Hypothetically…..Rolex, high horological pieces, & Richard Mille

[rmlovett1]

We probably all agree, the RM (traditional tonneau configuration) is a very controversial, hated, loved, etc….brand, and most HH watches are a small niche of buyers.
If you had the opportunity, WITHOUT sacrificing any of your current watches, and $$$ weren’t a concern…..are you putting your money towards the traditional HH route, or giving a RM a shot.
I’m personally looking to possibly add an RM or HH piece. Going HH or RM would be a progression for my personal collection, as I’ve tried most everything else.
I just wanted to get the pulse of the community, as I haven’t seen any recent chat about the RM or high horology market, and the general feel for these watches, post Covid.
I’m expecting this to go a very particular, expected path but, let’s give it a go.

Pics for examples/illustration …..not particularly decision watches.
(Borrowed from the internet)







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[huncho]

depends on what the other options are but RM has a lot of very cool and revolutionary models. might be a hot take but i think they can hold their own against any high horology brand out there. it's not like they're cutting corners in their movements/materials because their R&D is crazy and although they don't come close to the other brands as far as complications go, that's not their goal and the engineering in their watches is incredible so the watchmaking is still at the highest level imo

of the photos you posted nothing beats the AP skeleton for me though

[Easy E]

Either of the three, or comparable, over any RM anytime - by miles. I just don’t get RM, don’t care for the designs.

[GB-man]

I’ll hazard the Patek costs as much as the others combined. With that said RM doesn’t make a watch I would want over a Journe tourbillon.

RM aren’t as interesting. They aren’t as collectible. They are the equivalent of a Lamborghini Huracan on your wrist for better or worse. (As in…Why are you shouting we all believe you’re rich. Calm down!)

If we are talking about spending 2-300k+ Richard I’d be looking at Journe TN, Journe resonance, 5970P or for less a Journe optimum, for more an old brass resonance.

[KatGirl]

I feel very fortunate to be able to indulge my hobby to the extent that I do. I’ve owned a half dozen Rolexes and twice that many Omegas. That’s as far as my pocketbook will stretch. As for High Horology pieces, or Richard Mille, in particular, lucky for me, I have zero interest in either. The reason I love Rolex is their unpretentious classic designs, which haven’t changed much, over the years. I don’t really care much for any of the big three, either. I’d sooner have a Grand Seiko, to add to my large Seiko collection.

Kat


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[ap1]

Just get a ss AP skeleton and be done with it! That’s the one that resonated with me from the pics

[KBM]

I understand having an RM for variety, in a collection with several 200k+ pieces. However, if this is going to be the crown jewel of your collection, I'd much rather enjoy a grand comp from PP, ALS, FPJ, etc.

[RRJ]

Check out De Bethune, Greubel Forsey, Romain Gauthier and other, smaller indies. They offer better value for the money than RM. Greubel Forsey and Romain Gauthier can be had for great prices on the secondary market.

I do get RMs appeal though, their watches just look very cool and extremely unique. Finishing isn‘t really at the same level as their prices are.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by RRJ

Check out De Bethune, Greubel Forsey, Romain Gauthier and other, smaller indies. They offer better value for the money than RM. Greubel Forsey and Romain Gauthier can be had for great prices on the secondary market.

I do get RMs appeal though, their watches just look very cool and extremely unique. Finishing isn‘t really at the same level as their prices are.

Yep. When you buy RM you pay for brand.

Personally, I ended up ordering a watch from Kari Voutillainen as my "end game" big boy watch :)

[RRJ]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Yep. When you buy RM you pay for brand.

Personally, I ended up ordering a watch from Kari Voutillainen as my "end game" big boy watch :)

Huge gz on the Kari! I wish I had the patience for one of his pieces…

Which model are you getting? And more importantly, when ;-)?


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[raclaims]

The newer RMs are really pretty awesome. I love the 72 and 67-02 etc

Just a totally different take on HH. it’s HH that’s super sporty I mean I have a split seconds chrono from RM that’s not basic watch making etc

I love them all really from all the big brands and indies so buy the one that you will love most and wear most often in your lifestyle

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by KBM

… I'd much rather enjoy a grand comp from PP, ALS, FPJ, etc.

100% this ^^^

I understand the tech involved in RM and the cutting edge materials etc.

What I don’t see, are the aesthetics. I just can’t get excited about a watch that doesn’t look luxury (to me) YMMV.

[KBM]

Originally Posted by raclaims

buy the one that you will love most and wear most often in your lifestyle

This is a great point as well. At this level, my view is that it needs to be enjoyed. No safe queens for me.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by RRJ

Huge gz on the Kari! I wish I had the patience for one of his pieces…

Which model are you getting? And more importantly, when ;-)?


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It's an inverse and won't be here for 4.5 years.

A nice 35th birthday present for myself lol

[llngoc]

That was a very diverse set of examples. And the Patek Tourbillon MR is not even in the same league as the RM, AP and FPJ examples.

Since your question is $$$ is no object and it sounds like you want an ultimate piece which ends it all. The Patek example would be the end all piece. If you really want to have an apple-apple comparison from AP and FPJ. You probably should have the FPJ AST and AP Code 11.59 RD#4 as examples.

RM does not speak to me at all. Even some Frank Muller's look even better than a RM IMHO as they are less blingy.

Personally, I would pick a FPJ TV from your list but I am obviously biased.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by brandrea

100% this ^^^

I understand the tech involved in RM and the cutting edge materials etc.

What I don’t see, are the aesthetics. I just can’t get excited about a watch that doesn’t look luxury (to me) YMMV.

One other note with RM is that for a brand at such high average price point, their annual production number is quite high.

[unknown]

RM is BY FAR the biggest bubble in the watch market
That aside I would NEVER want one

[Carguy87]

I like the look of the RM’s better; like it’s a watch I’d actually wear, and for that reason I’d go for the RM. That said, the high horology aspects of these finer pieces are impressive to look at and appreciate.

Looking forward to seeing which direction you decide to go!

[szabo_martin]

Money no object I wouldn't touch an RM, but that's just me.... I personally don't like the style at all. Luckily for RM there are enough ppl who do tho

[HMHM]

I mean…. If money is no object, you would buy all 4, no?
Seriously though, with RM it really depends which model you buy, but generally between RM vs FPJ vs PP vs AP, I know which brand will come last, and it’s certainly not PP, AP or FPJ….

[kunlun]

Why don't you leave brand and model aside for a moment and start instead with listing what is important to you in a watch and what about watches appeals to you?

If hand craftsmanship is important, then you will go a different route than if you choose based on what's hot or fashionable or what you feel people will think about you wearing a given watch.

Maybe overall design is the thing? What sort of style do you prefer?

Or, is horology in terms of the movement are important?

Should the watch keep excellent time?

Will you wear this watch? Seriously! A very thick, tall watch of big dimensions will not be a good choice at all for a daily wearer. Think about it

Maybe there is a complication you like? Or just time only?

Ask yourself these questions and then what you want will be much easier.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by llngoc

One other note with RM is that for a brand at such high average price point, their annual production number is quite high.

Yeah, high margin luxury goods with little handwork. Easy to churn out.

[rmlovett1]

Originally Posted by huncho

depends on what the other options are but RM has a lot of very cool and revolutionary models. might be a hot take but i think they can hold their own against any high horology brand out there. it's not like they're cutting corners in their movements/materials because their R&D is crazy and although they don't come close to the other brands as far as complications go, that's not their goal and the engineering in their watches is incredible so the watchmaking is still at the highest level imo

of the photos you posted nothing beats the AP skeleton for me though

Originally Posted by Easy E

Either of the three, or comparable, over any RM anytime - by miles. I just don’t get RM, don’t care for the designs.

Originally Posted by GB-man

I’ll hazard the Patek costs as much as the others combined. With that said RM doesn’t make a watch I would want over a Journe tourbillon.

RM aren’t as interesting. They aren’t as collectible. They are the equivalent of a Lamborghini Huracan on your wrist for better or worse. (As in…Why are you shouting we all believe you’re rich. Calm down!)

If we are talking about spending 2-300k+ Richard I’d be looking at Journe TN, Journe resonance, 5970P or for less a Journe optimum, for more an old brass resonance.

Originally Posted by KatGirl

I feel very fortunate to be able to indulge my hobby to the extent that I do. I’ve owned a half dozen Rolexes and twice that many Omegas. That’s as far as my pocketbook will stretch. As for High Horology pieces, or Richard Mille, in particular, lucky for me, I have zero interest in either. The reason I love Rolex is their unpretentious classic designs, which haven’t changed much, over the years. I don’t really care much for any of the big three, either. I’d sooner have a Grand Seiko, to add to my large Seiko collection.

Kat


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Originally Posted by ap1

Just get a ss AP skeleton and be done with it! That’s the one that resonated with me from the pics

Originally Posted by KBM

I understand having an RM for variety, in a collection with several 200k+ pieces. However, if this is going to be the crown jewel of your collection, I'd much rather enjoy a grand comp from PP, ALS, FPJ, etc.

Originally Posted by RRJ

Check out De Bethune, Greubel Forsey, Romain Gauthier and other, smaller indies. They offer better value for the money than RM. Greubel Forsey and Romain Gauthier can be had for great prices on the secondary market.

I do get RMs appeal though, their watches just look very cool and extremely unique. Finishing isn‘t really at the same level as their prices are.

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Yep. When you buy RM you pay for brand.

Personally, I ended up ordering a watch from Kari Voutillainen as my "end game" big boy watch :)

Originally Posted by RRJ

Huge gz on the Kari! I wish I had the patience for one of his pieces…

Which model are you getting? And more importantly, when ;-)?


