!

I have no idea about vintage watches, at all, so please take it easy on me!

I've found a 1680 from 1973 that (to my completely untrained eye) looks very nice.

At some point the RSC has changed the case and bracelet - to me, I don't care. It seems to be best of both worlds...a vintage dial and movement inside a clean case and bracelet that isn't falling apart. But I know this will probably kill the value!

The seller is a reputable one but I know they charge on the higher side.

Can anyone give me an idea of what this might be worth? Or what questions I should be asking...?

It comes with all the original boxes and papers and has had 1 owner from new.

[Dan S]

Beautiful photography. Can you explain how you know the case was replaced? Bracelet is not an issue.

[diver2012]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Beautiful photography. Can you explain how you know the case was replaced? Bracelet is not an issue.

The seller states the case was replaced during a service at RSC and now has a serial 414xxxx.

[southtexas]

Very nice photos, dial and hands look amazing. As you’re probably aware, the insert is service also (sorry if I missed that in your OP).

What an interesting set. May I ask how much they’re asking?


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[btinl]

I'd personally pass on a service case unless the price was very attractive.

[diver2012]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Very nice photos, dial and hands look amazing. As you’re probably aware, the insert is service also (sorry if I missed that in your OP).

What an interesting set. May I ask how much they’re asking?


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Originally Posted by btinl

I'd personally pass on a service case unless the price was very attractive.

This is the bad part...

£21,500. (for those in the US - about $26k...and this includes all taxes etc.)...I'm sure there is some wriggle room though!

I'm going to guess this price is way too high considering the lack of originality...?

The photos are amazing and the dial looks incredible...I rarely like vintage watches but when I saw this I fell in love...I just don't want to fall in love and pay 2x what it's actually worth...which is what I am guessing I am about to be told...

[TuRo]

For me a service case would deplete value between 15% on say a modest 34mm eg 6694/6206 and up to 60-65% on say a PN, JCK, 5517 etc etc...on a 1680 Red still be a 35-40% hit on value so say (just indicative-not absolute values), instead of £27k, be £18k full set even given great dial.

[diver2012]

Originally Posted by TuRo

For me a service case would deplete value between 15% on say a modest 34mm eg 6694/6206 and up to 60-65% on say a PN, JCK, 5517 etc etc...on a 1680 Red still be a 35-40% hit on value so say (just indicative-not absolute values), instead of £27k, be £18k full set even given great dial.

So the pricing isn't a million miles off then.

Would other agree with TuRo?

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by diver2012

So the pricing isn't a million miles off then.

Would other agree with TuRo?

What's the punched paper certificate got printed on it pls... has the RSC put a case replacement note on paperwork - of course if it's not same number, they are somewhat redundant, if so my £18k is somewhat strong tbh.

[diver2012]

Originally Posted by TuRo

What's the punched paper certificate got printed on it pls

I'd have to get some more photos from the seller. These are all I have ATM.

[Dan S]

I can't price this as a full set. The fun of having the original papers is that they match the watch. Without the original case, one can't really prove that the case and papers go together, so I would just price it as a watch without papers. Even if there were a paper trail via service papers, it's still not the same IMO.

It's an appealing example, and you might have to hunt for quite a while to find another dial as nice. However, if you ever choose to sell the watch, it will be difficult. Most collectors will not touch it, and very few non-collectors pay 20k for a watch.

[1665fan]

Service case and overpolished……that’s a lot of polishing

[Swearengen]

Are you sure the insert is service? The pip looks service/luminover but the insert looks reasonably fat font to me.

Originally Posted by southtexas

Very nice photos, dial and hands look amazing. As you’re probably aware, the insert is service also (sorry if I missed that in your OP).

What an interesting set. May I ask how much they’re asking?


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[btinl]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Service case and overpolished……that’s a lot of polishing

I was thinking the same thing. But I have never seen a super sharp service case with nice chamfers.

[albaserver]

What a pity :(

I would pass just for the case...

However, the hands, the insert, the bracelet, the glass and the crown have been replaced.

