20 March 2024, 07:48 PM | #31 |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Real Name: Travis
Location: FL / NYC
Watch: Yes..
Posts: 33,508
|
Interested in seeing how this gets sorted out. Good luck OP.
|
20 March 2024, 09:16 PM | #32 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: london
Posts: 395
|
Quote:
|
|
20 March 2024, 09:37 PM | #33 |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Carolina
Watch: Rolex/Others
Posts: 47,819
|
You are the owner of the watch unless you were paid by an insurance company for your loss. This is real simple for me, contact your local Law Enforcement Agency that handled the report and provide them with the documentation that the watch has been recovered. They should contact Rolex and verify the recovery and request the return of the property to them for return to the owner. The rest is grey noise and over complicated and unnecessary. I would not have contact with whoever submitted the watch or anyone else other than Rolex and Law Enforcement. Let us know how it goes.
|
20 March 2024, 10:15 PM | #34 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2022
Real Name: Shawn
Location: USA
Watch: 126610LN, VTNR
Posts: 152
|
Good luck. I hope this gets sorted out and you are reunited with your watch soon.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
20 March 2024, 10:19 PM | #35 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Florida
Watch: AK EXP II SeaQ
Posts: 289
|
If you have insurance and reported the theft to them they will handle the entire issue for you. If you didn’t report it they may still be able to help. I would check with your agent.
|
20 March 2024, 10:45 PM | #36 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: london
Posts: 395
|
Quote:
|
|
20 March 2024, 11:08 PM | #37 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Maui
Posts: 362
|
Why would a new DJ41 need servicing? Maybe the jeweler is honest and sent the watch to Rolex as a means to verify/expose the watch's provenance.
OP: I recommend you re-engage with your detective with this new info. The detective will pressure the jeweler to identify their customer, and sign a release letter to surrender their claim on this stolen watch. The jeweler might have insurance to cover their loss. Your detective will score points by nabbing the perp and closing out this case. |
20 March 2024, 11:50 PM | #38 | |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Brian (TBone)
Location: canada
Watch: es make me smile
Posts: 78,169
|
Quote:
|
|
20 March 2024, 11:52 PM | #39 | |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Brian (TBone)
Location: canada
Watch: es make me smile
Posts: 78,169
|
Quote:
|
|
21 March 2024, 12:47 AM | #40 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Texas
Watch: 126610LV
Posts: 283
|
General question for anyone with knowledge on this topic - is there not an insurance product for something like this that grey dealers can purchase? Pay a small premium, make a claim and pay a reasonable deductible when something like this happens if the stolen watch owner provides proof of purchase via bill of sale or warranty card when the grey mistakenly purchases a stolen watch? That way everyone wins and legal action is avoidable.
If true that 99% of watches purchased by greys are obtained legally, I would think this would be underwritable from an insurance perspective, relatively cheap, and a win win for everyone (watch owner gets their watch back, grey gets most of their money back, premiums are reasonable, profitable product for an insurance company to underwrite). Maybe this already exists, but if not and you are in the insurance game, you're welcome! |
21 March 2024, 01:28 AM | #41 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 85
|
If the jeweler or person who brought the watch to the jeweler for service is a "bona fide purchaser" of the watch, then, at least in the U.S., they have as much right to the watch as the original owner. That is why Rolex's law firm is asking you to try to work it out with the jeweler/other owner: you both may have legitimate claims to the watch.
|
21 March 2024, 02:20 AM | #42 | |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Real Name: PaulG
Location: Georgia
Posts: 42,031
|
Quote:
If you are an attorney, citation please. Theft by taking is a criminal offense. Title is usually a civil matter. The principle is that stolen goods cannot be legally transferred - the original owner retains the right to reclaim them. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
Does anyone really know what time it is? |
|
21 March 2024, 03:22 AM | #43 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Real Name: Jake
Location: Slam Diego
Watch: 16233, 116619LB
Posts: 2,322
|
This seems like the move. Get the police to take the watch back themselves as evidence in an ongoing investigation. If that doesn't work, then collect your insurance check & get another?
__________________
What's the time? It's time to get ill. Wishlist: 128236; 16202BC; 5396G |
21 March 2024, 03:36 AM | #44 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 85
|
Quote:
|
|
21 March 2024, 03:47 AM | #45 | |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Real Name: PaulG
Location: Georgia
Posts: 42,031
|
Quote:
We are discussing a US domestic theft, a subsequent recovery in the USA, and a 3rd party who has an attorney involved. Respectfully, the qualifiers you mentioned are not relevant. The OP has the proof of original ownership (the sales receipts and docs). The unwitting buyer who submitted the watch to the RSC via an AD will likely get his/her money back from the dealer (or pawnshop) that sold the OP's watch. Springer provided the succinct answer. I know this because I've done this. My first of 2 recoveries was as straightforward as Springer outlined - to a "T". Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
Does anyone really know what time it is? |
|
21 March 2024, 04:16 AM | #46 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lakeville, MN
Watch: 126610LN Finally!