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

Originally Posted by raclaims

The newer RMs are really pretty awesome. I love the 72 and 67-02 etc

Just a totally different take on HH. it’s HH that’s super sporty I mean I have a split seconds chrono from RM that’s not basic watch making etc

I love them all really from all the big brands and indies so buy the one that you will love most and wear most often in your lifestyle

Originally Posted by brandrea

100% this ^^^

I understand the tech involved in RM and the cutting edge materials etc.

What I don’t see, are the aesthetics. I just can’t get excited about a watch that doesn’t look luxury (to me) YMMV.

Originally Posted by KBM

This is a great point as well. At this level, my view is that it needs to be enjoyed. No safe queens for me.

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

It's an inverse and won't be here for 4.5 years.

A nice 35th birthday present for myself lol

Originally Posted by llngoc

That was a very diverse set of examples. And the Patek Tourbillon MR is not even in the same league as the RM, AP and FPJ examples.

Since your question is $$$ is no object and it sounds like you want an ultimate piece which ends it all. The Patek example would be the end all piece. If you really want to have an apple-apple comparison from AP and FPJ. You probably should have the FPJ AST and AP Code 11.59 RD#4 as examples.

RM does not speak to me at all. Even some Frank Muller's look even better than a RM IMHO as they are less blingy.

Personally, I would pick a FPJ TV from your list but I am obviously biased.

Originally Posted by llngoc

One other note with RM is that for a brand at such high average price point, their annual production number is quite high.

Originally Posted by unknown

RM is BY FAR the biggest bubble in the watch market
That aside I would NEVER want one

Originally Posted by Carguy87

I like the look of the RM’s better; like it’s a watch I’d actually wear, and for that reason I’d go for the RM. That said, the high horology aspects of these finer pieces are impressive to look at and appreciate.

Looking forward to seeing which direction you decide to go!

Originally Posted by szabo_martin

Money no object I wouldn't touch an RM, but that's just me.... I personally don't like the style at all. Luckily for RM there are enough ppl who do tho

Originally Posted by HMHM

I mean…. If money is no object, you would buy all 4, no?
Seriously though, with RM it really depends which model you buy, but generally between RM vs FPJ vs PP vs AP, I know which brand will come last, and it’s certainly not PP, AP or FPJ….

Originally Posted by kunlun

Why don't you leave brand and model aside for a moment and start instead with listing what is important to you in a watch and what about watches appeals to you?

If hand craftsmanship is important, then you will go a different route than if you choose based on what's hot or fashionable or what you feel people will think about you wearing a given watch.

Maybe overall design is the thing? What sort of style do you prefer?

Or, is horology in terms of the movement are important?

Should the watch keep excellent time?

Will you wear this watch? Seriously! A very thick, tall watch of big dimensions will not be a good choice at all for a daily wearer. Think about it

Maybe there is a complication you like? Or just time only?

Ask yourself these questions and then what you want will be much easier.

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Yeah, high margin luxury goods with little handwork. Easy to churn out.

Thank you all for the input! These are all great points, opinions, and knowledge…and I appreciate all the feedback!

[PhilLynott]

No judgement for those who own and love RM but definitely not for me. Altho it may just be my personality someone mentioned Lamborgini above and I’d rather just drive my Jeep even if I could afford a lambo. I’m not big into having eyes on me even wearing my rose gold Breguet on rubber gives me pause at times so yeah not a good fit for RM never quite got that world of the hobby.

[fskywalker]

Not a fan of RM, from images above would probably pick the PP but in WG or PT (white metal)


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[tkdgod]

That AP you posted is the one I would choose. I think it’s beautifully crafted and incredible piece

[vliberman]

I much prefer MB&F evo models to RM; if I were to consider top dogs in sport’s category of HH, I would look at Greubel Forsey, MB&F, FPJ, PP, DeBethune and RM (in order listed). I don’t think you can go wrong with either, so choice is yours. For the money, nothing beats Rolex in sport’s category, however not considered HH.

[cy888]

Originally Posted by rmlovett1

...
If you had the opportunity, WITHOUT sacrificing any of your current watches, and $$$ weren’t a concern…..are you putting your money towards the traditional HH route, or giving a RM a shot. ...

I'd go HH if $$$ wasn't an concern, likely a special edition pieces, like those from Only Watch auction.

From those listed, it would be Patek, FPJ, AP, with RM last on my list. Also many other HH brands to look at as others have listed.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by cy888

I'd go HH if $$$ wasn't an concern, likely a special edition pieces, like those from Only Watch auction.

From those listed, it would be Patek, FPJ, AP, with RM last on my list. Also many other HH brands to look at as others have listed.

If $$$ is no object in HH, the sky will be the limit. I would go to one of Philips/Christie's auctions and eat my heart out. I am sure anyone can burn through 10s of millions $$$ in a couple of seating very easily. How I wish...

[MILGAUSS88]

Money's no object, I would not buy a RM.
Alot of other choices in that range from traditional to WTH.