I'm sorry but I would look for a real vintage one.

[Tools]

Good looking watch, but there isn't a lot of the original left.

If you are somebody who must have an "original" red Sub, then this is not for you.

If you love the look and respect the service and maintenance to keep it alive and usable, it is a very attractive option.

It would not price-out like an all original Red, but do we always buy jewelry with the expectation that we made a killer deal?

Somebody is going to buy and enjoy this watch...

[baumare]

[QUOTE=Dan S;12690756]I can't price this as a full set. The fun of having the original papers is that they match the watch. Without the original case, one can't really prove that the case and papers go together, so I would just price it as a watch without papers. Even if there were a paper trail via service papers, it's still not the same IMO.

It's an appealing example, and you might have to hunt for quite a while to find another dial as nice. However, if you ever choose to sell the watch, it will be difficult. Most collectors will not touch it, and very few non-collectors pay 20k for a watch

I Completely agree! It may looks good but would be a no-no for many

[Filipão]

OP, is the watch in the US?

I'd look for a better one locally, just my 2 cents, seeing it in the flesh is always better, specially on these Reds

[Filipão]

[QUOTE=baumare;12691369]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I can't price this as a full set. The fun of having the original papers is that they match the watch. Without the original case, one can't really prove that the case and papers go together, so I would just price it as a watch without papers. Even if there were a paper trail via service papers, it's still not the same IMO.

It's an appealing example, and you might have to hunt for quite a while to find another dial as nice. However, if you ever choose to sell the watch, it will be difficult. Most collectors will not touch it, and very few non-collectors pay 20k for a watch

I Completely agree! It may looks good but would be a no-no for many

Absolutely no no.

[hutch300]

I would pass - I think you would regret spending so much on a watch that is a service example basically.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by Swearengen

Are you sure the insert is service? The pip looks service/luminover but the insert looks reasonably fat font to me.

Yes


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[diver2012]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Lots to think about - and appreciate this isn't the finest collectors example.

[diver2012]

Originally Posted by Tools

Good looking watch, but there isn't a lot of the original left.

If you are somebody who must have an "original" red Sub, then this is not for you.

If you love the look and respect the service and maintenance to keep it alive and usable, it is a very attractive option.

It would not price-out like an all original Red, but do we always buy jewelry with the expectation that we made a killer deal?

Somebody is going to buy and enjoy this watch...

This is what I need to think about...I could purchase it and actually wear it without worry - it's just a pitty it doesn't seem to be priced accordingly.

[swish77]

With service cases, the RSC paperwork should indicate the previous serial number, hence matching the original guarantee paper, in theory.

However, I'm surprised that's a service case. It's way overpolished and would be an immediate deal-breaker for me.

I might be OK with a service case (depending on the price) because you'd expect it to be nice and thick and in excellent condition. That's not the case here, no pun intended.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by diver2012

This is what I need to think about...I could purchase it and actually wear it without worry - it's just a pitty it doesn't seem to be priced accordingly.

Like most forum members. you can wear a totally original vintage watch with the same lack of worry, and a lot more joy, IMO.

[springer]

I've never heard of a 4.1 million service case. I'd like to see the documentation that identifies this as a service watch. Also, as others mentioned, the case and lugs are way over-polished. I'm skeptical of this set and how it is being represented to the OP.

I've owned four or five Rolex Subs or GMTs in the past with low 4-million serial numbers that were not service cases.

[springer]

I see you have the warranty paper.

What are the first four digits of the serial number?

[springer]

Originally Posted by Swearengen

Are you sure the insert is service? The pip looks service/luminover but the insert looks reasonably fat font to me.

Check the number 4. It looks like a 1980s insert from a 5513.

[TuRo]

All very odd - as the dial fitted wouldn't be correct (or even close - number wise) for a standard production 4.1 million serial number watch !

[diver2012]

Originally Posted by TuRo

All very odd - as the dial fitted wouldn't be correct (or even close - number wise) for a standard production 4.1 million serial number watch !

It's the replacement case which has a 4 serial number - not the original.