Posts: 418
|
I don't like the grey market as much as the next guy but I don't see why the grey dealer is at fault here. Sounds like this is pretty standard.
|
21 March 2024, 04:34 AM | #47 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: America
Posts: 715
|
Sounds like the “other party” is trying to share his misfortune of coming into possession of a stolen watch with you. Or worse, “the other party” was involved in the crime and is trying to get something out of the situation.
|
21 March 2024, 08:34 AM | #48 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2012
Real Name: Grant
Location: NZ
Watch: Moon
Posts: 1,719
|
Something very similar happened to me a few years ago, and I've posted here about it.
In short, I bought a Rolex from a European seller. Shortly after it arrived I sent it in to RSC Dallas for servicing. Not long after that I received a letter from Gibney, Anthony, & Flaherty stating that the watch had been reported stolen some years earlier, and that because there were now two claimants to the watch (me, and the insurance company that reimbursed the owner who reported it stolen) we were urged to resolve the issue of ownership amongst ourselves. The letter went on to say that IF we could not resolve the question of rightful ownership, Rolex would sue both of us, in order to bring the case in front of a court to decide ownership. The takeaway, and what is key for the OP to understand, is that Rolex cannot and will not decide the question of legal ownership. That is a question that only a court of law can settle. I would urge the OP to decline a meeting a with the other claimant, and demand that the issue be brought to court. If the OP has the proper documentation to prove both ownership and the police report indicating he was the victim of the watch's theft, it should be very quick and easy for the court to decide that he is the rightful owner. All the best, -GW |
21 March 2024, 08:49 AM | #49 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Posts: 614
|
They aren’t shady just because they bought a watch with no papers
__________________
Watches: More than I need, not as many as I want. |
21 March 2024, 11:09 AM | #50 |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: NJ, USA
Watch: Hulk, BLRO
Posts: 1,644
|
So what happens when you get your watch back, release the insurance claim (if there was one) and it turns out the movement has been altered?
|
21 March 2024, 11:54 AM | #51 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Brazil
Posts: 215
|
|
21 March 2024, 06:28 PM | #52 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: SF Bay Area
Watch: Submariner 14060M
Posts: 193
|
Quote:
Corrupt judges? I think you've read one too many tinfoil hat websites, buddy |
|
21 March 2024, 07:54 PM | #53 | |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Real Name: Travis
Location: FL / NYC
Watch: Yes..
Posts: 33,508
|
Quote:
|
|
21 March 2024, 08:00 PM | #54 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: World
Watch: 16750
Posts: 2,733
|
Quote:
bs! You confuse the legal part ( stolen goods never become the legal property of the next owner, bona fide or not) with the criminal aspect ( when you purchase „bona fide“, you can‘t be charged for owning stolen goods) |
|
21 March 2024, 08:16 PM | #55 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Watch: RolexPatekCartier
Posts: 2,414
|
lea.diluca@rolex.com is the NYC RSC service associate that sends Rolex Forms for US Missing Watch reporting.
Keep us posted butI would reach out the detective in your case.
__________________
PP5167r; PP5153r; PPNautilus 7118r; PP3733-YG; DD40 RG/Sundust; DD40YG/White/Roman;DD40 WG/Olive;Daytona RG;Sub Black YG; Daytona Panda; Celebration 41; GMT-II’s: Left VTNR; GRNR; Batman; SkyDweller SSJubilee/Black; SUB no-date; Oysterquartz SS; DJ SS 36mm’87; Cartier-Roadster YG;Santos YG; Panther YG; Tank’73 YG, Tank Must ‘23;BulgariBB38mm/YG |
21 March 2024, 08:37 PM | #56 |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Real Name: Tom
Location: Mandeville La
Watch: 126333
Posts: 10,667
|
This reminds me of squatters taking over homes..
New York for instance, protects all squatters after 30 days of squatting.. they can even change the locks on a home they stole.. Anyway, you are on an egg timer it seems OP prior to them returning the watch. Best of luck |
21 March 2024, 09:24 PM | #57 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Posts: 614
|
Either that or he’s been watching the news
__________________
Watches: More than I need, not as many as I want. |
22 March 2024, 01:43 AM | #58 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 210
|
That is an unfortunate process to go through. Our home was recently burglarized and our entire watch collection was stolen. They did not take any of the boxes/papers/receipts.
All of the watches/serials for Rolex and other watches were reported to Rolex USA database as stolen and many other jewelers databases and international databases. My wife even paid for an international database that covers Europe as well. I also emailed a dealer on here with all the serials for the watches to be on the lookout as these watches are stolen. No reputable/trusted dealer should be selling stolen watches. This exposes them to a big liability I would think. My understanding from the police detective is that anything serialized sold at a pawnshop needs to be entered into a database that is checked by police as well. We provided all of the stolen items/watches and serial numbers in an itemized list to the police, as this is a supplemental form part of the police report. So they do have this on file. Either way if there is any dispute about who the owner is I would report it to the police detective to deal with it. No one should have claim to an item that was stolen. My only hope if the watches ever turn up, whoever these lowlife burglars are can be tracked and brought to justice. |
22 March 2024, 02:35 AM | #59 | |
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 43,516
|
Quote:
This does not give the second purchaser a right to the property, only that a crime has not yet been committed by them. It also does not give the second purchaser a right to claim recovery of their cost from the rightful owner.
__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member |
|
22 March 2024, 05:47 AM | #60 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: North America
Posts: 87
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.
ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX